Toyota Sienna Maintenance and Repair (2003 earlier)

pjksr · March 2002

The now-infamous Toyota maintenance manual calls for changing or inspecting the "differential" oil in the Sienna at 15,000 miles.

Isn't the differential, plus its lubricant, integral with the automatic transaxle (transmission for us non-Toyota speakers)?

Pete

duckshooter · March 2002

Got it now - I see it on my 2000 Tundra too. Exact same part. I thought the whole part was metal... like you said, it's a thin metal part encased in plastic. However, this doesn't support the door's weight, just stops the swing. In either case, it's metal to metal to metal throughout, not plastic.

On my last truck, a 4Runner, that piece was all metal and it would get surface rust on it making the door squeek until you greased it. Guess the plastic coating is supposed to prevent that surface rust problem and keep the door quiet.

Jeff

infidel · March 2002

Well, I didn't notice any metal inside the plastic. The whole piece is very flimsy.

Every time I think about it breaking, I get pissed off. I'm going to take it in next week, and see if it's covered. Although even if they fix it I'm still going to have a slightly misaligned door. While I'm there I'll have them install the 3 interior screws which are missing, and causing rattles.

stevo · March 2002

Hello,

I own a '98 Sienna XLE with 52,000 miles - I'm the original owner (4 years 2 months). I was a frequent user of the town hall Sienna boards back in '98 but haven't posted anything in a while.

My van has been mostly trouble free. It is still smooth and quiet. With proper rotation, the tires have worn evenly and still have tread left.

Under warranty, I've had the radio replaced (loose buttons) and a sliding door handle replaced.

I've changed the oil myself every 3-5k miles and it still looks rather good when draining out - compared to other vehicles I've owned. I've noticed the item under the oil filler cap. I've always thought it was a filter of some sort. It's been there since it was new.

This last month, the van started making a ticking sound under light acceleration. It is not related to engine speed, only vehicle speed. It is coming from the front end - somewhere in the drivetrain. I took it in to Toyota and they said they found the left front wheel bearing bad. They replaced it but the noise continues. I took it back again but they cannot pin-point the noise. The powertrain warranty expires shortly and I don't want to be stuck paying for transmission/differential or cv-joint work.

By the way - from an earlier question - when I had the transmission fluid replaced at 30k miles, the dealer said the differential fluid was separate and they didn't recommend replacing it until later. Don't know if he knows what he's talking about though. My manual says to "replace automatic transmission and differential oil...every 15k miles if operated under special operating conditions". I don't fall under these conditions. For normal usage/conditions, it does not list a replacement frequency.

davedave1 · March 2002

My 2000 Sienna has Dunlops, however it appears I'll be lucky to get 30k on the tires with a 5 tire rotation. It has been aligned, runs straight (no pulling), the tires all wear evenly, but it appears that the Dunlops don't last too long.
Any others had this situation;
Recommended replacement tire opinions??

Thanks

barbz · March 2002

Can someone explain what to do about the letter Toyota sent about the oil gelling. How can you tell if you have the gel.

Thank you

innovations · March 2002

barbz,

There is an Edmunds Forum titled "Engine Sludge? (Discussion Re-Opened)" in the Maintenance and Repair section of Edmunds. If you post there, you should be able to get all kinds of advice.

stever · March 2002

Engine Sludge? (Discussion Re-Opened)

Steve
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jeprox · March 2002

i recommend michelin over any brand out there. yes, dunlops are not good at all! the grip is no good and they only last about 40,000+kms. depending on driving habit too.

sears sell tires made by michelin for sears and they have a lifetime warranty! very good deal.

fischda · March 2002

I've been away for quite a while, so forgive me if this has been covered.

I have a "check engine" light in my '99 Sienna, and when we took it in, the diagnostic showed a code that means the oxygen sensor in the exhaust system is bad. Dealer said there was a recall or perhaps a factory-extended warranty in California for this sensor because it is only installed in Siennas with CA emissions. Even though we purchased ours in VA (at Cliffy's dealership), we have the CA emissions option.

Hears the catch - Toyota will only cover the repair if you are a CA resident. I live in Nebraska, so I'm SOL and face $370 PLUS labor to fix this stupid thing.

