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2004-2009 Toyota Prius Prices Paid and Buying Experience
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Comments
when you can get it. I sure hope not.
Regarding the teenage son, I can't think of a better car for him to begin his driving career since it will move him away from "How fast from 0 to 6t0" towards, "How far can I go on a quart of gas". You can tell the young Turk, "You come back showing less than 45MPG, you've just turned into a pedestrian!"
Although I'm certainly no tax expert, I do file my own return so I have some superficial familiarity with the tax code. 2005 and 2006 are very different years with respect to the tax relief afforded Prius purchasers. For 2005, there was a $2,000 tax deduction which did amount to an out of pocket savings of $500 for taxpayers in the 25% bracket. Those in a higher bracket got still more. In 2006, this was changed to a $3,150 tax credit which unlike a deduction is a dollar for dollar credit against your tax liability so the savings are much more powerful regardless of your tax bracket. But, as you indicate, there are a couple of caveats:
1. There is no tax refund, per se, provided. For you to get the $3150 tax credit, you must owe at least $3150 in taxes.
If you only owe $2500 in taxes, that is the cap on Prius credit. They don't give you any way of carrying over the unused portion of the credit ($650) into a subsequent tax year or carrying it back into a previous tax year.
2. Since the refund comes back to you, you must also be the one who actually purchases the car. For example, if you want to give your teen age daughter a Prius, to get the credit, you have to buy the car. If you provide her the funds to buy the car, and she buys it, she, not you, will qualify, (or non-qualify) for the tax credit. So when you effect a transaction like this, you want to be sure that regardless of how the vehicle is registered, that the purchase order indicates that you are buying the car. There are some creative ways of dealing with this (joint ownership etc) and a tax advisor would be helpful in steering you in the right direction.
3. If you are ensnared by the Alternative Minimum Tax for CY2006, this can indeed affect the value of the credit and you would do well to discuss this with a tax guru to determine if you can shape your CY2006 return to maximize the credit recovery.
BTW, the most important tax "credit" you get driving one of these cars is the diminished Federal and State taxes you pay on the gas you consume. Depending on the vehicle the Prius replaced, the tax revenue being squeezed out of you drops anywhere from 35 - 80% ! In the micro, you are making out like a mink, but in the macro, it turns into a zero sum game because if EVERYBODY's tax bit dropped that much it would wreck havoc with the Federal revenue intake and you know darn well that the gummint would figure out some other inventive way of squeezing it back out of you. This bizarre consequence plays itself out in other venues also. For example, it's eloquently argued that if we eliminated alcohol and tobacco as staples for consumption, the decrease in the cost of the social mayhem and terrible diseases caused by these products would be enormous. But the flip side is that the government collects billions upon billions dollars in tax revenue on these products and one way or the other, we will all end up paying for the shortfall if these highly taxed products were no longer sold. It's all so weird, I'm gonna have to go for a quiet drive in my Prius, just to calm down..........
I went for another test drive today, this time in a 2005 "B" package Prius with 22,000 km+ on it. Took a good long test drive this time, as the car already had lots of km on it so I didn't feel guilty or obligated. Had fun watching all the things posted here and in PriusChat and Priusonline. "B" package, for those Americans too lazy to check Toyota.ca,
I've now saved up enough money to buy, once I sell my RX-7. I'm getting anxious!
This happend to me this weekend. On Friday night, I was called by Puente Hills Toyota (35 miles from where I am) that they just received 3 #3's, I can get one at MSRP. I showed up 10 sharp, now the car has "wood" dash, and $2K more. I told the sales person, if I can peel it off, then they should peel the $2K off, if I can't, I gladly pay the $2K extra. She stopped me, and said, why don't you make an offer and see what "management" thinks. We set down, she wanted me to put personal info (name, address, jobs, etc) on a credit application. I said, look, why you need all these info just to see if managers take my MSRP offer. Even DMV does not require these info. She kept telling me it is their standard procedure, and how it helps them help customers. And I told her, I am paying the money, so they should respect my wishes. This went for 10 minutes. I kept asking her, why can't I just talk to a sales manager and see if he wants to take it or not. Finally, a guy came by, greeted himself, then said, "NO, we put this wood dash in, and we are going to get something for it. And if you are on wait list at other dealerships in SoCal, good luck because they too are going to take your car and loaded it up accessories to sell to retail customers." For sure I will never buy, or tell anyone to try Puente Hills. And I have no respect for anyone who bad-mouth their peers/competitors.
