XM & Sirius Satellite Radio

stever · November 2002

We get KISS FM in Boise, complete with Rick Dees, who used to be my "live" DJ when I lived in Memphis and he hadn't yet moved to LA and cut Disco Duck. I still listen to him on occasion, but the station is er, repetitive. I'm pretty sure it's the feed from the LA station or some canned warehouse and the same junk must get beamed to 150 markets. (I do like Avril btw, just not 3 times an hour).

Utilities are necessities, XM isn't. More power to you early adopters - more selection is a good thing.

Steve, Host

oldsman01 · November 2002

You made some good points. While electricity and gas is a necessity, phone service isn't and cable and satellite certainly aren't. Personally, I doubt XM will ever be free and that is alright with me. The problem with "free" radio is everything is driven to appease the masses or focus groups. I don't think them dropping USA Today will offend too many people. If you want news or talk radio, there is plenty of that on FM. To me, XM is all about the music, something which is strangely lacking on most FM stations these days.

jgmilberg · November 2002

I think that the CNN channel will do wonders for those that like to listen to up to date news and such. From what I can figure they are actually re broadcasting the TV audio of regular CNN programming so a lot of people that miss some of the good CNN shows are going to be able to listen to them while cruising around.

There are also some other channel addition/changes coming. A new alternative station that focuses on the harder side of alternative music, and a live station that is going to feature live interviews and music from popular artists. BET Uptown gets a name change to Suite 62 but still has the same music programming.

oldsman01 · November 2002

I imagine with CNN station will be like the Fox News channel which is just audio from their television programs. So now Larry King fans can listen to him while on the road. I've listed to O'reiley on Fox News while on the road a couple of times, but I tend to prefer music while driving. But XM is all about choices and they seem to be delivering.

jgmilberg · November 2002

I too listen to music most of the time, but depending on what is going on in the news I do listen from time to time. The new alternative channel rocks. From what I can tell you are a Jazz man, and they have a good selection of those. Like so said to each his/her own. That's the beauty of XM much more selection with all the good stuff that FM can't or won't play. Looking for a new car for my wife and I can tell you right now it WILL be XM equipped!!

oldsman01 · November 2002

I do like a bit of jazz and Watercolors(XM71) is one of my presets. I've also found XM Cafe(45) to be rather unique and that it is sort of a lite rock format, but not the same old, worn out, dry songs you hear on FM. They play alot of artists you know, but they seem to play B-sides or lesser known hits. This is why I love XM. FM would never do a thing like that. I noticed the 80s channel is doing a countdown of hits by year and toay they were in 1989. I was amazed at the songs I heard and had literally forgotten about as they aren't played on FM "retro" stations.

s852 · November 2002

I don't have XM in my current car because it is a hassle to get it installed, deal with the unsightly antenna, additional hardware in the car and ugly cables running along the roof or trunk, then still not get maximum quality of the sound because it would be going through an FM antenna adaptor.
I will look at it if I buy a new car with a cleanly integrated system.
The new 2003 Honda Accord is supposed to have it as an option. Unfortunately is ***NOT*** a fully-integrated factory installed unit. It is a dealer-installed accessory that appears to not be available yet.
Does anyone have information on how well integrated it is in the new 2003 Accords and whether it is pure digital or does the dealership install an antenna adapter just like an aftermaket add-on unit?

dklanecky · November 2002

Visit (or call) your local Best Buy or Circuit City and ask them. It's my understanding that a lot of new cars radios have a connection that will allow them to install the XM as direct connection so you can have full digital sound.

Then you only need the actual XM reciever mounted somewhere in the car and of course the antenna.

I have the Pioneer add on unit (since June) and even with the add on controller and the ugly antenna and the FM modulated sound it's still sounds better than FM but not up to CD sound quality.