The car doesn't need the sensor (I've learned it's one of four in the exhaust system), but if we don't replace it, it will continue to cause the MIL (engine) light to come on again and again. We're almost at 60,000 miles and the end of the warranty. Therefore, every time the light comes on we have to go to the dealer and get a diagnostic check to make sure any of a hundred other possible malfunctions is causing the indicator light. This will cost us!

I don't think it's fair to put CA emissions on cars not sold in CA, then refuse to cover the repair because I don't live there. And I can't swallow the thought of shelling out over $400 for a part I never needed in the first place. So I called corporate, and got nowhere. I got an address and name of the customer service supervisor, and I intend to ask Toyota to reimburse me the cost of the dealer repair. I can't see not doing it, or else I'll have this MIL light on for the rest of the life of the car.

I need help. What should I do? Thanks!

Dave

jeprox · March 2002

you have to replace the sensor or your engine may end up running rough or you may consume more gas due the faulty sensor.

i believe there are 3 sensors. one on bank 1 and one on bank 2 and one just after your cat. all 3 are within easy reach and fairly easy to replace. if you can find out which one is faulty, you can buy the part and replace it yourself. you can also probably find aftermarket sensors which would cost half the price of an OEM sensor.

if your car is still under warranty, any dealer should honor the warranty regardless where you bought the vehicle. they are supposed to replace it under warranty and bill toyota for it.

many cars here in canada have CA emission standards.

goodluck

bob57 · March 2002

Bombard them with letters and phone calls and generally make a pest of yourself. I would keep stressing the recall factor and warranty issue whether your van is from California or Tasmania.
I did that with a Chevy problem years ago and it worked. I would also drive into their service area at least once a week and complain so the other customers could hear. Man, were they glad to get rid of me!

pjksr · March 2002

My 2002 Sienna, 5500 miles, has a "shudder" feeling around 62 mph, which feels like driving on a rough road. It goes away at higher/lower speeds, and is more pronounced at slight throttle.

Any idea if this could be a torque converter problem? Anyone w/ a similar condition? (PS-drained and filled xmission w/ 5 qts; ATF level is "full;" rotated tires w/ correct lug torque and condition persists.

john339 · March 2002

Toyota has taken a very hard line approach on warranty issues and even against the US and California governments regarding emissions related issues. They even fought to the point of being sued by the US Dept of Justice and the EPA. This linked statement by the US Department of Justice shows how Toyota is "is the first such manufacturer that has refused to settle with the United States". I don't think your model year would be part of this particular issue but it may show the uphill battle you might have.

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/1999/July/298enr.htm

They settled a suit this month over smog equipment in California and are paying a hefty fine and possibly extending warranties but since its it California it wouldn't help you anyway.

greyfox99 · March 2002

Is anyone having problems with the above, our goes off constantly. Also how does it work? could a malfunction in the pressure sensor cause an air leak?

Also if any of you long time users of this forum have any suggestions on how to find a topic without scrolling through 1700 messages I would like to know how you do it.
Thank you in advance

Thanks,

Thanks

jeprox · March 2002

the tire pressure indicator is a handy feature to have. there's a sensor on each wheel that detects the rotation of your wheel. any malfunction will not cause you to loose air.

when it comes on, you have to check the pressure of each wheel and see which one is low. once you find the low pressure tire, correct it and reset the light. IMPORTANT: to reset, turn ignition to "ON" press and hold down the reset button until the light on the dash flashes 3 times - then let go. pressing the button once will not make reset the light

mcgreger · March 2002

Jeprox is right-check the tire pressure on all of your tires. I had the light go off on our Sienna last year; checked the front ones first and found the left front down about 5 or 6 psi. Couldn't find any obvious leaks(stem, rim, or punctures); took it to local tire shop and after a considerable amount of time and effort, they found the problem. It was a single strand of wire no larger in diameter than a strand of hair and about an inch in length-just stiff enough to puncture the tire and cause a very slow leak. So check out your tires-could be something like this is causing the sensor to go off.

jj35 · March 2002

I had the same problem with my tire sensor light. It needed to be reset. I followed the dealers instructions and could never get it to reset properly (but they never mentioned the "flash three times" that Jeprox mentions) and they were finally able to get it to shut off. No problem since.

jeprox · March 2002

yes, the dealer don't tell you to hold down the button and wait until u see the light on your dash flash 3 times, then let go. even the owner's manual doesn't tell you to hold it down and wait for the 3 flashes.

we normally assume that we just press a reset button once and it would reset. not the case for the sienna tire pressure reset button! if you press it once, it will go NOT away and then keeps coming back!

its a handy feature and have saved me a number of times already, i like it a lot.

fischda · March 2002

Thanks for your response, guys. Toyota told me the O2 sensor was NOT under warranty (only in California). The car goes in Tuesday to have both valve cover gaskets replaced (thankfully under warranty). Maybe I can get them to show me the location of the faulty sensor, and I'll either have an independent fix it or do it myself.

