Lease Questions - Ask Here

silsby · July 2003

I am leasing a 2001 Nissan Altima and the lease ends in December 2003. In July 2003, the dealership made an offer to sign me up for a new lease (a 2003 model) and quoted me a monthly payment price of approximately $270. I currently am paying the same price so it sounds like a good deal. How can I be sure I'm getting a good deal? Should I wait to lease a 2004 model?

I am not familiar with residual prices; can you explain in detail what this is and how I can find out what the residual price is on a 2003 vehicle.

I recently read something about the leasing of vehicles not being allowed in Connecticut; something about Vicarious Violation Laws steming from an accident victim suing the owner of a leased vehicle; the owner being a financing corporation. Can you give me additional information about this?

Thanks!

Silsby

silsby · July 2003

The negotiated selling price for the 2003 Nissan Altima was approximately $22,000.

tonys44 · July 2003

The negotiated selling price is $27, 984, but that was not the figure used in the lease calculation. They used a number higher than the msrp to get the residual up and the payments lower. Using Toyota leasing was also an option but the payments there were over $65 more per month. The negotiated selling price was used as the basis for the Toyota Lease calculation.

Hope that helps.

Thanks,

Tony

cupie9 · July 2003

I have a 2002 Nissan Altima SE, and just over three years remaining on my lease. I have wanted an Acura TL for years, and I know they are very affordable right now.

Out of curiousity, I went to my local Acura dealer to see if a deal was feasable. I was told it would cost about $6,000 out of pocket to make it happen.

Does anyone know if that $6,000 could be rolled into the TL, or is that separate from what would have to rolled into the Acura? As you can tell, I know nothing about these things.

911c4 · July 2003

hi Car_man,

I was at a Porsche dealership and was looking for a 2003 911 coupe with tiptronic. I was quoted mf 0.0028 and residual at 53% for a 3 years/36K lease from Porsche Credit. Do the number sound right?

Also, when the 2004 911s arrive, will the residual value for 2003 be even lower? And, what kind of residual value the 2004 will have? I am trying to decide if I should wait for the 2004 model or not

Thanks in advance,

CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

Hi everyone. I have been out of town since Friday. As a result, I haven't answered anyone's questions on leasing in several days. I am going to try to post answers to everyone's questions by the end of the day. Thanks for your patience.

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viper0074 · July 2003

Thanks for your quick response to my question over in the Acura TL lease forum.

CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

You're welcome, viper0074. I am glad that I was able to help you out.

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mxpro738 · July 2003

Car_man:

I know there are no hard facts yet, but I'm looking for your insight and best guess.

Is it plausible, or even likely, that BMW will offer any cash-back incentives on the 3-series in August? The factors I see are:

- '04 models arriving in September
- Strike in Germany? (I heard something about the production line being shut down???)
- Is there a surplus of 3-series out there?
- 5-series just has a nice incentive program that worked.

Thanks in advance!

viper0074 · July 2003

Hello Peter. I am familiar with the advertised Acura TL lease that you mentioned in your post. This $329 per month lease (for 36 months with $999 down) is based on a 2003 TL with an MSRP of $29,480 and a capitalized cost of $27,464. The lease money factor that was used to arrive at this payment is .00092. If you have any more questions about specific leases, please post them over in the Lease Questions - Ask Here discussion. Thanks.

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Car_man,

Are you supposed to subtract the 999 downpayment from the cap cost of 27,464 before starting the calculations that lead you to a monthly payment of 329?

I'm asking because 27,400 is about 500 above invoice, which seems like a good price to pay for the TL.

However, if what I'm paying is actually the 27,400 + 1000 down, then 28,400 seems to be more than I should be paying.

Thanks,

Peter

viper0074 · July 2003

And, thanks for the heads-up on the better pricing.

Peter

kyfdx · July 2003

I may be a little off.. I was refiguring.. I think the cap cost takes into account the $999 downpayment, but also the acquisition fee, which I think is $550 through Honda finance. So, the actual selling price is about $450 higher than the cap cost. I'd say that gives you about $900-1000 more to work with on that lease. That doesn't mean you can find an Acura dealer that will do it. I'm sure CARMAN will correct me, if I'm wrong..

regards,
kyfdx

surfsupp · July 2003

Hi Carman,

First time caller, long time listener. I've always found your help very useful here on the board and wasn't able to find much info on the VW Touareg.

