Volkswagen Jetta 2006+

ivan_99 · January 2005

True...

I was referring to existing autos, but I guess that wouldnt be completely accurate since the NEW Jetta is not an existing model, though it will be soon.

I guess the GS will be catching up to the Jettakiddingheh

ivan_99 · January 2005

No engine is a stand-alone component.

The specific out really doesnt matter if everything else complements it. The Lotus Elise is a good example; 40+K for a 1.8L 190hp car doesnt sound too impressive either. The Lotus gets the job done.

I guess its good for bragging rightsmine is 175hp and yours is 150hp; regardless if the performance/refinement is there to back it up.

maxamillion1 · January 2005

I can't wait until it's released. It should be out by March 19th.

I will be testing the 2.5 whenever it is released.

As of right now here is the low down on this car...

The model trims available (Value Edition, 2.5 and Tdi)

Value Edition: $17,900/18,975

2.5: $20,390/$21,465

Tdi: $21,385/$22,460

Options include:

ESP: $280 (Value edition only, std on 2.5/tdi)

Pkg 1: $1960 (Sunroof, alloy wheels, and prem. sound)

Pkg 2: (?) (Same as pkg 1, plus XM, leather, wood, power front seats ((12 way_)) and steering wheel controls)

Pkg 2: same as above, only with Sirius radio.

I have heard that the tdi can get up to over $27K.

That's crazy.

maxamillion1 · January 2005

I have noticed that many of the VW owners over at VWvortex are upset about the latest design of the Jetta.

But all one has to do is look at the previous model Jettas, sans the MKIV, and they can EASILY see how this new Jetta has evolved from the MK1-MK3. If anything, the MKIV was the revolutionary design and hte MKV has gone back to its early roots, ESPECIALLY if you look at the MK2 and MK3 Jettas.

Just a thought I guess.

raychuang00 · January 2005

Mostly because the vehicle looks like an Acura TSX (European-market Honda Accord)as styled by Volkswagen. (thumbs down)

However, one thing of interest is the fact that the Chairman of VW has announced that the company does want to sell diesel-fuelled engines that can be sold in all 50 states, which means VW may be looking at making improvements to their Pumpe Deuse diesel engine technology so it likely meets CARB's Ultra-Low Emissions Vehicle emissions standard. That could mean a variant of the PD150 engine sold in Europe could be found on US-market Jettas by Fall 2006, the time that the USA completely switches to low-sulfur motor fuels.

dewey · January 2005

I am sure the new diesel technology will be quite impressive! In fact future TDI's will have to be impressive to compete against future hybrid models.

ivan_99 · January 2005

I always thought that a diesel would make a good - hybrid power source.

Haven't see any or heard of any...probably a reason though.

dewey · January 2005

The VW definition of the Holy Grail: A hybrid-diesel solely produced by VW.

ivan_99 · January 2005

gambit293 · January 2005

Has the Jetta always been geared towards the NA Market? Perhaps that is why this newest evolution look more suited towards American tastes. Maybe VW has given up trying to make the Jetta appeal in other markets as well. It looks bigger and more stretched.

And unfortunately, IMO, it looks much more generic and bland as well. Part of the current gen Jetta's appeal was its very distinct shape and stature: short and stubby. It looked very European, and I think that's why a lot of people were drawn to it in the states. In short, it was a very cutesy car. I don't know if Americans will be willing to pay the premium that comes with a VW for a small car that no longer stands out stylishly.

I guess sales will prove me right or wrong.

ivan_99 · January 2005

The Jetta is the NA name for the Euro VW Bora. It is basically a Golf with a trunk.

All models are getting bigger and bigger. They can introduce their other "small" vehicles...like the Polo and Lupo...but I doubt it.

Even Honda is bringing their overseas small cars (civic is not small anymore)...i think it's called the Fit...or something like that.

dewey · January 2005

"The Jetta is the NA name for the Euro VW Bora. It is basically a Golf with a trunk. "

The above statement is true. The difficulty I have is what distinguishes a Jetta Wagon from a Golf(other than subtle styling cues)?

ivan_99 · January 2005

ummm....

It's a little bigger...I guess...

Are you trying to be a trouble maker

There probably is a little more room behind the 2nd row seats. This of course is going off of the "old" design. I haven't seen an "new" Jetta Wagons.