I will make some fuss about it to corporate, but I doubt anything will come of it. I like the idea of complaining loudly in front of other customers.

bob57 · March 2002

My '00 manual does state the whole procedure - three flashes, etc.

John339:
Quoted (snipped): And in June 1998, the government settled with American Honda Motor Co. and Ford Motor Company for installing illegal emission control devices in certain vehicles. The Honda case, like the case filed today, also involved on-board diagnostic systems that the government alleged did not comply with Clean Air Act.

I believe Toyota's contention at the time was that the devices were initially approved by the government agencies involved in the initial testing then the testing changed.
Do you own a Toyota, John? Just curious

john339 · March 2002

As I understand it all auto manufacturers had to meet the same Clean Air laws, not just Toyota. What was different was, according to the Department of Justice, Toyota was the only auto manufacturer that had to be sued. Given the same laws, other auto makers chose a different, less 'hard-ball' approach to resolving a problem than Toyota apparently did, if you believe the DOJ.

per the DOJ link below - "However, Toyota is the first such manufacturer that has refused to settle with the United States."

Whether Toyota's actions in this situation or Toyota's approach to the whole engine sludge problem is indicative of how that company approaches other problems, and what is best for the customer, I'll leave that to the individual. At the least it is an interesting observation I thought.

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/1999/July/298enr.htm

bob57 · March 2002

I don't agree with your stance on the "sludge" issue (on this post or the others you have written on Edmunds) which, by the way, I didn't refer to but you responded anyway. Aside from Toyota's position which you poated (again) above - I'll ask again (which I did on another post and you didn't answer) - Do you own a "any" Toyota automobile?
The reason for my question is we like to hear first hand information on problems generated from "actual" drivers and first hand experience and I have never read anything from you indicating otherwise.

jj35 · March 2002

Bob57 - In your post #4711 on the Engine Sludge town hall, it is pretty obvious that you read John399's answer to the question of owning a Toyota. That post of yours is dated March 23, so you knew his answer before your post #1733 above. I found his answer admirable. Lay off, why dontcha?

Besides, it is not a prerequisite to own a sludged Toyota (or any Toyota) to post on the engine sludge or any Toyota message board. John339 has been able to provide some very interesting and beneficial information regarding engine sludge and a number of other topics from his internet research. I appreciate the info he provides. By the way, I own an '00 Sienna that sludged at 17,000 miles.

bob57 · March 2002

I also own a '00 Sienna. Sorry yours sludged. There is so much speculation and no facts posted anywhere that the "Sludge" hall, IMO, is not going anywhere until Toyota, not someone else, comes up with something besides their present change oil policy. I think it's becoming erractic by posting everthing from the EPA to the BBB and no actual cause of the problem - except to change oil more often than stated in the manual.
I have nothing personally against John (except maybe the time he has to research all this - jealousy..) but it's immaterial if Toyota decided to fight a non related suit from several years ago. I say stay with the present issue and don't drag something else into the discussion.
All I'm seeing is speculation from people who are quoting other people who are also speculating.
Like everyone else, I would like to see a conclusion of this issue even tho I haven't had any problems with my Toyota or the dealer. Whether I do or not in the future is, of course, speculation -

)

deg856 · March 2002

I'm with bob57 when he asked whether John339 even owned a Toyota. I still don't know. John339 took many pot shots at Toyota and seeded doubts in this forum, but he has not responded to a simply and direct question. It is important to know where the person is coming from when we try to weed through all the wild speculations on the sludge issue. If John339 has facts, preferably first hand information, I'd love to read them. What we don't need is conspiracy theorists stirring up worries from all angels for no good reason. It does not help any one.