I am wondering if you had the numbers on a 36 month lease for:

- 2004 volkswagen touareg v6 residual and mf for 15,000 mi?

- 2004 volkswagen touareg v8 residual and mf for 15,000 mi?

also, i'm having an impossible time deciding whether to lease with little to no money down on a touareg at msrp or to trade in my grand cherokee (est. $10,000) and purchase the vehicle. do you have any advice as to what would be the better move?

thanks so much for your help in advance!!

viper0074 · July 2003

There is no acquisition fee in this lease program. There is a security deposit in addition to the $999 down, but dealer is willing to waive that.

I have avoided leasing in the past, but the boss (aka the wife) wants to lease a TL. Hopefully, like you said, Car_man can shed some light.

Thanks,

Peter

djdez · July 2003

Well, I'm still undecided on what I'm going to do about the TSX, but my dad just informed me that he wants to LEASE something for a few years before he retires ... he ONLY wants to do 3 years and 12,000 miles per year, and is interested in the following cars .. so, I'll be asking for residuals and money factors for the following:

- 2003 Hyundai Sonata GLS or LX V6
- 2003 Honda Accord LX-V6
- 2003 Nissan Altima SE 3.5 V6
- 2003 Mercury Grand Marquis GS

Don't worry about the pricing, as they are ALL under invoice -- I just need the residuals and money factors !!! I'm sure Hyundai will be the worst, since almost NO ONE leases a Hyundai .. but he doesn't want to buy anything right now, just lease for a few years.

THANKS AGAIN .. what would we ALL do without you Car_man !!!

ash213 · July 2003

I am trying to decide between leasing (3yr/12,000 miles) or buying an Acura TL 2003, please guide. Thanks.

joegolfs · July 2003

CarMan, glad you were able to get away for the weekend. I love your sight and would like to be patient for my response, however, I am scheduled to meet with the Infiniti dealer this evening. Was wondering if you could put my request near the top of the pile.

Anyway, I am looking at leasing an M 45. The MSRP on the vehicle I like is 49,155. Totally loaded including Nav. My zip code is 01923. I would like to lease for 36 months at 20,000 mile per year with nothing down but fees and first payment. I know, through your sight, that Infiniti is offering some great deals. Can you enlighten me on what I should be paying?

Sorry for being impatient.

jimshade · July 2003

Carman (and others):

I have gotten the following information on a TSX lease and was wondering if it is a good deal:

2004 TSX automatic w/o navigation
$0 down
~$800 upfront (fees, license, reg)
$384.11/month including all taxes

12K miles per year and a 36 month lease.

Thanks.

defy · July 2003

Hello to everyone;

I am in the process of opening a business. As such, I am looking towards either financing (2003 model year)or leasing (2004 model year)an Audi A4 Avant. I have CDN$15,000 to use for down payment.

Here is my scenario and would like to receive some feedback on my thoughts.

The car in question is an Audi A4 Avant Quattro.

Financing:

Net price for the 2003 model year is $45,000. If financed for (60) months my payments will be CDN$690.51.

Leasing:

M.S.R.P. is 46,000. With a down payment of CDN$12,000 my payments (48) will be in the neighborhood of CDN$481.14. This is NOT the "final" bargained price so I should be able to lower my payments a few more dollars. Residual value of vehicle after these (48) months stands at CDN$18,840.
*This also includes "extra" mileage allowance to 35.000 kilometers as opposed to the 25.000k restriction.

What I "thought" is to lease, due to the lower payments, and while leasing I would put $150.00 in an Audi payoff account per month. This would add up to CDN$7200 (+interest) which would help me to pay down the residual balance.

My question to you is am I making sense with this?

Thank you kindly for your replies.