I suspect many Toyota dealers are all doing this, bypassing their waitlist customers so they can load up $2-5K of junk on retail customers. This is why I am wondering, who does Toyota really care about, us the endusers, or the dealers?
I made a call to a leasing company and they can get me a black/blue Prius at $100 discount, and perhaps a white one in 2 weeks.
I think I am going to wait until a middle of the week to check again to see if prices get lower. Then if not, buy from the leasing company.
It amazes me how dealers are treating customers and potential customers. But since they are still doing it, it must still be working. So it saddens me, how in the age of Internet and books, people still do not arm themselves with information and strategies on such big $$$ purchase. $ 2K save is $50/month on car payments!!!!
Why must dealers make potential customers make "offers" first? Shouldn't they be the one working their numbers down, until customers are satisfied? Instead, I feel like I am throwing numbers, and they are the ones deciding if they are satisfied?
And why do dealers want my personal info just to make an offer? Are they hoping to drag the process so long that I make stupid decisions?
I really like Toyota's but sure hate the buying experience. Must admit the only ones that did it right was Saturn (10 years ago now). But GM seems to have screwed that up too.
Is Canada offering any incentive on the Prius similar to the U.S. tax credit etc.?
Will the leasing company sell you a Prius or will you have to lease it from them?
Anybody in these times who gets abused by an automobile dealer flat out deserves. Considering how much attention the media has paid to dubious car selling techniques and the wealth of information available on forums like this one, I can't muster much sympathy for someone bleeding buyer remorse all over the place. This is not rocket science and good information is widely available. As I mentioned before, it comes down to the three kinds of people that inhabit this planet: the ones that make it happen; the ones that watch it happen and the ones that belatedly moan "What happened?" The "What happened" group ends up being speared like fish in a barrel. It's a commercial illustration of the survival of the fittest.
Interestingly this leasing company (in SoCal) is taking orders for 2007 Prius. The touring package does look tempting, but probably won't arrive before Sept.
My fear with filling out credit application is ID theft. But you made a great point about affecting my credit score.
Be sure that purchasing the car from a leasing agency, as opposed to an OEM dealer doesn't adversely affect the qualification for a tax credit. I wouldn't accept the leasor's representation regarding this since they might very well not know or care, or both. A Google search with "Prius Tax Credit" brings back a wealth of information and sources for determining this. And, of course, remember that if you get nailed with the AMT for CY2006, your tax credit is butchered. It's a jungle out there!
Thanks for the compliment!
Thanks also for the info about being able to wait until just before the 3 year warranty being up to purchase the extended warranty.
I'm not sure which warranty package, but I believe it was an additional 3 years. so, I guess it is the first one.
3/50,000 I know it gave me 6 years of coverage for all but normal wear and tear stuff like brakes, window wipers etc. I'll have to dig up my paperwork.
I did get a call back from my sales person indicating that there were a couple of people "ahead of me". Makes me wonder. If all the 2006 are already produced, how can there be a waiting list for color and package? Do you have any ideas on that?
librarychick94
Once the warranty goes into effect, you have a 30 day window in which to cancel the warranty for a full refund. After that, any refund is on a pro rata basis.
With respect to the waiting list, even though Toyota is already building 2007 models at the factory, they still
keep a supply of 2006 vehicles that they meter into the distribution channel to minimize the dry period when you can no longer get this years model but it's still to early to get next years model. No manufacturer likes this window to be of significant duration because it invites a prospective customer to consider another brand. Thr reason that the waiting list situation is a little murky is that the dealers don't necessarily know what cars they will be getting until fairly shortly before delivery. Sometimes, they will get cars in without any notice whatsoever. There is also another factor that is transparent to the customer -dealer to dealer accomodation. While on one level, dealers are in vigorous competition with each other, on another level, dealers often help each other out by exchanging inventory to help another dealer complete a sale. The factory encourages but doesn't require this level of cooperation. So the car you get may have originally be assigned to another dealer.
But not to worry. You'll probably get exactly or close to what you want. Get ready for a whole new life style, cause the only thing foxier than a library chick is a library chick driving a Prius!
So what are the popular colors in NoCal?
Also, get the HOV application on file ASAP.
