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Toyota Prius vs VW Golf TDI

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  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    So this is the conclusion so far:

    Moparbad uses a not so well known publication in order to prove that a group of not so well known auto reviewers dont like taking a spin on a Prius

    Reality: The Prius has the highest ownership satisfaction rate among all autos (Consumers Report). If you want to find out how satisfying a Prius is why not ask the owners instead?

    Gagrice likes his Sequoia and old Lexus and strongly urges all Prius owners to buy a Yaris instead.

    Reality: What the hell has this got to do with this discussion.

    Marlyece thinks that all members should be left alone to enjoy the Golf.

    Reality: Before you issue a restraining order did you ever bother looking at the title of this forum?

    Thammer62 presents to everyone the positives and negatives about both VW TDI and the Prius

    Reality: How on earth are we suppose to have a debate when you are so agreeable? ;)

    Bottom line: THe VW TDI does not even come close to being as fuel efficient as a Prius. The VW TDI is highly uncomfortable for a fifth rear passenger when compared to a Prius. It lacks the great technology that a Prius has. It's not much better than the prior generation VW TDI. It's a complex new diesel and with VW's track record in terms of reliabilty that can be very bad news. The VW TDI is pathetic in terms of fuel mileage in slow city traffic. The Prius is a great fuel miser on both the highway and slow city traffic. The Golf has a long history of reliability issues. The VW TDI uses diesel which can fluctuate far more than gasoline and as a result a higher degree of unpredicable fuel costs. It's harder to find diesel than gasoline which can be a big inconvenience.

    Oh yes and did I forget to mention that the Prius has the highest ownership satisfaction among all cars. I thought I did. :blush: I

    OK now I can leave all you VW Golf fans alone.

    No need for that restraining order.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,689
    Oh yes and did I forget to mention that the Prius has the highest ownership satisfaction among all cars.

    If you look to your right you will see the 2010 Prius and the current customer rating. It has gone down. Prius topped out in customer satisfaction with the 2006 MY. While the only current VW in the same class the Jetta TDI has gone above the Prius in customer satisfaction. I would imagine the same will hold true for the Golf TDI when it arrives. So far this is a debate about a vehicle very few have gotten to drive. It will be good when we have input from actual drivers like ourselves. Will the fleet average MPG be as high with the Golf TDI as the Prius. I doubt it. Most people buying the Golf actually like to drive. They enjoy the torque and pull the diesel offers on mountain roads. Something a Prius driver will never experience. I would say that makes ignorance bliss. They can enjoy their spreadsheets showing 54.1 MPG.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Nothing to argue about in your post IMO. The Gen 3 Prius may address the handling issue but that's still to be determined.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,630
    Bear in mind many drivers in the U.S. have no mountain roads to drive on, just a lot of flat prairie and cityscapes. So even though these drivers may "like to drive", the terrain they drive on doesn't offer much challenge that the Prius can't handle.

    Re torque, don't forget that the combined torque of the Prius' powertrain is pretty hefty--258 lb-ft. The Golf TDI may have more usable torque in the mountain passes, but if you don't have mountain passes, it's not a big advantage.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I can't believe that you'd actually use the satisfaction ratings here on Edmunds as proof of anything.

    Do you want to see how I can give the VW Golf an overall rating of 9.8 out of 10 based on 1,000 reviews instead of 8.7 o/o 10 based on 16 reviews?? Give me a couple of days and the VW will have 984 more reviews....all 10's.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Sounds very dubious to me. The Prius has been consistently number one for 5 years in a row.

    How about some facts like the one based on 425,000 responses from the world's biggest automotive survey :

    Consumers Report 2009 Survey
    For the fifth year in a row, the gas/electric Toyota Prius hybrid is the top car for owner satisfaction. That's the news from our latest Annual Car Owner Satisfaction Survey, conducted by the Consumer Reports National Research Center. Ninety-three percent of Prius owners who responded said they would definitely buy or lease one again. The Prius was closely followed by the Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (92 percent) and the new Mini Cooper Clubman (91 percent).

    A 54.1 MPG on a spreadsheet and an overwhelming love for the Prius as expressed consistently for 5 years in the world's biggest auto survey may not amount to much for you. But then again I wont confuse you with facts.

    link title.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,689
    Hopefully the software will not allow that to happen. However I think it is better than the crap we get from a select few zealots that subscribe to CR. So are you saying the supposed Prius owners lied back in 2005 when the rating was at 9.4? I think these two posts say it best about the 2010 Prius.