The programming is great IMO but there is a noticeable drop off in sound quality from CD. Most people when listening the XM in my car think they're listening to CD until I play a CD then they notice the difference. No one yet has thought it was a normal FM station.

timadams · November 2002

It will never be up to or even near CD quality, no matter how it is hooked up. The bit rate is far, far below that of a CD, and you will not get the dynamic range or quality that you get from a CD. The data simply isn't there. Better than FM: yes. Approaching CD quality: no.

This is not a big deal in a car environment, however, due to road noise, wind noise and general acoustics. For home use, however, the sound quality of digital radio is a disappointment to some users with good audio equipment and discriminating ears.

anonymous02 · November 2002

Lighten up, it is in a CAR!

Who cares if it is digital or gets whatever db response or anything like that. There are car and road noises which make anything from FM insignifcant anyhow.

sheesh!

oldsman01 · November 2002

I've connected the XM receiver to my home stereo receiver and it is not quite up to the level of a CD, it is pretty clear. One thing I've noticed with XM is the output levels(even with the line out level at it's highest) are still lower than that of another source such as a CD or FM. The beauty of XM is no annoying static. Not to mention the excellent programming.

s852, I have the Sony "plug n play" with FM modulator in my Intrigue and to be honest, I was impressed with how well it sounded. I had my reservations about it as I've had experience with RF modulated CD changers in the past and was not impressed, but since no one could seem to locate an adapter which would allow me to use the radio's AUX input(which is also used by the Onstar system) I decided to give the RF modulated route a try. As for antennas, I think the new generation are smaller and less obstrusive than the first year ones. Mine is the "shark fin" looking one.

jgmilberg · November 2002

Well they have come a long way in Antenna design, if you take a peek at the XM radio web site you can see them. My new personal favorite is this one http://www.xmradio.com/catalog/product_detail.jsp?id=28487&type=Antenna I wish they were making it when I installed my XM set up. I have the Terk sr-2 antenna. The whole thing took me around 2 hours to complete, but I did it the hard way, I took half of the interior out of my Yukon XL to hide the components.

Even with the FM modulator the sound quality is 100 times better than regular FM. Even though it does come through the FM part of your radio it is still directly connected to the antenna so the sound will be a whole lot better than regular FM.

stever · November 2002

Anyone else hear that portable players are due next year for XM and Sirius?

Steve, Host

anonymous02 · December 2002

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2002apr/gee20020408011094.htm

anonymous02 · December 2002

http://www.bsu.edu/web/CICS/IWI/newsletter/Spring2002/Spring2002issue1.htm

(scroll down a little bit)

csi35 · December 2002

one of them has to have coverage of all Baseball, Hockey and Football.

By the way their is a $75 rebate for XM in NJ.

ashutoshsm · December 2002

And on a recent road trip, driving back home on a Sunday, we were able to keep tabs on EVERY single NFL game on that day, as well as every NBA game. Since I don't care about baseball or hockey, I wasn't checking for it. But I'd assume they're covered as well.

There's ESPN, ESPN News as well as a couple of other SportsNews channels, one of which is what I used to listen to in the Rocky Mountain area to keep tabs on the day's sports activities.

montanafan · December 2002

I think what csi35 was onto, would be an audio package simular to the packages available on satellite TV to get all NFL or MLB games. And now that I think of it, that would put an XM in my house. Are you listening XM?

lexlan · December 2002

I just bought a 03 Yukon XL with the XM option. It has the higher profile large antenna. I tried to get the dealer to swap it out from one of the low profile antennas shipping on current models. Does anyone know if I can swap this out and where?

jgmilberg · December 2002

You can order the antenna through a few places. Best bet is here http://www.gmpartsdirect.com Then you need to pull the headliner and other trim. The new antenna should fit, but to make sure you need to make sure it uses the same mounting set up. The new one uses one hole, and some of the old ones used 4, so make sure before you order.

ppower · January 2003

the music I want to hear and load the CD-changer up. A subscription isn't for me.