As a culture, we're all really a bunch of idiots. Every culture has its essential mediums for expressing personal color preferences but using the automobile as a venue for expressing it, is just bizarre. We (or the OEM) spend thousands of dollars for painting a car to make it look pretty on the outside, KNOWING that it will be doomed by rain, snow, smog, road salt, sun, rust, bird droppings, fender benders and vandals. Then we proceed to climb inside the car where we can't see the paint. All we can see inside is the car interior, which is dull beige, duller grey or deathly black. The only color we get to see are the paint colors OTHER people have chosen for their cars. Surely there has to be a more benign environment for expressing our color choices than having it defaced by the concerted cruel assaults of nature and man. If we had a scintilla of common sense, we would demand every car be totally galvanized, including the brake pedals! So why do we do this? There can only be one reason: Somewhere deeply recessed in our DNA there is the vestigial element of the birds from which we evolved. Our cars represent our awkward attempt to fly, the horn dimly replicates the chirp and the colors we bathe them in represent our pitiful efforts to regain some plumage. It's time we faced up to the fact that wasting money painting a car is ....just for the birds.
Popular colors for Northern Cal? The dominant colors in no particular order seem to be blue, green and gold with white, silver and red trailing behind and black at the bottom of the list. I think that in the warmer climate areas of the country that the incidence of white would be substantially higher.
Oh, and you can see the hood (and the sides in the mirrors, unless you don't use those
Well, OK, I'm willing to compromise. Paint the hood and the sides but galvanize all the rest. Actually, I think the bodywork of cars in the future will pretty much be a recyclable composite material. And now that you've got me started, no car should have a body panel more than 12" x 12". On half the cars made today, if you have to replace a front fender, the first part of the procedure is: "Remove rear tail light......." And that's only half of it - the tail light you remove to start the repair is on the opposite side of the damage.
Not being born yesterday, I have learned that a car salesman is capable of saying anything to sell a car. I am confident that if what he said turned out not to be true, when tax time came around he would not remember making any such statements.
You can claim the full credit for a "car that has been put into service by the consumer" by September 30th.
After that, the credit will be reduced by half = $1575.
See the Toyota web site under Prius - it's all pretty much spelled out there...
===
Toyota/Lexus Hybrid sales exceed the 60,000 threshold.
Toyota/Lexus hybrid sales from January 1, 2006 through May 31, 2006 totaled 68,637. As TMS reached the 60,000 cumulative hybrid sales threshold during the 2nd Quarter 2006, credits will therefore be reduced by one-half beginning with vehicles put into service by consumers after September 30, 2006. Please see calendar below for the TMS hybrid tax credit phase out schedule. (this is a graphic)
hth
So for you, the issue devolves to what the proper definition of "purchase" is. Does "purchase" require only a contract commitment, or does it also require the physical delivery of the vehicle? In IRS IR2006-26, the IRS in providing details regarding the tax credit states: "The tax credit for hybrid vehicles applies to vehicles purchased on or after January 1, 2006....." There is no information contained in the release as to whether a physical delivery is required.
On the other hand, summary I found on Google regarding this issue states as follows regarding qualifying for the 2006 tax credit:
3. "The purchaser must accept delivery of the Hybrid vehicle from the dealer on or after January 1, 2006...."
5. The purchaser must retain appropriate documentation showing the purchase of the vehicle and the date of the delivery of the vehicle.
The above statements would seem to indicate that physical delivery is an essential component of "purchase".
What you should determine is whether your paperwork is completed on Sept 20, or whether there will be additional documentation involved when the vehicle physically arrives.
Since a VIN has been assigned, if you can actually start the registration process now, that might be sufficient documentation to meet the IRS criteria.
IMO, it's worth taking the shot. In the worst case you lose $1575 of the tax credit, but remember that at this late date, the day after you purchase a 2006, it has depreciated at least this much more than the depreciation you incur the day after you purchase the 2007.
This is a great forum with a lot of good discussions. I have learned a lot here and am certainly excited owning my own Prius in the near future with or without the full tax credit.
I do like how 2007 options are packaged, and like the touring package. Just wondering which package would be sold in CA?
Cash Price 27768.00
Document Prep 45.00
Smog Fee -0-
Sales Tax 2155.21 (Doc Fee is taxable!)
License & Reg 231.00
CA Tire Fee 8.75
California sales tax is a little higher than the national average. It isn't uniform throughout the state. The basic rate is 7 1/4% but different counties piggyback sales tax increments on the basic rate. The sales tax percentage you will incur does not depend on where the vehicle is purchased. It's determined by the county and city in which it is registered. The registration fees which used to be horrendous were reduced when Governor Schwarznegger delivered on an election campaign promise to rescind the hiked registration fees implemented by Grey Davis.