To further blur things...here is a picture of a Golf Plus...A little bigger than a Glof, but not a Jetta

venus537 · January 2005

The 207 ft lb of torque UNDER 2000 rpm of the 2.0T is ONLY 5 ft-lb of torque less than the V6 Accord which occurs at 5000 RPM!"

this is true, but as you know torque curves are not linear. most of the accord's torque is available at 2000 rpm. yes, it's good that the 2.0t has peak torque at under 2000 rpm but i really like the fact that the torque is MAINTAINED at high RPM. something that can't be said of certain GM pushrod V6 engines.

i have no doubt that the 2.0t jetta will have comparable acceleration to an accord v6. my main concern from going to an accord to a jetta would be the lost in refinement and smoothness from the powerplant. has the turbo lag really been eliminated with the new 2.0t?

i do miss the "german" road feel from the jetta 1.8t i had earlier but i don't miss the hesitation of the line and the lag when accelerating out of a corner though. and the current jetta 5 speed auto is abrupt at times.

those are the "things" i'm hoping have been remedied with the new jetta 2.0t.

creakid1 · January 2005

For those of you who like low-end torque & don't want turbo or supercharger, the new Volvo S40 2.4i & the stick-only '05 Focus ST w/ (Mazda-developed)2.3 are 2 comparable sedans w/ Control Blade rear suspension. This is gonna be an interesting comparison, 'cause the Volvo engine is noisy to rev while the Focus ST's sporty exhaust is loud. The Mazda3 2.3 is less noisy but has weaker low end.

& of course, the low-rpm performance of TSX's smooth 2.4 isn't gonna cut it.

kurtamaxxguy · January 2005

I've not driven a VW six but noted the 4-cyl 2004 Jetta I rented had very little low end torque ..vs.. the Malibu Maxx I normally drive (its V6 loves to bark tires at lower revs). Also noted the Jetta was spinning at 3000+ rpm around 60 mph while the Maxx was loafing at under 2000.

Hopefully the 2006 Jetta will have less problems than the Maxx/Malibu did (first year cars as of late seem to have a lot of problems).

dewey · January 2005

"always thought that a diesel would make a good - hybrid power source"

http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000597026670/

Well maybe not in a VW Jetta but in a GM. Refer to the website above. This is the first GM that I would consider purchasing. A hybrid diesel VW Lupo or Polo would sell amazing in Europe/Asia. A hybrid diesel Jetta/Passat would give Toyota/Honda a run for their money in North America.

I think the lack of interest in diesl hybrids is anonther instance where VW dropped the ball(especially when VW is probably the #1 diesel car manufacturer worldwide)

ivan_99 · January 2005

I would still "guess" that the Accord, and most V6's, will probably be more refined than the 2.0T.

The question will be by how much...and if it is really perceivable.

The 2.0T is also a direct injection so from what Ive read it appears that the throttle response (engine response) has been improved greatly. i.e. Press the gas and GO. I suspect there would still be a slight turbo lag from a stand still.

On a side note I recall reading separate articles on the Volvo V50, one report proclaimed that there was NO turbo lag, the other reported that despite the turbo lag it was livable paraphrasing.

I suspect some people will expect NO turbo lag and will be disappointed and some will say its nearly undetectable.

i do miss the "german" road feel from the jetta 1.8t i had earlier but i don't miss the hesitation of the line and the lag when accelerating out of a corner though. and the current jetta 5 speed auto is abrupt at times

As you know the new one will have a 6 speed autoalthough personally I have reservations that this automatic will finally behave as a manual. Ive never driven an auto that did what I wanted it to. I actually find it quit annoying. The DSG or manual would be my solution to that.

creakid1 · January 2005

"On a side note I recall reading separate articles on the Volvo V50, one report proclaimed that there was NO turbo lag, the other reported that despite the turbo lag it was livable paraphrasing."

True turbo lag means the period of zero boost, then there's the boost-build-up time until full boost. So even w/o the lag, there's still a throttle-response softness or delay!

venus537 · January 2005

the mazda 2.3 is no match to honda's 2.4. its torque curve is much broader. the TSX's weight does hinder low end performance however, but it would be worse if it had the mazda 2.3.

when these engines are in cars with similar weight (accord and mazda6) it's the 2.4 that shines in comparison.

i haven't driven the volvo S40 2.4 but from what i read it suffers the same fate as an auto tsx in low end power.

i suspect that VW's 2.0t will put all these engines to shame and its 2.5 will work very well with the 6 speed auto. will be interesting to see how refined the 2.5 is though.

ivan_99 · January 2005

I recall reading...somewhere, that Audi had a technique that elimiated turbo boost. I can't recall now. It sort of "precharged" them up and used that until the exhaust started flowing... This was a couple years ago...might have been on the Bently.