    Well what can you say. The seats are not comfortable, the ride is numb and disconnected from the road, wind/road noise is at a premium, very jittery over any type of non-smooth pavement. However, going green is the way to go. We need more of these types of cars only with better execution...

    I've owned this 2010 Prius IV for 1500 miles. I've been getting 55-60mpg mixed city and highway. That's about the nicest thing you can say about this car. For the $29k I paid, I expected a LOT more. A mazda3 or a civic and a big gas bill would have been a much better value. The brakes are ridiculous. If you go over a pothole, you're going to lose all braking power for about 3 seconds. For a car with traction control and electronic brake distribution this is simply unacceptable. In power mode the car drives well and has some spunk. Normal and Eco modes are just nanny modes that deaden the accelerator. Thanks, but I know how to drive and like to accelerate without having to floor it.


    Both gave the Prius high marks for Mileage. With the lowest marks for fun to drive. That is the difference between the two cars being debated. Prius has lots of gizmos for the geek with great mileage. The Golf TDI has driver comfort, performance, mileage and handling for the person that really enjoys driving. Should make the choice easy if people really know what they like.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Oh c'mon you cant be serious :confuse:

    Opinions of two people conveys the truth about a Prius.

    Kydsyder, John and myself as a population alone outweighs the opinion of these two disgruntled people.

    There are hundreds of thousands of Prius owners and yes oh yes you will be able to find a few disgruntled owners among them if you search hard enough. Unfortunately the majority of them are the most satisfied auto owners for the last five years. PERIOD!!!

    Golf comfort? Not on the rear seat. Unless you ofcourse you find subcompact comfortable.
    Golf TDI perormance and handling? Oh Puhleeeze. This econobox is a far cry from any performance vehicle.
    Golf Mileage? Subpar when compared to the Prius

    The one advantage about the Golf is that any celebrity would be embarassed to be seen in one. I find the celebrity cachet of the Prius as somewhat annoying since I am a low profile person myself.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,689
    So you are telling me when you get a survey from less than on tenth of one percent of car owners in the USA it is somehow valid? And when you add the fact that people that read that rag are biased with preconceived notions about what is good and what is not good. I subscribed and got screwed following their advice in the 1960s. I won't allow them to sway me ever again. You will never convince me that the big DONATIONS from companies like Toyota do not play into their advice.

    So just how many Prius owners responded. And how many unhappy Prius owners canceled their subscription to CR for being led astray?

    Let's look at the CR report from a scientific angle. For the sake of argument let's say you have 10,000 Camry owners and only 89% would buy another Camry. You have 500 Prius owners with 93% saying they would buy again. Does that make the Prius more popular by some stretch of the imagination? I like my Sequoia in some ways. I would not buy another one because of the PP service from the dealer. Just too many variables to give that 93% any kind of credibility.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Apparently the only thing that will convince you is a car that does not use California gasoline and has tons and tons of ooomph to climb moutains.

    Two highly irrelevant issues here in flat Ontario Canada but highly releveant in the spot where Priuses tend to be most popular: Califronia :P

    Go figure?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,689
    I would guess most CA Prius rarely leave the level cities in the Los Angeles basin and the Bay area. They do fine on smooth freeways in stop and go driving. You hit the nail on the head. I will not buy another gas powered car. Maybe electric if we get a break on our high priced electricity or put in Solar. More than likely just keep what I got and grumble about the crappy gas. In reality CA has neutered the diesels to try and keep them out. They were successful keeping the Honda diesel out of the market here. Now Honda has nothing to compete with Toyota and Ford. The Honda hybrids are not that great and trouble prone. With only a handful of us diehards that like VW diesels it could be we are headed into the dark ages. Maybe every Prius will come with a robot to drive people around. They would look natural in a Prius.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Well anyways Gagrice I myself may end up buying a VW Golf TDI in the future. I own a 83 MB300D and I lived with diesels for almost three decades. But I also love my Prius and I dont think that is a contradiction.

    I just like playing Devil's Advocate and I hope I wasn't too snarky with my last posts. The VW Golf just won the World Car of the Year Award and that in itself says a lot.