I wish there is a "counter" feature that keeps track of people saying the same thing over and over again. When somebody writes "I got sludge at 17000 miles" on 50 different occasions, it would be nice for the casual reader to know somehow that it's the same person saying the same thing, rather than 50 different people saying the same thing. That you have sludge is no in dispute. How you got it and how your maintenance was done is unknown. There's so much written about sludge in this forum, but how many participating in this forum actually have it? My impression is there's no more than 2 or 3 people. You (jj35) are one. Who are the others? Am I wrong on the low count?

I understand that Sienna just got rated #1 in terms of reliability among minivans by Consumer Reports. Isn't it ironic that people who were scared away from getting Sienna by unsubstantiated Internet discussions on sludge ended up getting vans of lesser reliability? I think people who hype up their own problems out of portion are doing the general public a real disservice.

San Jose, CA

john339 · March 2002

deg - I guess you have not read all of my posts or you would already know the reason I have an interest in this subject. It has been posted on several occassions.

What JJ was rightfully pointing out is that Bob already knows my interest, yet posted that he did not. Why he would do that I do not know.

Since you have evidently not read my posts, I will gladly explain where my interest lies. My grandparents have one of the affected Camrys and they do not know much about cars. I have more knowledge of cars and have access to the Internet, which they do not. They did not purchase a Camry to worry about such things.

As for the number of people on here who have sludged engines, I have counted more than 20 in the short time I have been here. Also, Pat Goss from MotorWeek said he has more than 20 Toyota clients witht he sludge problem. Thats alot.

Personally I am glad that JJ and others have hung around as long as they have to discuss the issue with people relatively new to it like me. Frankly I am surprised that people would attack someone for describing a situation they had with their vehicle. I mean the title of this page is 'Toyota Sienna Problems' afterall and different people come to these pages every day

I have never been one to think that too much information is a bad thing.

Here are the Pat Goss quotes: http://www.wusatv9.com/consumer/consumer_article.asp?storyid=4725

jj35 · March 2002

Has it only been 50 times that I have mentioned it? I wasn't counting, but it certainly feels like more. So you want John339 to repeat his reason for posting on this board, but would prefer that I don't? I don't get it.

jj35 · March 2002

Anyone interested in possible causes of engine sludge should visit the "Engine Sludge" Town Hall under maintenance and repair. Bobistheoilguy has some interesting theories about oil breaking down around 4,000 miles in Toyota engines.

dardson1 · March 2002

No longer do I have a sunvisor that buzzes, a driver's window that pops when partially lowered, a $250 rear view mirror that shuttered at idle, flex in the body that caused the rear sliders to "groan" when I turned into a parking lot/drive way/etc nor do I have to grease those sliders once a month to quiet the "groan". I no longer hear the rear drums squeak as I inch up to an intersection, or the strange noises that come from the rear (the rather loud "boing" kinda like plucking the spring of a garage door), the rear captain's chairs rattling over a rough patch of road, or the rattle of the cheap add-on console lid that would open sometime and sometime wouldn't and was left ajar so I knew I could get into it. I no longer worry about oil changes, if the dealer performed the service, or if it was soon enough to qualify as good maintainance.
How did I fix all those problems? I traded it in. I have to laugh when I think I bought the car for the Toyota reputation for making near perfect vehicles. I simply didn't have the time nor disposition to drive a "perfect" Toyota.

jeprox · March 2002

what car did you trade for?

stever · March 2002

and how does it compare to that VW Square Back that, according to your profile, you enjoyed so much.

LOL

Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

john339 · March 2002

Linked is a photo and corresponding post regaring a sludged Toyota V6 with only 12,000 miles. This photo is reportedly taken after the dealership used the a WINNs engine flush for 45 minutes on it.

bobistheoilguy "Engine Sludge? (Discussion Re-Opened)" Mar 30, 2002 6:24am

photo link:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/sludgedmeashgear.jpg

