Paint and Body Maintenance & Repair

shadoesc · March 2007

Thanks for the web page - very useful and your suggestions too. I will be finding another insurance company very soon.

. P.S. - the bad thing is that Allstate is the insurer for the responsible part and well as me. I will go in fighting!

Mr_Shiftright · March 2007

You can use the diminution of value argument for what it's worth. Too bad the same insurance company is involved. You may need to seek counsel with a bad faith attorney. I'd estimate your car will lose 30% of its value if it is clipped, so you have to figure out how much that is and whether it's worth it to fight. One of my arguments, if the car is financed, is that after diminution of value kicks in, my car payments still remain the same. The insurance company's decision imposes financial loss upon you one way or the other, while they get to fix the car as cheaply as possible.

Swell.

However, I do wish to emphasize that once you present a coherent objection, sometimes an insurance company will step up and do the right thing. You should always give them the opportunity to be noble.

benztuner · March 2007

if you were the other guy you'd be stuck, but because you were hit you're in better shape. what you should do is tell the insurance company you dont want a clip, if worst comes to worst contact your insurance company and let them know the details. sometimes you can file with your insurance company and they'll go after the other insurance company for you, because they want to make you happy and once they pay to fix it the way you want it they're going to do all they can to get their money back from the other insurance company. i agree, clipping is not a good way of repairing a car, it is the OLD method that is more concerned with the cost of the repair then making sure the repair is done the correct way. im not sure about fighting clipping, but they should be more sympathetic to you because your the one that was hit, but then again if Allstate isnt your insurance company it makes matters more difficult. it is a mess but just keep fighting for what you want and in the end if you dont get it fixed like you want, go for everything in depreciation and try to make the loss up there. dont get discouraged because insurance companies are great at discouraging people/claims, but truthfully you hold the power and if they refuse or tell you you've got to get it fixed at a specific shop then take them to court because that is against the law(well at least in NC). GOOD LUCK.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2007

The problem is though that going to court will cost you $3,000--$6,000.

bigfur · March 2007

I have never heard of any insurance company recommending a clipped rear and have never seen a body shop ever do one. I have see lots of people do it to salvaged cars, but never in a body shop with a repair order. Something sounds very fishy to me here. Also you have the right to demand new parts on your car unless your policy states otherwise.

jneal · March 2007

"The problem is though that going to court will cost you $3,000--$6,000."

Yep, if it made it to court. I would have my lawyer write the insurance company a letter demanding that the vehicle be fixed properly and I think the adjuster would quietly fold his tent and sneak off into the night.........Should only cost you a couple hundred to have a letter written.

I agree with the other posters. I've never heard of an insurance company wanting to clip the rear or the front for that matter. Clipping is pretty common with salvage vehicles but if it were mine and worth very much it wouldn't be clipped. Even then I would sell it as soon as it was repaired, disclosing the repair of course.

benztuner · March 2007

also you might want to look at recommended repair procedures, according to volvo. The MB collision center I own is very particular, MB mandates that all structural repairs be completed on a specific bench, the Celette, Carbench, etc. If a vehicle isnt repaired on this bench the vehicles remaining warranty could be voided. Also MB has very strict "rules" dictating the manner in which vehicles are repaired. Volvo, like MB, puts a lot of time into engineering safety measures, etc in their vehicles and im sure they've got guidelines to repair their vehicles too. because you can take your car anywhere, check around and see if there is a Volvo Certified shop or any other high end/luxury shop. Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volvo are all very similar meaning they are all built with safety in mind and have very specific repair methods intended when a vehicle is wrecked. I would take my car to one of these shops, chances are they are used to high end cars and will not even consider "Clipping" the car because they know that isnt safe and I know Volvo doesnt suggest that for their cars. We've had to buy extensive tools specific to individual vehicles and most German cars are built very similar, so if you take it to a MB or BMW shop they'll probably have a better idea of how to fix the car correctly. Thats the best I can think of to get around the insurance company, because they cant tell you where to get your car fixed and if the shop wont clip the car then the insurance company should have to pay the shop to fix the car the right way.

shadoesc · March 2007

My neighbor is the body shop owner (38 years in the business) and he has refused to fix the car. He wrote a quote for new parts = $10,500 which would total the car. I told this to the insurance adjuster and he said "I will see what I can do". I have already gone to the Volvo body shop but was not able to find out what Volvo acutally recommends - the man did say BMW has very strict guidelines about how the car is fixed. Guess I will call the body shop manager today. Thanks to all for your suggestions. According to the my other neighbor (a State Farm adjuster) he said it is industry standard to do this stuff - but if these are standards - where is the data? Show me the data.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2007

Well it depends on your state's laws. In some states, the insurance companies can get away with more than in other states. Some of the "standards" are legal, and some are self-regulatory. Many are not enforceable.