Defy

clpurnell · July 2003

don't know about canada but here in the usa businesses can write off nearly 100% of lease value. If this is true in canada put "0" down and lease the car. write it all off save your 15k and by the time the lease is up you can buy it outright. my .02

CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

Wow, djdez, it certainly sounds as though the company that you are leasing your current car through is more than willing to work with you on its lease-end purchase price. Good job at giving them a call to see what they would be willing to do for you. You're welcome and make sure to come back and let us know how everything turns out.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

Hi cwiginton. Looking at the quote that you were given for this 2003 BMW 325i, it certainly appears as though they are attempting to mark-up BMW FS' base lease money factor to make additional profit on your deal. This car's base money factor should actually be .00150 right now. The selling price that you were quoted for this car looks fine though. Interestingly enough, $33,000 is the exact TMV that Edmunds.com currently has listed for a 2003 BMW 325i. This means that this is a fair price, but it probably can be beaten by doing some comparison shopping.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

You're welcome, Ryan. I am glad that you enjoy this discussion so much.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

Hey bimmaboy23. Interestingly enough, neither of the dealers that you spoke with it completely telling you the truth. Assuming that you are talking about the 2003 BMW 330i, BMW Financial Services' base lease money factor for this model is currently only .00120 for 3 year leases.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

No problem, thillix. I am glad that I was able to help you out.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

Hi marku22. BMW Financial Services' base lease money factor for all 2004 3-Series models is currently only .00205, not the .00225 that you were quoted by your salesperson. This I am positive about. Also, though I am not absolutely positive, I believe that BMW FS only adds .00100 to its factors for consumers who want to have their security deposits waived, not the .00150 that you were told. I'm not sure what BMW's standard retail financing rates are at this time, but there is a very good change that they don't matter because they can be beaten by a number of unaffiliated banks.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

Hello joegolfs. I would be more than happy to calculate a sample lease payment on this car for you. However, I first need you to tell me what its selling price is. Infiniti Financial Services only publishes residual values for leases of up to 15,000 miles per year. If you wish to lease a vehicle through it with a higher mileage limit than that, you will likely have to purchase additional miles on a per mile basis. Doing so at the beginning of your lease will cost less money than waiting to pay an excess mileage penalty at the end of your term.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

You're very welcome, jimshade. I am glad that I was able to help you out. Enjoy your new ride.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

Hi ocrx66. Even though Ford's incentives vary somewhat by region, in all of the areas that I have seen, the incentives that you were quoted on the 2003 Lincoln LS look to be right on the money. For some reason Ford is excluding the 100A trim level from most of this car's incentives. If you are going to lease an LS right now, I personally would go with the LS Premium V6. As far as the Mercury Mountaineer goes, in most areas, Ford is providing $2,500 lease cash and lease rates of less than 1% on it.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

Hi snow_boarder. Even though it is somewhat expensive, I absolutely love the Volkswagen Touareg. VW did an outstanding job with this truck. At least it is less expensive than the Porsche Cayenne, its sister model. I would be more than happy to calculate a sample lease payment on any Touareg that you would like, but first I need you to provide me with an MSRP and selling price. Also, just in case you are not completely sold on leasing, on July 9th VW introduced a new special financing program on this truck that provides 3.75% for up to 60 months. Even though this is not the lowest interest rate in the world, I find it very surprising that VW would offer any sort of special promotion on such a new, impressive model.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

Greetings, max63. Toyota's lease programs vary by region. If you let me know what state you plan on leasing this model in I should be able to provide you with more accurate information on what its current lease program should be like. Thanks.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

Hey normalo. Here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2003 Mercedes-Benz E320 Sedan through Mercedes-Benz Credit Corp. this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00275 and 62%, respectively. If you were to lease a 2003 BMW X5 3.0L through BMW Financial Services this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00100 and 58%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

Hi Tony. You left one very important number out of your post, this car's selling price. This is a very important number to know when leasing because it tells you exactly how much money you are paying for the car or truck that you are getting. Not only that, but it is necessary to calculate a monthly lease payment. If you let me know what this car's selling price I, I would be more than happy to tell you what I think of your deal. Talk to you soon.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

Hi silsby. While getting a brand new car that has the same monthly lease payment as your current leased vehicle certainly sounds attractive, it is difficult to evaluate the deal that you were quoted without a little additional information. What model Altima are you planning on leasing. What is its full MSRP and selling price? If you can provide me with those three pieces of information, along with how long you plan on leasing it for and how many miles per year you want your lease to allow I can tell you exactly how much money it should cost you to lease the car that you are interested in at this time. I also would be more than happy to give you an idea of what this car's lease money factor and residual value should be like, but again I need you to provide me with a few more details on this transaction. For a detailed explanation on what these numbers mean and how leasing works, make sure to check out the following helpful articles: Leasing Glossary, 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car, and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.