dardson1 · March 2002

Host.....that old Square Back was a piece of junk. The Sienna was simply a B+ vehicle that promised to be an A+. I NEVER expected the laundry list of irritations from the high-holy standard-or-the-world Toyota. It's a case of "The Emporor's New Clothes". Everyone believes it, everyone wants to believe it, and nothing you can say will convince most Toyota drivers that the emporor is not that well dressed.
Jeprox, my new transportation is a Tahoe. Believe it or not, I'm getting 15mpg using regular fuel in the Tahoe. I got 17+ in the Sienna using premium, per the book. I'm talking straight city driving. Never came close to the 19 promised by the Toyota. If you do the math, the Tahoe is slightly cheaper to drive. The Tahoe has been, so far, quiet, smooth, and everything a $30k+ vehicle should be. The Sienna is a perfectly fine low to mid $20k car. It's outta it's league trying to be a mid $30k car (which mine was with every geehaw Toyota could dream up).
I paid $29k for the 01 XLE ($34k MSRP). I paid $28k for the 02 Tahoe ($34.5kMSRP) after the $2002 rebate. The Tahoe is a luxo car and the the Sienna was a $22k minivan trying to be a luxo car. All this is just IMHO.

truckdude · March 2002

While I too have had some minor annoyances (mostly creaking doors), I think for the $24k I paid for a fully loaded LE is very good compared to what else you can buy for 24k. The powertrain is what makes this car great. I am surprised at your mileage - we use 85 octane at 5200ft and always average 20-24mpg, mostly heavy foot city driving and some 80mph highway driving.

Anyways, the Tahoe is very nice also. Hope you got decent $ for your Sienna.

jeprox · March 2002

enjoy your new tahoe. i've seen the new one and they look nice. as far as dependable and so on... guess only time will tell.

goodluck.

jimmie695 · April 2002

Could anyone tell me if the sienna is supposed to have a plastic under engine cover that requires removal to change the oil? I have a 99 LE. I called two different dealers and received two different answers. I hope it is just as simple as someone here looking at their own sienna and posting a response to my question. Also has anyone here had problems with aiming the headlights? Can't seem to get mine adjusted correctly (black spot in upper left on low beam) no matter what I do. Any suggestions? Thanks

fischda · April 2002

Warning: if you don't plan to live in California, DON'T accept a new Toyota with CA emissions on it!!

The short version - '99 XLE with 57,800 miles gets an engine light for the air/fuel sensor (a CA emissions part). Next, valve cover gaskets need to be replaced (warranty). Before appointment, van starts to run very rough. Sensor may be causing engine to run lean (rough). Part is $370. A markup of more than $120! Tried to find wholesale part in a day - need the van for a trip - no luck, have to order through expensive dealer.

Next, computer codes say two spark plugs went bad ($12 appiece). Finally, on Friday (day of our trip), sensor comes in and gets installed. Dealer test drives and feels a cylinder missing. A fuel injector is shot (it's a CA Emissions part). $170 part and it's not in stock. We cram family into tiny VW Jetta and go on trip.

I'm going to pay almost $1000 for a bunch of problems that could have been masked by the CA sensor in the first place. I don't even know if the one cylinder was damaged by running w/o fuel, or if a number of the remaining five injectors could go bad at any time.

We've really loved the van, and this is the only maintenance problem to date, but I'm torqued off about these CA emissions parts going bad, and I never even asked or needed CA emissions!

mcgreger · April 2002

Sorry to hear about your problems, seems like you got stuck with the proverbial lemon. Our '01 Sienna has been great-no issues with anything and certainly no squeaks, rattles, or groaning noises. And finally a van that I can actually hear someone in the backseats and have a conversation with-unlike a couple of other minivans we have driven. Gas mileage combined city/highway is a decent 22 mpg; out on a long trip have gotten 25-26 mpg using 87 octane. Hope everything works out well with your new Tahoe.

dlusger · April 2002

Good luck to you dardson. Actually been reading your posts for quite some time.

Our 01 Sienna has no serious problems. Had a soft dashboard rattle but it disappeared on its own - although there is a TSB on it.

Gripes - Wish turning radius was closer to the competition. It's a shorter van than Honda and Grand Caravan yet it takes more space to turn in a parking lot (based on Consumer Reports stats). Also, the paint seems to scratch easily.

On balance, we like the van. Don't regret the purchase one bit. Got a nice deal - $300 over invoice in Jan 2001 at Koons Arlingon, VA. Really like the comfort and quiet.

IN FACT we bought it to place the mother-in-law out of our hair in rear seats (Volvo 850 back seat was to close for comfort). No such luck - getting our attention cruising down the freeway in the Sienna is a breeze for her!!!