Ppower

oldsman01 · January 2003

The trouble with that(as I used to do exactly what you do) is that you soon become familiar with the sequence of songs on the CD. And you have to have the CD to copy the song. The beauty of XM is the variety and the depth of music you hear. I couldn't tell you the number of times I've said "oh yeah, I hadn't heard that song in years" while listening to XM. The $9.99 a month is chump change for most folks anyway.

sean48 · January 2003

There have been several questions in the Nissan Murano discussion forum about the availability of port- or dealer-installed XM radio in the Murano. Does anyone here have information on this...availability, complexity, cost? I'm close to finalizing a deal for a new Murano this week, and I want to have XM radio installed and activated at the time I pick up the car, if possible. Thanks.

vadp · January 2003

I think you'll have to wait a little longer until the dealer install option becomes readily available.

http://www.xmradio.com/cars/nissan.html

stever · January 2003

"people who have CD players in the car still listen to the radio 70 percent of the time"

KVH to unveil satellite TV for cars

Steve, Host

ashutoshsm · January 2003

This person, who has a 6CD changer, cassette and AM/FM radio in his car still spends 98% of his time listening to Xm satellite radio. They should conduct a poll of XM adopters, if what they're trying to prove is preference for one format over another based on such stats.

Oh, and I listen to the 6CD changer 1% of the time, and the radio 1% of the time (latter only for local weather or news)

stever · January 2003

I took it to mean that even people with CD and cassette players prefer to listen to the radio (and that would include satellite radio).

It could mean that people keep forgetting to take their cd case to their cars too :-)

Did you notice that the satellite TV also will offer a bunch of radio choices? More competion for XM and Sirius if they get it online.

Steve, Host

ashutoshsm · January 2003

Because that's exactly what I do!

However, its not so much a case of 'forget' my CD changer magazine at home for weeks or months, as it is a case of 'heck, I'd rather listen to XM than my same-old predictable song-ordered CDs'

Yeah, my CD player has multi disc random/shuffle play - doesn't help turn the tide either!

oldsman01 · January 2003

I listen to XM probably 95% of the time I'm in the car. Usually, if I'm not listening to XM it's because I'm driving a very short distance and just didn't fool with turning it on, or I had been enjoying XM in the house and didn't bring the unit. Before XM, I ALWAYS kept a cd in the player(usually one I had burned with a multitude of songs) which served as sanity if the FM dial started playing too many of the same lame songs over and over or the endless loop of commercials. Now with XM, I seldomly bring CDs with me in the car. After I first bought my car in July 2001, I was seriously considering having a CD changer added(and paying the dealer cost to have one that the stock radio would operate) but thanks to FM, this is not necessary. In fact, I wouldn't even look for this option on my next rather instead factory installed XM radio is what I'm interested in on my next ride.

stever · January 2003

CD's bug me because I'm more of a "one hit wonder" kind of guy instead of an album fan. Besides, picking songs is why the deejays make such big bucks.... or maybe it's the kick backs?

Steve, Host

ashutoshsm · January 2003

They will not only play the one hit those one-hit wonders had, but sometimes/often play another rather good number by them that you would NEVER hear on any classics or 80s/90s FM radio station. I actually like that!

jgmilberg · January 2003

DJ's DO NOT pick the songs they are playing, the station has a set song list that is in the same order for weeks at a time, then after they burn out the new songs, they change it up just a hair. That is one of the main reasons I got XM, no matter how long you listen and what time of day there is always a different song on, wether it's in the top 40 or not, and not always at the same time. Before XM I knew by the song playing what time it was, didn't have to look at the radio after I figured out the time thing, then came FM talk, I listened to that until I got XM, and still listen to it while at work because I have not gotten around to getting a portable unit to take into work and hook into my radio there.

You have basically 3 choices anymore, one is obviously the true winner of the three.

1 - XM Radio
2 - Same songs all the time be it FM or CD
3 - Talk radio AM or FM

You pick, I did, and for $9.95/mo I get more than what I pay for in my opinion.