My feeling is that it means nothing to an insurance company to get sued. It's cold and impersonal with them in the final analysis. They don't jump up and cheer if they beat you, and they don't walk away sobbing if they lose. All that matters is the bottom line at the end of the year. If a lawyer's letter gets them to change their mind, it's probably because there are too many open files and its costing them too much money to maintain those cases. I doubt getting sued matters at all to them.

I've seen them spend what must have been thousands to bicker over a $500 dispute. I've seen $500 disputes last two years. I've also seen them be stupidly genereous.

Insurance companies are very Jekyll and Hyde.

drew68 · April 2007

Hi Kristie,

Really depends on the shape of the car and how well you want it done. Depending on where it's at on your car as well as paint can look good or bad depending on the angle your looking at it from.

I would definately call around and look for pricing, tips and advise to see if you can do it yourself if it's really small or have a professional do it.

oldfarmer50 · April 2007

Do different car colors resist fading better than others?

I've seen some silver cars that looked like they had been sandpapered. The primer was showing. Also some red cars seem to lose their shine quickly. I once had a white oldsmobile where the paint actually peeled off.

Do different car companies have better or worse paint in this regard?

tallman1 · April 2007

I don't have a specific answer to your question.... if there is an answer. Most of the time, if paint looks bad, it's because the owner hasn't taken care of it.

I've had some great silver cars (including my current ride) that look great for years. The red cars I've seen with faded paint have simply not had the care they needed. Just yesterday, I parked next to a red car that looked pretty good but when I looked closer, it was covered with swirl marks... probably too many trips to the car wash. A little polish would fix the issue.

As you know from your Olds experience, there are also times when the manufacturer had a bad year. I remember a 1980 Prelude that had a bubbling paint problem that was common for that year.

pictel · April 2007

someone dented my parked car, is this going to be a major repair job, this is a new car

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lmacmil · April 2007

I have several chips on the hood of my black car. They are all close to the front so I assume they are from stones. They are mostly about the diameter of a bb. What's the best way to fix them, a little touch up paint? It's not bad enough to warrant painting the entire hood.

tallman1 · April 2007

If the chips go all the way through to the primer, then you will want to use touch up paint. If they only go into the paint, then wax or sealant will fill them. Lesser scratches can be polished out, but I doubt that is your problem with rock chips.

hauss · April 2007

What does it mean "if they only go into the paint"? Does the definition of a pain chip mean that the paint was chipped off and you are either left with bare metal or primer?

I've got a chip about 2-3 mm wide and 2-3 mm high that is down to the primer and I'm looking for the best way to repair it. I've considered a professional, considered using one of those chip conceiling kits, or considered filling the chip with touch up paint and light sanding until it's flush. What does anyone recommend as the best way to repair it?

tallman1 · April 2007

You may have a scratch or chip that doesn't go down to the primer. In other words, SOME of the paint is missing but not all. There is still color showing because of the thickness of the paint. That's obviously not your problem.

I'd like to say that a professional would be the best way to go but you'd want some good recommendations. You can go all out and even repaint the whole hood. You may want to take it to a professional and see what he or she says.

I don't know much about chip concealing kits so if you are looking for a relatively cheap alternative, touch up paint may be the best option.

bigfur · April 2007

Doesnt look to be too horrible. tear down he door and pull the dent out smooth it over prime it paint it and there ya go. Should be depending on the area your in about 500 for the repair.

ohionewman12fa · May 2007

ohionewman12fa · May 2007

Recently someone backed into the door on my 2006 Ford Ranger, in my opinion the paint doesn't match and I am fighting with the shop and my insurance to make it match. Any opinions would be helpful, the door and fender where painted, to me it looks like the door is a lighter gray that the original paint. They did not blend the fender to the hood or the door to the bed. I am not sure if its just a metalic difference or the actual color. In the shade it appears to match, put light on it or direct sunlight and it really stands out. I plan on taking some better photos but these are all i have for now. Thank You!