    The robot driving the Prius almost exists today with self-park, lane change warning system and those sensors/radar to prevent accidents. Soon there will be no need for a robot.
  • garv214garv214 Posts: 162
    Hmmm...I didn't realize that SF was so flat LOL. For what it is worth, my twin brother loves the Prius (doesn't own one, but will some day) because of its great gas mileage and room for adults in the rear seat. I, on the other hand, would likely favor the Golf diesel (test drove a BMW 335d) because of the combination of fuel economy, torque, and that diesels are offered in some cars that are entertaining to drive. Neither of us is "wrong" our choices are driven (pardon the pun) by what we expect/value in our car and the driving experience. :D
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,689
    Dewey I would not see a contradiction if you owned a Prius and a Hummer. Each has its own strong values. If there are two drivers in a family that both put on a lot of miles why not have a Prius and a Golf TDI. One of my best friends just moved to Maui and took his 2009 Prius with him. It is a great car for that Island. 55 MPH strongly enforced and mostly level driving. Add to that the high price of gas and the Prius is a winner. The Golf TDI would also be wonderful on Maui as they have a great supply of B100 biodiesel. There is a group of celebs that drive diesel cars and PU trucks on the best alternative fuel available.

    Hmmm...I didn't realize that SF was so flat LOL

    OK, I forgot about downtown SF. I wonder if a Prius would be able to make it up some of those very steep streets when it rains. I know many have complained about the traction control leaving them stuck in snow and slick surfaces. The VW Passat TDI that I owned had a switch to give full driving control to the driver. A Big Plus.
  • I'll just give my two cents worth. Never owned a Prius or Golf but I did own an '05 Jetta TDI. I loved driving it and it seemed to be high quality. We drove it twice from home (FL) to CA. Broke down both times. First time was close to home and we made it home in a black cloud of smoke. Stuck EGR. Took 4 days to get the part. Second time it broke down in rural AZ on I-10 on Saturday of a holiday weekend. Burst coolant connection. We spent 3 days in a motel waiting for the dealer to open and repair it. When we finally arrived home we traded it. Enough
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Interesting alternate viewpoint on the Motorweek / Car.com three day sojorun...

    "We found the Prius, in the end, offered a really top-notch interior, a peppy ride and great mileage," said Patrick Olsen, editor-in-chief of Cars.com. "There were several close competitors, but the Prius's new look and frugal ways won us over."

    The full report airs on MotorWeek episode 2902. Here are the results of the MotorWeek and Cars.com Power & Economy Drive by the numbers:

    Car Type .......................... Drive mpg .... EPA mpg
    --- ---- ....................................--------- -------
    1. 2010 Toyota Prius hybrid .......................... 49.2 ... 50.0
    2. 2010 Honda Insight hybrid........................ 40.5 ... 41.0
    3. 2010 Audi A3 TDI diesel............................38.2 ... 34.0
    4. 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI diesel............36.2 ... 34.0
    5. 2009 Smart ForTwo gasoline powered.....35.3 ... 36.0
    6. 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid hybrid ............. 32.9 ... 39.0


    Here's the link...MotorWeek TV and Cars.com Feature Fuel Economy Face-Off

    Same trip, same company, somewhat different perspective...
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    No it's just about statistics.. No valid conclusion can be drawn from self-submitted evaluations. Very little can be estimated by anything less than about 1100 entries. In statistics these 1000-1100 entries have to be chosen at random so as not to skew the results. Self-submitted results are immediately suspect.

    Then there's the small number of samples.

    My own way to use these reviews would be to throw out the top ten % and the bottom ten % then average the remaining 80%. Top 20% and Bottom 20%?
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 698
    ?!?

    However the revenue goes to the shareholders. That's as American as I need it to be.

    So, if I... an American... own VW stock, then VW is American? And if a Japanese citizen owns Ford stock, Ford is now Japanese?

    :confuse:
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 698
    Like I said before, the TDI sells in small numbers because Americans don't and will not buy diesels.

    Actually, it's because VW intentionally limits the number of TDI sales in the US as so to have enough to meet their European sales targets. Currently, their diesel engine factory does not have the capacity to meet all their projected sales.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    No, not at all. All large corporations like these, along with GM, Toyota, GE, IBM, MSFT, Intel, etc, etc, etc are all international companies. Their profits belong to the shareholders. No country owns these corporations. The shareholders own them.

    So yes if more Japanese citizens and banks and funds own MSFT stock than American citizens and banks and funds than MSFT is a 'Japanese-owned' company. That seems pretty obvious.
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