People say those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... I built mine out of Lexan!! Sure it cost more, but you get what you pay for.

oldsman01 · January 2003

Your absolutely correct!! If you only listened to FM, there are many artists that you'd think were one hit wonders when truly they had several hits, just only one big hit. XM plays many of those "lesser" known hits and even some tracks that were never released as singles.

stever · January 2003

Excellent points, but a lot of those "B" sides are "B" sides for a reason. Actually I've had this discussion with a friend who's much more knowledgeable than me about music. He's an "album" guy and just shakes his head at my collection :-)

Lately I've been learning of "new" artists by listening to Terry Gross on NPR. She's a big music buff, and sometimes her tastes coincide with mine.

Check out this letter to Wired: Radio: Where's the Diversity? lambasting XM for killing radio diversity.

And XM Satellite Radio says it has signed up 360,000 subscribers. (Detroit News)

Steve, Host

stever · January 2003

Not to leave Sirius out:

"Sirius ... demonstrated the ability to broadcast video over its system"

Sirius to bring video to satellite radio (MSNBC)

Steve, Host

ashutoshsm · January 2003

Everything that writer has against XM can be summed into two parts ...
1. ClearChannel (which, admittedly, is killing radio) owns a part (11%?) of XM
2. XM costs money

While 2 is a ridiculous (to me) and personal opinion (for others), its exactly what people said about cable tv (and then satellite) when it first came out. 66% or more US families now have one or the other (or both!)

As for 1 - sure - the day ClearChannel starts to influence the day-to-day workings of XM, and the playlists as well as the song/ad ratio start sounding like my FM stations, my system will go on auction. But they (XM) are perfectly aware (I hope!) that such a development would be suicidal. And wouldn't resort to it unless they were on the verge, anyway. And what's the current state of affairs? I'll tell you - excellent playlists, incredible choice, great quality and very few ads or whiny DJ's. All of that IS worth $10 per month (and $150+ as an initial investment) to me, and nearly half a million (and eve increasing numbers of) rothers. So there!

oldsman01 · January 2003

I agree with you 100 percent!! My guess is Mix 22 is a Clear Channel broadcast as it tends to be a little focus group driven, but they still play a better variety than nearly all FM stations do. And with XM, you don't have an endless loop of commercials. For the XM channels that do have commercials, they only play one or two quick ones and then back to the music(usualy less than 60 seconds). Thats the way FM USED to be. Now on FM it's like take a break from the commercials for some music. One thing I've noticed while listening the old Casey Kasem AT 40 replays that 80s on 8 is doing is that trhoughout the 80s, commercials became greater. If you hear a top 40 replay from say 1980, Casey not only played all 40 songs with no radio edits, but also began the program by actually playing the top 3 songs from the previous week. Additionally, a couple of extra songs were usually thrown in. All of this with some commercials took place in a 4 hour window when they originally aired(it's really neat not having to break for commercial after every couple of songs now), but if you hear an AT40 replay from 1988, the top 3 songs from the previous week were not played and numerous songs thoughout the countdown(usually those fading in popularity) were edited. Now I know that songs just didn't get longer throughout the 80s, but commercials just increased. I don't even know if there is a top 40 on current radio these days, if there is I would be interested to see if they can still get 40 songs played in 4 hours without having the edit every other song. Sorry for the long rant, just an observation I picked up.

opieone · January 2003

Hello,

Does anyone know if I could purchase the 03 XM GM Factory radio along with antenna and add to my 2000 Sierra? I am interested in XM but do not have the space in the dash for an aftermarket unit to live. Also, I have had bad luck with the modulation units in the past and would prefer the factory head unit. Thanks in advance. Kevin