The California Board of Equalization does have a policy regarding trade in values that is infuriating. For example, in the case of the above tabulation, a vehicle was traded in at the value of $7800.00. In some states, this amount is subtracted from the sales price of the new vehicle, reducing the amount of sales tax levied. In this case, it represents a tax increment of $604.50 which would not be paid in a state that permits the new vehicle sales price to be offset by any trade in value. There is no practical way of avoiding this without going through the convoluted process of having the car delivered to an adjacent state and developing a record of operating the vehicle for one year or more outside the state. Of course, the vehicle will have to be registered in some state for that period and the state of choice for this region is Oregon which has a uniquely low vehicle registration fee. Oregon used to be pretty lax with respect to this process but as of late they have started to require some proof of residence in the state. In any event, because it involves a lot of work and hassle, it really isn't cost effective for the sales tax incurred with a Prius. Now if we were talking about a 300,000.00 luxury motor home, the equation would be somewhat different.
There isn't an awful lot of difference between the 2006 and 2007 packages. The base MSRP is fractionally cheaper than 2006, but for 2007, the VSC option is now a required option in every package but No. 1. Also I think for 2007, the Sirius/XM radio function has been included. Other than larger wheels, I don't recall the additional features the touring model offers. I'm not sure that the bigger wheels really accomplishes much particularly if it results in a tire size that is significantly more expensive to renew.
Which packages will be sold in California? I sure wish I had a rabbi somewhere high up in the Toyota food chain that could provide a heads up in this regard. I think it's safe to assume that the touring model(s) will be offered in CA, but I'm not sure that for marketing purposes, CA is just one market. It may break down into sub-markets with a different distribution profile for each one. Frankly, I think it sucks that a customer can't purchase any package of their choice from any dealer in the country, but the demand for this class of vehicle is so powerful that they can call the shots even though it looks wrong from our end. I'm reminded of an exchange I had almost a half century ago with the owner of a business for which I was a purchasing agent. I was cogently explaining why a particular purchasing policy he implemented was costing us money, and he replied: "Son, last year I made over a million dollars and now you're telling me I did it the wrong way...." And that was the end of that conversation.
While it's probably too late to get a HOV sticker, what is the procedure of getting one? Do I ask the dealer to file it? Or do I file it? Before getting the plate? Or after getting the plate?
2007's options seem better packaged because CA only gets package 1, 3, 7 and 8. And I think 16" tires may give better handling (but probably at the expense of mileage due to additional friction/weight). But what I really want is factory Sirius/XM. I know it's cheaper after-market, but nothing beats a well integrated system, and the good deals offered with factory systems (I pay $7/month for XM in my Honda Pilot).
If anyone has experience with purchasing Priuses in the Chicago area (as I've seen several on the street) please share. It most certainly would help first-time hybrid buyers like us.
Also, what is the deal with the taxes? Would it be good for '07 for the same $3150 amount as in '06 (for the first 60k cars sold)?
Thanks,
Virgil
You have 12 days to take deliver of a Prius to get the full tax credit. After that it is 1/2 of the full amount for 3 months, then 1/4 of the amount for another 6 months. Thereafter, nada, zip, zilch.
You mean that more than 60k Priuses for '07 are already pre-ordered? What is the deal with 12 days? AFAIK, the wait time from ordering to delivery is measured in months, not days.
Finally, how is the deal with the taxes? I read that you are eligible for the tax deduction only if you owe money on the taxes, but not if the gov't owes you. Is this true?
Can you please clarify these?
Best,
Virgil
Finally, how is the deal with the taxes? I read that you are eligible for the tax deduction only if you owe money on the taxes, but not if the gov't owes you. Is this true?"
The "12 days" was the time until Oct 1. There is no limit on the number of hybrids that can get the full tax credit, so long as they take delivery of the vehicle by 30 Sep 2006. So unless you can find one and take delivery in the next "11 days", you will only get 1/2 of the tax credit.
You have to owe taxes to get a tax credit. It is not money back; it is a reduction of the amount of taxes you have to pay.
There may be more authoratative experts on this forum than me, but I believe the tax deduction you were thinking applies for pre-Jan 1, 2006 hybrid purchases, which lets buyers deduct a variable amount off their taxable income when filing for income tax. For Jan. 1, 2006 or after, you get a straight $ 3150 tax credit on a Toyota Prius (less for other models and for Honda's). That is $ 3150 less on your federal income tax. So if you owe more taxes, you pay $ 3150 less, and if you are getting some (refunds) back, add $ 3150 to your uncle Sam tax refund check. Sure makes the Prius costs more tolerable doesn't it?