Many banks have ceased leasing vehicles in the states of Connecticut, New York, and Rhode Island because the vicarious liability laws that exist in those states leave them open to frivolous lawsuits if one of their lessees is in an accident. However, I do not believe that Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. has stopped doing business in those areas yet. Plus, lately I have heard that new laws are in the works in Connecticut that will eliminate this problem.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

Thanks for the additional information, Tony. Unfortunately what you were told does not make any sense. The lower the selling price of this car is, the lower your monthly lease payment will be. I am not surprised though that you were able to get a lower lease payment by running this car's lease through a bank other than Toyota Financial Services. I do not believe that Toyota is providing any sort of lease support on the Avalon this month. According to my calculations, if you were to lease the car that you described through them right now for 39 months with 12,000 miles per year, your pre-tax monthly lease payment with $1,316 down would be right around $436 or so. So it does indeed look as though you can do better by leasing through Haan.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

Hello cupie9. I am sorry to say that there is a very good chance that it will indeed cost you thousands of dollars to get out of your leased Altima three years prior to your scheduled termination date. There is an excellent article on how to get out of leases early here at Edmunds.com. The following quote from it sums up your options nicely:

"1. How do I get out of my lease before the contract has expired?

In some cases, your financial picture might change unexpectedly and suddenly you can't afford those sky-high payments on a BMW 528i. In another common scenario, you lease a fun little Mazda Miata one year, then the next year you and your spouse have a baby. You're desperate to get into a bigger car, but you don't want to take a financial bath. What to do?

According to Shebesta, you still have some options:

Find someone to assume the lease. Call the leasing company and ask if they allow 'assumptions.' Make sure you locate a new lessee who is credit worthy. Expect to pay a fee to do the assumption  about $300. Check to make sure the mileage is appropriate for this point in the lease. And also make sure you provide the car in good condition so the new lessee isn't taking over hidden problems.

Sell the car yourself. Call the bank and ask for the current buyout amount. Once you get that number, look at the Edmunds.com True Market Value® price for a private party. Make sure to adjust the figure for mileage, color, options and region. If the current market value is close to the buyout number, try to sell the car yourself and pay off the bank. Even if you have to take a $1,000 or $2,000 loss, you are better off than continuing the payments or walking away from the car. Remember, in addition to your lease payment, there are insurance payments, too. (Note: Sales tax can cause a problem if you buy the car, then have to resell it immediately. The bank may help you by arranging to transfer the title directly to the new owner. A dealer might also help you arrange this transaction, but they will want reimbursement for their trouble.)

Turn in the keys and walk away from the lease. This isn't a good option. If you give the car back to the lessor, and walk away, it will go on your credit report as a 'repo.'"

Selling this car on your own or trading it in is probably your most realistic option at this time. If you decide to go this route and are indeed several thousand dollars upside down, you may have a tough time rolling all of that negative equity into your next lease. Many banks will not allow consumers to finance more than the full MSRP of the vehicle that they are leasing. So for instance, if you were able to negotiate a $2,000 discount off of the MSRP of an Acura TL that you were planning on leasing, you would only be able to roll $2,000 in negative into your lease and would have to pay the rest out of your own pocket.

Even though I don't know all of the specifics of your deal, like what your car's current purchase price or value are I personally think that it would be a very bad idea to try to trade out of your leased Altima with this much time remaining on your contract.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2003

Hi 911c4. I haven't seen the new residual values for the 2004 Porsche 911 yet. However, I can tell you that if you were to lease a 2003 911 Coupe with Tiptronic through Porsche Credit for three years with 12,000 miles per, its current base lease money factor and residual value should be .00250 and 52%. It sounds to me as though the dealer that you are working with is marking up Porsche's base money factor to add a little hidden profit to your deal. This is not surprising, especially with a Porsche dealer. It is indeed very likely that the residual values for Porsche's 2003 models will drop once the 2004s hit showrooms, but I doubt that the initial hit will be more than 2%.