jgmilberg · January 2003

If you have the overhead console go to the dealer and order the block out plate that fills the opening where the rear heat controls go for the Yukon/YXL and mount the Pioneer controller there. If you don't have that overhead console, you can order that too, either way it will be cheaper than trying to buy the factory components from GM to install yourself, and the 2003 radio head units are taller than the ones in the 2002 and under models. I have the Pioneer XM unit and love it. There are new antennas too, they are only about 1/2" tall, and you can bring the wires into the cab through the 3rd brake light opening, I would put a dab of silicone over the wires before re installing the brake light just to make sure that you don't get any leaks. There is enough room under the dash to hide the receiver box and FM modulator. You will also need the antenna end adapters from micro to normal, and normal to micro to hook up the modulator to the radio. The effort is worth it, and the payoff is great trust me and everyone else on here that OWNS an XM unit. Not one of us would give it up. You can see the antennas and other equipment on XM's site http://www.xmradio.com/catalog/product_catalog.html

stever · January 2003

"Most FM music stations play 18 to 22 minutes of commercials per hour -- some as much as 24 minutes. Most are abrasive enough to cause a reflexive lunge for the radio to punch to another station -- any station. The bad news: The same ad might just be starting on whatever station you land on."

Can XM Put Radio Back Together Again? (Washington Post).

Steve, Host

tidester · January 2003

The worst is when they play the SAME commercial two or three times in a row - like our LOCAL stations do very frequently! They are just begging for people to abandon them and go with XM!

tidester, host

oldsman01 · January 2003

My sentiments exactly!!

losthat1 · January 2003

Asked my Infiniti dealer if I could add satellite radio to my new QX4. Infiniti has ended their relationship with both Sirius and XM. Salesman says both are in big financial trouble and may be gone soon? What do you think?

stever · January 2003

Both have financing and cash flow issues and digital radio may cramp their adoption rates. Going to be an exciting ride for the stockholders :-)

Here's a recent overview article:

"For Last Analog Holdout, Radio, a Time to Digitize"

Newsday

And this link is XM's blurb about Nissan/Infiniti availability.

Steve, Host

s852 · January 2003

Digital radio should improve the sound quality of local stations, but it still doesn't provide the variety or content available through XM etc..
There is digital TV available off the air too, but it isn't a real substitute for cable or satellite tv if you want more or different programming.

oldsman01 · January 2003

Exactly!!! They improve the transmission quality of current radio all they want, but that isn't going to improve the quality of the actual programming. That is unless you enjoy hearing those lame screaming("who will sell you a new Ford for less?) car dealer commercials in surround sound.

losthat1, sounds like Nissan/Infiniti may have problems with their supplier of XM/Sirius components. Neither will be gone anytime soon.

montanafan · January 2003

Sounds like a salesman selling what he has and not what he dosen't have.

As it has been posted before, worse future for XM is it goes belly up in chapter 11 and gets bought for pennies on the dollar by someone who continues the service.

jgmilberg · January 2003

GM announced 2 weeks ago that they are going to expand the number of vehicles that you can get factory XM radio in. Currently they offer XM in 25 vehicles and they are going to expand it's availability to 44 or 45 vehicles in the last half of '03 model year. A number of vehicles have a radio that can handle XM but they didn't bother to punch the hole in the roof or install the receiver module. Envoy/Trailblazer are perfect examples of this, same radio as the Yukon/XL/Sierra but no XM offerings. I have not heard exactly what cars they are expanding XM radio option to. According to my dealer they are planning on having XM available in ALL GM cars by '05. With that kind of backing from GM, and new aftermarket suppliers I believe that XM will live a good long while.

mlm4 · January 2003

Over-the-air digital radio may bring better audio quality, but with digital it's close to an all-or-nothing scenario with regards to reception. What I will miss about analog is that even a weak and static-y station is audible (like clear channel [like WBZ or WSB] AM stations at night from far-away cities). On the other hand, now that I have XM, this is not really a problem any longer!

s852 · January 2003

With Digital TV broadcasts, you can receive channels with a weaker signal. You might be able to get a picture with rabbit ears or a very small external antenna, where you may need a large, 1950's style rooftop antenna to get some local tv stations on analog.
If digital radio is the same, you might be able to get those staticky stations clearly, so you wouldn't be losing anything. You just would not have the variety of channels you get on XM.

XM & Sirius Satellite Radio

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