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/OhioNewman12Fan/100_1680.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/OhioNewman12Fan/100_1679.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/OhioNewman12Fan/100_1678.jpg

kiawah · May 2007

sheez....hope you don't have to do too much fighting before they redo it. Did you send the insurance company these pictures?

Mr_Shiftright · May 2007

I wonder if anyone at the body shop can look at that and say "no, it's fine" without bursting out laughing.

ohionewman12fa · May 2007

these photos are taken at night, without direct light it can appear to match, like today here is very overcast and cloudy and you can't see the major difference, but I feel the same way, they have to know that it doesn't match. I just got the truck back on friday and had to work and I have not been able to talk with the insurance yet. First thing monday morning I will be on the phone yet again. Thank you all for your help.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2007

I'm sure the judge at small claims court would be interesting in looking at those photos, if your body shop or insurance adjuster is tired of looking at them.

jg_points · May 2007

I tried to remove a scuff mark by sanding out the clear coat and paint all the way to the base coat. We then used a primer over that then sprayed it with the color coat. We finished it off with clear coat. The result was nice until we saw that the coats were to thick. It looks like a sticker was placed on that area with the same matching color. What should I do?

benztuner · May 2007

I was wondering if you were a in the business? Did you try to buff the scuff out? If you didnt, you probably should have tried that first, and if looked the same you shouldve taken the next step. Anyways, depending on what color the car is will determine the amount of time/money you'll have to spend. If it is a scuff you might be in okay shape but if it is a scuff with some deep scratches then its a different story. Id take the car to a repair center in your area, if you're not a body man/painter, and let them look at it and tell them what happened. They should be able to fix it. Good luck.

aallred · May 2007

Take a look at the estament from the insurance company and see if thay paid blend time. If they did the body shop is ripping you off if they did not the insurance company is wrong. Look at you policy it should say the car will be returend to pre accadent condition. This is a bad painter working for a bad body shop. All insurance adjusters are sent to school to learn how to rip you off and that is no BULL. Take them to court you will win. Be sure your truck goes with you. Just bad bad work don't put up with it.

oldfarmer50 · May 2007

Is it an old wives tale that car automatic car washes damage the paint on a new car? I've heard several versions of this story. The one I've heard most often is that new paint is soft for something like six months and the brushes in a car wash scratch the paint? True?

Most car washes don't have brushes anymore but rather flat pieces of what looks like indoor/outdoor carpet that is spun or dragged against the car. Are these any better?

How about the "brushless" washes that use high pressure water spray. These don't do as good a job it seems, especially with salt.

Finally, what about the do-it-yourself washes. They have a brush that you use by hand. How bad is it?

Thanks for any advice.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2007

I don't think car washes per se damage paint but they are an opportunity for damage...with say careless people drying the car with rough or contaminated towels.

But modern car finished themselves are very tough. In time, just from environmental factors, you might get some grit in the clear coat and swirl marks from either drying the car yourself or having it done...but these things aren't "damage"---they are easily correctable.

If we insist on perfect paint without swirl marks or chips, lock the car in the garage for 20 years. :P

badams007 · May 2007

I recently purchased a 2006 Hyundai Tuscon and am madly in love with my car.

I live in rural upstate NY, and despite rarely going on dirt roads, we still get stone strikes and road tar, particularly on the running boards and wheel wells.

Is there something specific I can do to protect my car ?? I have seen some paint protection film, but know nothing about whther or not it works and how much of a hassle it is to put on.

Can I get some advice ??

-Beth

Mr_Shiftright · May 2007

They make clear plastic like "skins" you can apply to the front of the car, yes, but they aren't terribly attractive. Maybe someone has done this or has a link to this product.

As for road tar, there are certainly over the counter products you can buy to deal with this:

Here's just a sampling of what's out there--I haven't used these particular products however:

http://www.goestores.com/catalog.aspx?Merchant=detailking&DeptID=72687

benztuner · May 2007

There is a protective film made by 3M, it goes over painted bumpers, etc and is said to protect paint from scratches, fading, etc. The film works okay for a while but I have found that it doesnt prevent a majority of scratches and although it may protect the paint from fading it actually works against you because the part the was covered in the film looks new and the rest of the car looks aged. And the film tends to turn yellow over time and the edges become brown and ultimately outline the area the film covers. You could try Rhino liner for the bottoms of the rockers but it isnt very pleasing to the eye.

jefwilwo · May 2007

I bought a new Pontiac G6 and the dealer offered a rust-proofing, paint protection package for $900. This also includes treating the interior. By the time I left the price was down to $600. Does anyone have any thoughts on the "auto saver system"????? thanks in advance......jeff

Mr_Shiftright · May 2007

take a pass on it would be my two cents. Your car is already rust-proofed, your paint is clear-coated from the factory, and the interior you can do yourself with Scotch-Guard.

wilddeuce23 · June 2007

I'll start off by saying that I am petty car illiterate.