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cwiginton · July 2003

Thanks for your help Car_man. One further question -- can you give me some clarification on the current multiple security deposit program for BMWFS. My salesman told me that he thought you could put down 9 MSDs but that he wasn't sure. Seems like I remember reading something about that changing.

Thanks for your help.

mzinzi · July 2003

Hi Car_Man...

Can you get me lease numbers for July for a 2003 Lexus IS300 5-speed???

12,000 miles
36,39,42 months

If you could get me the MF and Residuals, that would be awesome!!!

Thanks Car_Man!!!

marku22 · July 2003

cwig,

BMW's MSD program prior to July 1 allowed you to make 10 MSD's and effectively "buy down" the rate by .0001 per deposit. The new program now in effect not only cut the number of allowable deposits in half, but also the rate reduction per deposit (5 MSD, .00005/MSD)

It WAS a great program. Now not so. ANY salesman should have known the new program. bimmerfest.com has some good info

marku22 · July 2003

I was always under the impression that convertibles had different money factors than the coupes and sedans. I will definitely confront the dealer(s) on it.

BTW, the "rate adder" quoted was .00015 when no security deposit is made.

cpisano · July 2003

Hello car man. Can you get me the lease numbers for a 2003 Tahoe LT 2WD. I'm looking for 12000 miles a year and four years.

jmayhall · July 2003

I am being offered a 42 month lease on a appx. $47000 (full list) Sequoia LTD.

Cap cost: 43,218
21.1 residual
.00015 money fac.

The best offer so far is $1,500 down @ $652/month. Mileage is 12K per year. I am thinking this is a pretty solid offer - any opinions?

tonys44 · July 2003

Thanks Car Man. When the payment was figured using Toyota Leasing, the Dealer came up with around $485 per month with the tax added into the monthly payment. Way high! I was told there that increasing the price of the car in the computer program that they used, would cause the residual to go higher and thus lower payments. They even showed me this by plugging in lower numbers for the selling price, which resulted in higher monthly payments. This could be just a razzle-dazzle scheme to confuse the buyer too! In any event, I was not too keen on the Haan offer either. A bank fee of $895 plus a disposition fee of $395 at lease end seem kind of excessive. I'll keep looking.

Thanks for the information and your help.

Tony

shayna · July 2003

Carman, My BMW dealer told me that the lease acquisition fee is going up to $800 beginning August 1. Can you please verify this. Thanks

hartt · July 2003

Hi Car_man. Thank you for the valuable information you provide.
Would you please give me the lease numbers for July on a 2003 4Runner SR5?

I am looking at leasing for 3 years with 15,000 miles a year.
Thanks.

"T"

bsagin · July 2003

'03 325i cap cost $34,835.00..residual 54%..money factor .015...drive off 1866.65 (doc fee, license, 1st payment, bank fee, 1 security deposit)42 mos lease..monthly payment with tax of 8.25%..$469.65. Is this good? I plan to close the deal by friday. Thanks for your help!

mxpro738 · July 2003

Car_man:

I plan to negotiate a lease on a 330i within a day. Please let me know if I am on the right track here (based on the Edmunds lease calculator):

- negotiated price of $36,000
- buyout of $19,080
- title/reg. of $540
- lease acq. of $525
- security deposit of $550
- 36 mo. 15k mi.
- trade in of $5,000

Payment comes in at $467.10.

Also, a friend is negotiating a deal on a 540i. To calculate his lease correctly, should he subtract the $4,500 dealer incentive from the purchase price before calculating the residual, or no?

Thanks so much!!!

mxpro738 · July 2003

Is it true that if one were to lease a 3 series, then buy out the car at the end of lease, that the car would autmatically be labelled a CPO car in the process, thus resulting in a 6 yr. 100k mi. warranty?

Please help my understanding of how this works. I plan to negotiate a lease within a day.

Thanks in advance!

brian4001 · July 2003

Hi, CarMan

I'm a newbie so please bear with me.. I've never bought or leased a car before

I saw a commercial from Ford. I believe they are promoting $2500 cash back or 0% apr. for the Taurus. Is the 0% APR for buying and leasing?

I'm wondering about a 3yr/36000 lease for the Taurus SE in NYC.

What is the residual for this car?

If I choose the $2500 and decide to lease, what would be my money factor?

Thank you very much..

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