Guess that doesn't help here, but interesting.

creakid1 · January 2005

These MkV GTI 2.0T reports mentioned about upshifting the manual transmission w/ no loss in boost.

Once I drove an '86 or '87 Saab 900 turbo stick. When I upshifted during max acceleration, it was impossible to accelerate smoothly due to the boost that disappeared during shifting. Then I had to wait for the boost to build up again in the next gear. My conclusion was that turbo's are undrive-able w/ stick!

lmx · January 2005

with the new jetta v volkswagen has hit the north american market right on target...New dimensions,new rear independant suspension,slick 6 speed automatic,crome,wood trim with aluminum accent,new and revised interior that would put a bmw 3 series owner wondering!i saw the car and it is more impressive than all the pictures i saw...the best europeen alternative ever to hit this car market...i can't wait for the gli...

lmx · January 2005

hey andrew the price of a new mkv jetta for the us market is going to be not more than 500.00$ higher than the base 4th generation...higher technologie is somewhere more affortable for car manifacturer....and vw doesn't want to lose a very competitive car segment that the jetta has...the best selling europeen car in north america!

ivan_99 · January 2005

dudleyr · January 2005

Diesel wagon with manual transmission. Hope they make one.

robaubey · January 2005

Hello, Does anyone have any information on a new Jetta wagon? Will the roll out in March also include wagons? I have not been able to find any info since the announcement of the new version.

lmx · January 2005

no,unfortunatly the new wagon will be available only in 2006.Remember that our actual wagon is only 2.5 year old...

robaubey · January 2005

So... will the current Jetta wagon continue to be sold through 2006? or will they discontinue the wagon for the year since it wouldn't be of the same design as the new Jetta sedan? Basically are we without a Jetta wagon after March?

lmx · January 2005

no,they will stay with the current wagon,and it will be available as the current model...

a_l_hubcaps · January 2005

I just read that a new Jetta Diesel with the highest option package comes to $27695 MSRP! I almost fell off my chair. If VW thinks they're going to get that much for a vehicle with ~110 horsepower and a questionable reliability record, they're nuts.

-Andrew L

dewey · January 2005

"27695 MSRP! I almost fell off my chair. If VW thinks they're going to get that much for a vehicle with ~110 horsepower and a questionable reliability record, they're nuts."

I think it would be nuttier for anyone to load their Jettas with so many options to begin with! If you look at the Jetta base price or with a reasonable level of options it may not sound so crazy after all.

You can make this argument about options with any car!!

jeffyscott · January 2005

The current model can get up to comparable list price too and its a smaller car.

The "base" model will reportedly still be around $18K list. That will have everything we would want (assuming it includes all that the current base model includes) except auto trans and maybe ESP. This is the same price as the current smaller Jetta...a car we would not consider as it is just too small.

HP number for a diesel is always going to be low because the max RPM is low. Low RPM torque, which is more meaningful, is high for diesels...current TDI model has max torque of 177 ft-lbs at only 1800 rpm.

Anyone who is buying a car based solely on HP numbers is not going to buy a diesel.

lmx · January 2005

if you look at the tdi injector pump technology ,it is the best by far in the world today 177 pd -feet of torque is amazing!what other car in this market today gives choice of e.s.p. and side curtain protection plus a 5 speed automatic with tiptronic...none under 30000.00$

lmx · January 2005

it's actully for 2006 an manuel 5 speed or a 6 speed d.s.g gearbox sorry

a_l_hubcaps · January 2005

I agree that the base Jetta is a good deal at that price, but I spent some time poking around the vwvortex forums, and it seems that VW is intent on limiting the build on the lower models and trying to push the higher levels. According to one dealer over there, the initial product mix will put the highest option package on 40%(!) of production, which is the one that comes in around $27K. That's absurd, IMHO. I've never been a big VW fan, but I just don't see what this car has going for it. If you are interested in tech features and fuel economy, you can get a Prius with every option for about that price. If you are interested in a sport sedan, you can get a Mazda 6S with every option for about that price. I just don't see who is going to buy this car, except VW loyalists.