I have a 2000 GMC Sonoma that is in pretty decent condition. I'm planning on keeping it for a while and giving it to my daughter when she is old enough.

I would like to get the body fixed up and a new paint job done on it. There aren't that many dents and dings but enough that it bugs me. I also found a spot where the paint is starting to peel off.

My question is, what exactly should I look for in a place to do what I want with out getting screwed over. I'm not looking to get some immaculate paint job or body work that is done on rebuilt classics, but I also don't want something that is going to start fading or peeling right after it's done.

I'm planning on keeping the truck around for a little while since it only has 68k miles on it. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Mr_Shiftright · June 2007

Here's my two cents on repaints:

1. Always paint the same color

2. Remember, the durability of a paint job lies in the PREP, as well as in the paint. It's how the surface is prepped and primed that will determine the longevity. Therefore, if they charge you $1000, you know you aren't getting much prep are you? Especially since good paint costs a lot. Which brings us to #3.

3. The better the paint quality, the longer it lasts. To give you an example, with one of the last cars I painted (had painted by a friend) we spent MORE just on the paint and materials (primer, papers, compounds, clear coats, etc) than most cheap shops charged for the entire job!!

So if the paint I brought home in a box costs more than Maaco's entire paint job, what does that tell you? Exactly.

You are right. You don't want some "show quality" work---but you don't want your car painted with a broom and sleazy, left over paint that looks great for 6 months and then falls off, gets dull, chips, fades, cracks, etc.

So where's the compromise? Probably somewhere around $3,000--$3,500. For that, they may not remove all the glass or trim, but they should remove some of the easy stuff, and they should paint the door jambs.

It's okay to pay less, but lower your expectations for the "long haul" durability of the paint.

And get a warranty. And ask to see their paint booth. If they're painting with a hose and plastic sheets hanging from the ceiling, chances are this might not work out. Some guys are great, they can work like that, but the odds are against getting a good job from a Mickey Mouse operation.

benztuner · June 2007

I agree completely. I run a Mercedes-Benz certified shop and we have to use Glasurit paint, which in my opinion is one of the best, if not the best, paints out there. The way we do a complete paint job is not typical to most shops. We take all of the glass out of the car, including windshield and rear glass if necessary. Take all of the moldings, weather strips, mirrors, everything even the gas lid. And then we strip the surfaces, using either a 180 grit then 320, then 500, and finally scotch brite and sand fix. Everything is primed and blocked and eventually painted. Everything should be painted, the door jams, around the windows, trunk jams, radiator support, etc. Now there is another important detail to determine when finding a shop. We are a BASF National Warranty center, which means we and BASF guarantee the paint for life. This is were even some of the higher quality shops cut corners. We use Glasurit products from top to bottom, the primer, sealer, base coat, clear...everything. Most of the higher end shops in this area advertise Glasurit paint, but truthfully they use DuPont or ICI primer, then use Glasurit base, and a DuPont etc. clear. This is a good way to cut corners for most shops. They can advertise they use Glasurit, but its the least used material. You should definately ask to see the booth, they might turn you down but if they do you probably dont need to get the work done there. A down draft booth is recommended, see if the painter has a "Fresh air system", these are signs of a nicer shop. And you should ask for a warranty, if they wont give you one there is a good reason for that they dont have faith in the work or paint. You were'nt far off, our paint jobs start at $4500.00, and although that sounds expensive for the amount of work/time spent, the final product is well worth it if you plan on keeping the car for a while. Good luck.

Mr_Shiftright · June 2007

Great, thanks for those helpful hints!

wilddeuce23 · June 2007

Those are all great tips. I really appreciate it. Even though the truck runs great, I'm just a little reluctant to spend more on a paint job than what my truck is worth. I guess I'll just have to decide if it's worth it since I am planning on keeping it for awhile. Thanks again.