But this tax credit does not apply to tax filers who also AMT taxes, which applies for a lot of folks who owns businesses and/or rental properties. Only your accountants and your conscience can determine that.
The 12 days mentioned here is perhaps in reference to when the $ 3150 gets reduced to half ($1575). So if you get your Prius before Sept. 30, you get the $ 3150 tax credit. Between Oct and Dec, $ 1575, and the quarter after that, half of $ 1575, then nil.
If you don't get one by Sept. 30, I think it would be better to wait until Nov-Dec to get a 2007. You will get a newer car, a Touring model (as you said in your earlier posting), and perhaps a good discount off the MSRP. I think with gas prices coming down so quickly (for how long is another ??), and no $ 3150 tax credit, there will be Prius disconts finally. I also suspect people to buy Honda Civic Hybrids too, which will still have $ 2600 (I think) tax credit for some time to come.
As for me, I hope my 2007 will arrive before Sept 30. If not, I will follow my own suggestion and wait until Nov-Dec.
News in LA Times has mentioned Midwest gas prices dropping the fastest in the nation. So perhaps you won't even have to wait for long for Prius discount.
Good luck. CK
has just authorized issuing 10,000 more so that should cover purchases over the next few months.
Get some people to carpool with you like HOV lanes intended usage O=occupancy not miles/gal.
Close, but the 1/4 value runs for 6 months.
Thank you for your advice. We'll follow it in hopes for a better deal. We're probably have a refund on our taxes for '06. Some other people on the forum say that in that case you lose the tax deduction forever. Interestingly enough, on the IRS 8910 form there's nothing mentioned about that. Anyway, if that's the case, then we're not going to rush into it.
We can also choose to buy the car from either the Bay Area or Chicago. When you pre-ordered yours, did you get a good deal (over, @ or under MSRP)? How was the process? Was the dealer pushy? If you can share some real-life information with us, it would certainly help us do our homework better before going in.
So far, we only know that when we rented a '05 for a week in California we enjoyed every minute of driving it.
Best regards,
Virgil
We can also choose to buy the car from either the Bay Area or Chicago.
For openers, there is no tax deduction involved. The tax deduction ended in CY2005. For CY2006, it is a tax credit rather than a deduction which is much more powerful because it is a dollar for dollar credit against your tax liability. Whether or not you get a tax refund is completely irrelevant. As long as you have a tax liability for CY2006 in excess of $3150, any Prius delivered prior to September 30 will fully qualify you for the credit as long as you don't run afoul of the Alternative Minimum Tax. One caveat: the vehicle must be purchased in the name of the taxpayer(s). While your 10 year old child is just as legally qualified as an adult for the tax credit, it is unlikely that the child has any tax liability to offset.
The significant difference between purchasing the vehicle in Chicago and California is the substantial difference in the vehicle warranty which favors California and the other CARB states. Illinois is not one of those states. Additionally, a California original registration will qualify you for the HOV stickers which are still being issued because of an extension of the program by the Governor.
Frontier Toyota doesn't do waitlists or accept deposits over the phone, which means you have to come in twice-- once to do the paperwork to purchase the vehicle (no money changes hands, but you get a VIN number), and a second time when the vehicle actually arrives on the dealer lot 7-10 days later. This would be a major hassle for anyone coming from afar, except they do get 20+ Priuses every two weeks or so which is more than just about any other dealership, so the odds of getting one right after you call are good even though nothing is guaranteed till the moment you walk in the door.
I had a very positive experience dealing with them, and would recommend them to anyone on this forum.
Base $32,175
Options $1,749
Manuf. Delv, Proc & Hndlg $675
Subtotal $34,599
I'm amazed anyone would pay this much for one!
I cannot and will not comment on what dealers anywhere are charging, but my advice is not, NOT to order one over MSRP.
Now, I understand that the car is a 'hot ticket' item and dealers will not move from the MSRP, but I wouldn't pay anything above that.
I posted the blurb about Toyota of Escondido for the SOCAL folks and I forgot to mention that they do sell at MSRP and applicable delivery charge. Mine was a level 3 at...$23K and thats what I was charged. Look, if you want to pay $27K or so for a level 7 or $30K for a level 8, then you have more money than I do. Do you really need the Bluetooth option (I have it on my cell phone and it cost me $65 vice the $$$ they want). Is the navigation system worth the $$$ they want (I put one in mine for about $250)? Is the upgraded sound system a must item? Do you really want leather seats and steering wheel? I guess you will have to ask yourselves the questions and make the decisions, but do so wisely.
Later!!