-Andrew L

dewey · January 2005

Correct 40% would be the core VW loyalists.

While 60% would be the smart frugal types who wants something close to the base model. VW will not be able to limit the base model if the market demands it by placing orders!!

Restricting low option models---good luck to VW if that is the case.

fish8 · January 2005

Have you ever driven a VW?

a_l_hubcaps · January 2005

fish8-

Nope. But in a sense, that's precisely my point. I've looked at the specs on the car (well, those that are available -- VW STILL has not posted a full press release), I've looked at the pricing, I've looked at the reliability record for the current generations, and there's nothing there that would compel me to test drive a Jetta if I were shopping in the segment. VW's sales are declining and they need to attract new people, not just the same ones who have been buying VWs for years. Trying to position the new Jetta as a luxury vehicle is the wrong way to do that, particularly since it doesn't look like a luxury vehicle and the specs don't read like one. If I were running VW, I would boost the Value Package production to about 30% of total and the GLI (Turbo) production to about 20% of total. I think those two models have the most going for them. The loaded-up 2.5 and Diesel cars will get lost in the very competetive entry-luxury segment.

-Andrew L

dudleyr · January 2005

The base Jetta will be very affordable, and still well equiped. 26k would be for a loaded model - with options probably not even available on many competitors. They are just covering a broader market.

Size and cost are not always directly related - if they were, then diamonds would be cheap.

jeffyscott · January 2005

Well we have never owned a VW and I think we will be test driving one for my wife to consider buying. She was attracted to the Jaguar X-type, but they won't build what she wants (yay)...if they would it would likely sell for ~$26K with the current incentives. Based just on pictures she is currently considering the new Jetta (which reportedly looks much better in person) and The Volvo S40. She is very particular about what she wants her next car to look like (I think she is rebeling after 16 years of driving minivans :-)).

Of course, we would be looking at the base model with very few options in either case, they both already include pretty much everything we would want and more. I like the look of the current Passat a lot (I don't like the engine choices though), but my wife thinks it is just okay looking. She likes the look of the current Jetta, but it is just too small. We don't need a huge back seat but would like it to be usable.

$27K sounds like a lot to me too, but different people have different ideas about what they want in a car. Why are people willing to pay $27K or more for an Audi A4 or an Acura TSX?

The upgraded VW would have leather (which I hate, but most people like, for some unfathomable reason), sunroof (a mostly useless feature to me, but most people want one) and a more powerful engine (though I am not sure that a turbo is appealing to most americans...they'd probably do better with a V-6...but at least they can put out some big HP number with the Turbo, which is what the average dope wants to hear).

We are certainly different from the average car buyer, but I do think the average car buyer is more likely to consider the new Jetta than the old Jetta. But it may be that VW will be stealing their new Jetta customers from the Passat, I don't know...

maxamillion1 · January 2005

NAME recognition.

VW is trying WAY WAY WAY too hard to go upmarket and it's a dumb idea IMO...especially considering that VW has AUDI....

Personally, I like the new Jetta, I don't have a problem with it at all, but the pricing is getting to be a little too high IMO.

Acura and Audi sure as hell sound more upscale than VW. Sure enough VW is up there with High class materials and what not, but at least for Acura, they can say they have better than average reliablity. Audi can't though.

My point is that VW was once known as the "People's Car" and its getting to be too expensive.

Hell, $27K-29K should be the price where the V6 Passats began to stop...much less a darn Jetta.

But oh well, it WILL sell I bet.

jrct9454 · January 2005

I too am concerned about the pricing decisions being made on this car. Apparently, the dealer body is already getting nervous about the option mix, and what that is going to do to the average MSRP, on the new Jetta.

It's plain to me that VW is simply overreaching in the North American market. And it isn't so much the pricing alone, but how those prices compare with the competition, and how the dealers [especially the service experience from the average dealer] are perceived by the vast majority of owners and potential owners. If you have a GOOD VW dealer near you, this may be a car to consider, but I can tell you that based on my experience in our area [Portland OR], it's hard to put any VW at the top of most shopping lists.

Right now, you can buy a very heavily optioned current-gen Passat for $21-$25k, depending on GL or GLS, leather or not, etc. Plunking a bunch of Jettas on the lot with MSRPs in the mid-$20s sounds like more of the corporate suicide for which VW has become famous in the American market.