Anyone have anything to comment on the body work? Thanks!

Mr_Shiftright · June 2007

Part of your decision depends on how many more miles/years you plan for this truck. While spending $6,000 seems a bit loopy, if you amortize that over the next six years, that's a lot cheaper than yearly car payments for a new truck.

wilddeuce23 · June 2007

Yeah, good point. Thanks again!

dchen2003 · June 2007

Does any one have the recommendations for choosign car wax for a 03 white camry. The factors I consider is long lasting and UV resistance. Because I don't have a garage to park my car, it is always under the strong sun in Alabama. Just want to keep my car white instead of ivory. Why some advertisemnt say " Easy on easy off", does that mean it won't last for a long time?

Thank you for any the recommendations and suggestions

qbrozen · June 2007

well, I don't know the condition of the rest of the truck, but I suggest getting the dents pulled for a couple hundred bucks and getting the 1 chipped area resprayed. no point going nuts on a late model pickup.

tallman1 · June 2007

Does any one have the recommendations for choosign car wax for a 03 white camry.

I'm sure you will get many suggestions but I love the paint sealant from Griot's Garage

They have two versions, one with a small bit of polish and one without. Great stuff... lasted a year for me but I have a garage.

If you don't want to wax every three months, consider this stuff.

benztuner · June 2007

I have used Zaino, and it gets a lot of flack from some people but personally I think it works really well, the outcome is great. The thing about Zaino is that it is expensive, it can be very expensive actually. And there is no easy on, easy off about it. It is a long process that takes time, and even though it isnt physically demanding work, its still somewhat draining. To do the job the correct way you could spend hours on the car. But like I said it holds up to the elements pretty well and it lasts longer than most stuff, but you're going to pay *in more ways than one*. Just like with anything, you need to figure out what the end result is worth to you and how much you're willing to spend on material and how much time you're willing to devote to it. Another plus to Zaino is that you use very little of the "wax" and "polish" each time you wax your car, as strange as that might sound. If you're considering Zaino find a local store or dealer then get them to go over the instructions in detail with you so you understand the correct way, yes there is a correct way, to put the wax on and take the wax off. Good luck with the wax, and good luck with those Alabama summers.

dchen2003 · June 2007

Thank You Very Much!

bigfur · June 2007

Can also try the new meguires synthetic wax. Used it on my 07 Mazda 3 and i love the look of it. Best part about it is you can do it in the sun if you want and dont have to worry about wiping it off right away since its s synthetic. Was easy to use and looks great.

olddog7 · June 2007

Hi, I recently(1 month ago) bought a red Toyota Camry. At the time of purchase I was quoted around $600 for exterior/interior treatments(protection plan)I wasn't interested at the time, but since then I have been speaking to my brother-in-law, who has a new red PT Cruiser, and bought the plan for $300. I called the dealership back and asked for another quote, and lo and behold, today I was quoted $295 for the treatments. This dealership calls it "permaplating". It has a 5 yr warranty,etc. I asked them to email me the details as I live over 100 miles from the dealership I purchased the car from, but occassionaly go up there(los angeles). I'm guessing the interior treatment is Scotchguard, but if they will replace the whole seat, well that's not bad. I want to know others opinion on whether or not it's worth it, can I still wax or do I even need to after the treatment. What I worry about is the red color fading in the hot California sunshine. OK, waiting for comments!TIA.

tallman1 · June 2007

There isn't a product out there that will last 5 years. IMHO (and from everything I've ever read), protection packages are not worth the price. If you decide to go this route, make sure you read all the fine print.

bremertong · June 2007

I have used a variety of products to keep my cars clean but no matter the claims it seems they always look like mud packs after one drive through even one moderate rain storm. I am probably more particular about a clean car than most people. What products and or methods have other forum members used to keep car washing to a minimum and still drive in stormy weather? My goal would be to just wipe the dirt off the surface after driving in the rain without damaging paint or clear coat. I have used products such as turtle wax, no rinse car washes etc. but still find that the car clean up even after one drive in the rain is a task
taking the better part of an hour. My driving is 99% on paved city streets and highways. All ideas and suggestions appreciated. Please mention the name of product you use and if generally available. Also appreciate knowing how you do clean up so as to speed the process and protect the car paint and clear coat from damage. My cars are both gold which is, I think considered a low maintenance color.

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