OBTW I'm using $19.95 oil changes at Koons Arlington, VA every 3000/3 mos. Cheap insurance wouldn't you say?

jj35 · April 2002

Time is money. For me to go to a Toyota dealer every 3,000 miles means losing two to three hours every two months (this is counting driving time - I don't live close to a dealer). The nearby Firestone is less than 5 min. from my house and takes only about 30 min. for an oil change. I can make an appointment for 7 a.m. and still be at work by 8:00. I hate that I can't give my neighbor my business.

pjksr · April 2002

And change it yourself with the oil you like, for a fraction of the price...

jj35 · April 2002

I would prefer to use my neighbors Firestone garage and keep my hands clean. He was really helpful in the maintenance and repair of my former vehicle, a Dodge Grand Caravan and my mothers Cadillac Sedan Deville. I planned to use him for maintenance with the Sienna, but after Toyota's refusal to accept his receipts and others when my van initially sludged, I dare not go back to him until out of warranty. I doubt I will own the van that long, though. Plan is to buy a non-toyota 1993 model when they hit the showroom floors.

jeprox · April 2002

i'm not quite sure i understand your question.

"Could anyone tell me if the sienna is supposed to have a plastic under engine cover that requires removal to change the oil?"

basically, to change the oil:
drain oil, remove filter, fill-up with new oil and install new filter, check oil level and that's it. there's no cover or any plastic parts that you need to remove to change your oil.

about your headlight, you may want to check if your bulb is properly installed. if it's crooked, adjusting your aim won't help you one bit!

deg856 · April 2002

I used to change oil in our family cars to save a few dollars when I was in school. It was fun and satisfying the first few times due to the novelty, but it became a hassle. It actually takes quite a bit of time to change oil yourself. You have to raise the car up somehow, then crawl underneath and get dirty. You inevitably spill something and have to clean up. There's the problem with how to dispose the dirty oil. After it's all done you'd have to take a shower to clean up. Unless you have a lot of free time and enjoy the work, the money saved is not worth the hassle.

San Jose, CA

deg856 · April 2002

Dardson1 obviously had a lime (not quite a lemon, but not a cherry either), which is out of the norm if he bothered to read the testimony of many other happy Sienna owners. Bad for Toyota for not being there for him, but one bad personal experience does not make a trend. That he is unhappy with his Sienna ownership experience is totally understandable, but his assertion that other owners are happy because we are all blind to the problems (which we don't have, honest) is absurd. I find him guilty of misusing the timeless tale of The Emperor's New Cloth to support his single-sided viewpoint. ;-)

Good luck with the Tahoe, but withhold final judgement until you drive it a few years. Remember how much you raved about the Sienna on the "Toyota Sienna" board when you first got it?

San Jose, CA

jeprox · April 2002

i do my own oil change along with other type of maintenance. i do it coz i enjoy working on cars and also it's done the way i like it to be done!

i'm also sure that it was done properly and it's not a sloppy job. i've had one too many bad experience with car dealers and other shops.

fischda · April 2002

I used to do it myself, and the one thing I hated was the funny placement of the filter. When you take it off, you can't help to spill oil over a rubber boot that you have to wipe off. I don't have the time anymore.

I always shop around before having non-warranty work done. Dealer service vs. independent garage. As a rule, the indys are much cheaper for parts but a little higher for labor. probably because their better mechanics.

zman21 · April 2002

Amen to post 1753. Deg855 I couldn't have said it any better.

wrichar107 · April 2002

My 2000 Sienna XLE has 16,642 miles on it and has had 5 oil changes since it was new. The oil has always been changed before it had 4,000 miles on it. The engine now shows signs of oil sludge as confirmed by the presence of a layer of, blacked,gritty material that can be scraped from the surface immediately below the oil filler cap. Laboratory analysis an oil sample reveals twice the normal level of silicon and more than twice the normal level of calcium. The name of the lab that performed this test will be proved upon request. In addition to the sludge problem, the van has had a steering pull problem since it was new. Numerous other minor problems have come up such as glass and sliding door rattles, noisy brakes, a leaky rear window washer, etc. The vehicle has been taken to both of the local Toyota dealers in my area and so far no service department employee has been able to see or hear any of the aforementioned problems. In the 45 years I've owned and driven vehicles, I have never encountered automobile service department personnel who were more arrogant or rude than those who work for Toyota. This will be my last Toyota product.

Toyota Sienna Maintenance and Repair (2003 earlier)

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