My primary interest is in the TDI; if they are going to want upwards of $26k for a DSG Jetta TDI, they will have to sell it to someone else....no matter how "good" the car is.

And yes, I've driven everything in the current lineup, before someone asks...

jeffyscott · January 2005

I guess I kind of discounted the claim that 40% would be the $27K version. I doubt that is going to be the long term ratio. I just read a post on the vwvortex (what a crazy place that is) from a dealer that indicates 25% of their initial allocation are base models. I have quoted that below:

"They are due to arrive in the 1st week of March.

5 black ones, 1 blue graphite, 2 wheat beige

3 have PHX or "package 2 with XM"

3 have PML or "midline package"

the others have no options"

Just a guess...maybe when a new model comes out they like to have more than the usual number of expensive versions, just in case there is a bunch of "gotta have it now at any price" people popping up. I remember a few years ago people were paying crazy high prices to get their hands on a PT Cruiser. More recently people are paying any price to get a Prius. Probably this is not going to happen with the Jetta...but maybe they are hoping for a little of that???

dewey · January 2005

How can VW impose expensive options on a customer?

Just place an order with the exact options you want and patiently wait 1-2 months.

Can VW say no if you want to place an order? I dont think so?

a_l_hubcaps · January 2005

jeffyscott-

Yeah, the 40% number came from one salesperson's post on vwvortex, so I have no proof that it's accurate, but no grounds for doubting either. By the way, here's the context of that number:

"Basically 4 cars. Manual or automatic in all, I think. I did hear that the Value might be automatic only, but I may be wrong, I'll check. Initially, there will be no Value Editions--see those May/June as 06 models. At first, 40% Pkg 1, 40% Pkg 2, 20% 2.5."

Package 2 is the one that comes in around $27K. Of course, once the Value Package and GLI models come in those numbers will have to change, because the three of them add to 100% already :-P But it still seems like a risky mix to start with, and more importantly it seems like a sign that VW does not understand where it ought to direct the bulk of its energy in the US market.

I mean, it could be much worse...they could have designed a car that was actually bad. This Jetta seems like it has potential for success IF they realize that it is not a luxury car and make it widely available with sensible options. It's silly to have cars with $27K stickers sitting on the lot and make people order and wait if they want a basic model.

-Andrew L

april_c · January 2005

Hi Kristie,

I'm actually thinking of buying the new 2006 Jetta... but speaking with from my husband owns, I would recommend the Infinity G35. I use to sell BMW's and I still love the G35. Take a look, it's about the same cost- but better inside and out.

Good Luck!

Aprl~

jeffyscott · January 2005

I think its probably accurate, I just don't think that it reflects anything more than the initial batch of cars. Not surprising that they do not want to start out with a bunch of the "cheap" ones. But I will look forward to checking out the value model next summer...assuming the car is still appealing to us after we check it out at the local auto show next month.

The other dealer's reference to "no options" must have meant the 2.5 version, rather than the value model, as I had assumed...since the value will not be available until later.

A post from Jan 6 here by maxamillion1 indicated the Tdi base will be $21,385/$22,460 and that he had heard that the tdi can get up to over $27K. Assuming the options really are only these packages, that implies package 2 must be at least $4K (adding a $600 or so destination charge). The 2.5 is about $1000 less according to his info...so I guess that one would be over $26K with package 2.

This package 2 includes Sunroof, alloy wheels, prem. sound, XM, leather, wood, power front seats (12 way) and steering wheel controls. I don't think its surprising a package like that would be $4K+...and I realize that your point was not the cost of this package.

My guess would be that, in the longer term, the most popular version will be the 2.5 with package 1 and automatic, which will list about $23,500...according to that Jan 6 post.

a_l_hubcaps · January 2005

I finally found some official specs info on this car at:

http://media.vw.com/press_kits.cfm?vehicle_id=601

Click on the three links under "Product Information". This stuff may have been there all along...they never posted it on the main page of the media site like all the other releases, so I didn't notice it.

-Andrew L

fish8 · January 2005

How are you comparing the '06 Jetta with a G35? They are in completely different classes. One is a luxury car and one is characterized as a compact. Not only that but the price differences are more than $10,000.

Volkswagen Jetta 2006+

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