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Toyota Prius vs VW Golf TDI

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  • The problem with Mercedes and BMW is that their vehicles are expensive. If I were to spend some bucks on a diesel there is only one out there that really would be worthwhile. I can't see why the 335D Bimmer is not flying off the dealer lots. An extraordinary car and the performance is similar to that of a gasser. Only issue is the urea thing that would be a pain to maintain. As to quality, VW has a LONG way to go before they are anywhere near Lexus/Toyota standards. If you're referring to JD Power surveys, I don't really consider those reliable. I tend to focus on surveys that CR puts out.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Toyota average 1.01 problems per vehicle and VW 1.12 problems per vehicle in recent JD Power IQ results.

    .11 difference, big nothing!

    Consumer Reports surveys are not credible. CR only surveys it's subscribers. JD Powers data is based on a sampling group free from bias and larger sampling size than CR.

    There is no evidence of difficulty of use or of maintenance of a urea addition emissions system.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    Is that initial quality or over time?

    I've answered a lot of surveys on my cars over the years and seldom do I get a survey after I have 10,000 miles on my car. Initial quality is a lot easier to achieve than long term durability.

    My AudiTT didn't act up (electronics) until after 10K.

    My 350Z did start having problems at 3K but the idiots that owned them never told the truth in surveys. A lot of people had the same problem that I had and yet when I saw surveys it didn't seem like a big deal. The tire wear and noise was unbearable. The numerous visits to the dealer were unforgivable.

    My experience is people, especially on early surveys, are reporting on the car of their (current) dreams and really are not too critical. I guess they justify to themselves they made a good choice.

    Statistically you may show VW as a close second to Toyota, but in the real world no one believes it, including many VW owners.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    Just curious too, your id "moparbad" does that mean you think Mopar's are "bad" as in good? Or that they are bad as in junk?

    If you're a Mopar fan then I can see how you could easily be fooled into thinking VW makes a durable, reliable car.
  • HEHEEH I'd have to agree! Mopar almost lost it until Fiat came to the rescue. Based on what I've read on the boards I'd stay away from VW for a while. I'll stick with either Honda or Toyota for reliability.
  • petlpetl Posts: 610
    JD Power assesses vehicles in 4 categories.

    1) Performance and Design: Taken from the Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) study, this measure is based on owner satisfaction with vehicle Performance, Style, Features and Instrument Panel, and Comfort.

    2) Initial Quality: Taken from the Initial Quality Study (IQS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 90 days of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems that have caused a complete breakdown or malfunction, or where controls or features may work as designed, but are difficult to use or understand.

    3) Predicted Reliability: Derived from historical trending for a vehicle and/or manufacturer in our Initial Quality and Vehicle Dependability Studies, Predicted Reliability is a forecast of how reliable a newer vehicle might be over time.

    4) Overall Dependability: Taken from the Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 3 years of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems that have caused a complete breakdown or malfunction of any component, feature, or item (i.e., components that stop working or trim pieces that break or come loose).

    The most recent JD Power survey was Initial Quality which only looked at the first 90 days of ownership (not long term). There may be a big difference in customer satisfaction between the first 90 day IQ and the 3 year Overall Dependability surveys with a specific vehicle.
  • mike91326mike91326 SoCalPosts: 245
    Based on the last few JD Power's reports, I'd give Hyundai a good look. If they bring over the Elantra diesel next year it would be a good choice.
  • Thanks for that information. It means absolutely nothing because 90 days is really not enough time to gauge whether a vehicle will last over its life expectancy. Bottom line is that MOST cars today are very reliable. The TDI does not scare me, however I'd prefer the Bimmer 330D even though it is a lot more money. That car taken care of properly will outlive me! Heck my best friend's Mercedes Diesels are still going strong since 1981!!!!! Unfortunately the car manufacturers don't seem to be advertising that diesel is CLEAN these days. The TDI commercial is cute but it's not going to make it mainstream like the hybrids are now.
  • jejohns1jejohns1 Posts: 1
    Plus a diesel engine can run on 100% bio-diesel fuel, B100. If only the manufactures would warranty bio-fuel with their engines, currently they only warranty up to B5 (5% bio-diesel). Why is this important? The gasoline-electric hybrid still relies on fossil fuel petroleum, which we have to import (national security implications) and adds CO2 to the atmosphere. But a 100% bio-diesel can be grown domestically (making farmers happy), and would add no additional CO2 to the atmosphere because the plant used to make the bio-diesel absorbs CO2 while it grows and makes its plant oils, which are then made into bio-diesel which releases the same CO2 back into the atmosphere, in effect net zero CO2 (actually less because not all of the plant is used to make the bio-diesel). You can't get that with a gasoline-electric hybrid. Plus the toxic chemicals and metals used to make the battery are not very environmentally friendly. The bio-diesel on the other hand is non-toxic!
  • Since there isn't stringent regulation with respect to bio-diesel you're not going to see manufacturers embrace it in their new new car warranties. I have no doubt that diesel engines run fine on it, it's just that I would not want to chance using it and then have to make a warranty claim in the unlikely event of an engine problem. Car manufacturers are notorious for trying to find loopholes out of their obligations especially when the repair becomes expensive.
  • July 2009 sales are in:

    24,295 Toyota hybrids, up 19.3%
    VW all sales, 20,590, up 0.7%, and 6,320 diesels
    Ford sales are up 1.6%

    Prius is in the top 10 model sales for July. The free market whispered in July, "Prius," which thundered through the halls of VW. Even Ford got a taste thanks to their hybrids.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    30% of ALL of VW's sales are diesel for July.
    Are 30% of all of Toyota's sales hybrids?
  • bhill2bhill2 Posts: 1,330
    Since there isn't stringent regulation with respect to bio-diesel

    I think that you have the secret there. To be fair, I can't blame manufacturers for not wanting to warrant an engine that has been run on biodiesel of unknown quality. We have to set some standards for the actual content of the fuel (limitations on impurities, minimum cetane rating and so on), put a certification process in place, and then require manufacturers to honor warranties if the car is run on fuel from a certified source.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv, 2001 Jaguar XK cnv, 1985 MB 380SE (the best of the lot)

  • Prius vs. the world !!! - Cagematch Live on PPV Saturday night!!

    The first responder in this thread gave a very unbiased, excellent post on the positives of each choice. Extremely well spoken and helpful. Then Prius guy shows up with his brass knuckles on and nearly ruins the thread.

    Relax Prius guy, all diesel guy is trying to do is get an efficient car - just like you have. Support a guy trying to be environmentally friendly just like yourself instead of having the mindset of "Well if you don't own a Prius like I do, you are inferior and less intellegent". Wow this country would be awful boring with nothing but Prius's driving down the street. Bad thought there.

    If Prius guy makes it a point to knock diesel or electric guy, he is being detrimental to the overall cause of our country poluting less and become less reliant on foreign oil. Go ahead and rip Hummer H2 owner in flat terrain Miami getting 9mpg. But support a guy trying to buy a compact diesel that is good for the planet - just like your beloved hybrid.
  • VW sales are miniscule compared to Toyota's so it is not a good comparison. The Prius seems to be doing quite well. I'm so happy I can scream!!!!!!!!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,852
    How do you figure? VW sold 3.1 million vehicles first half. Toyota 3.5 million. VW sold over 50% diesel. What percentage of Toyota sales world wide are hybrids? The only reason VW does not have a large footprint in the US is very well placed lobby money by the other automakers, environmental groups and the oil companies that support those groups. Oil Companies do not want to sacrifice gas sales to diesel cars. Follow the money. The Prius is an ok choice, when you have no other high mileage choice. The Jetta Sportswagen TDI beats the Prius in all but two points of the dozen I can think of. As was pointed out, it would be nice if we could all appreciate the advantages offered by any vehicle that is environmentally friendly. The only thing the Golf TDI will give up to the Prius will be cargo space.

    Highway mileage cruising speed limit 70 MPH = VW TDI
    City mileage = Prius
    Cargo space = Sportswagen
    Acceleration = VW TDI
    cornering = VW TDI
    emissions = Prius?
    braking = VW TDI
    Comfort = VW TDI
    Ride = VW TDI
    Cabin Noise level = VW TDI
    Crosswind handling = VW TDI
    Interior quality = VW TDI
  • I am referring to VW sales in the US. Toyota demolishes them in this regard. As to reliability. VW reliability sucks but has been improving lately. As to mileage. well the Prius wins on all counts. Many independent tests have been conducted and where the Prius really shines is in city mileage as compared to the TDI. The way things seem to be headed it appears that electric cars or hybrids are where manufacturers seem to be investing their R & D. I just read about the Nissan Leaf that looks very promising!! Americans will not embrace diesels. There are a few die hards but their numbers are small. WItness the success of the Prius. Heck, they can't even keep up with the demand for the 2010. The TDI is an also ran. Sorry to burst your bubble.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,852
    Not sure how close you follow these trends. Toyota reliability started slipping in 2007 and VW keeps getting better. There are many aspects of a vehicle that are more important than reliability for me. Handling & braking being way out in front.

    They are not keeping up with the demand for the Jetta TDI which outsells the Prius world wide. The only reason the Prius is successful in the US and Japan is the limited choices. They cannot give a Prius away in the EU. Toyota builds diesels for all other countries except the USA. You like the Prius that is great. My experience is mostly negative with the 09 Prius I have ridden in.

    I am sure there will be a waiting list for the Golf TDI when it arrives next month. Problem is the US dollar being nearly worthless is not able to draw quality cars. So we get the dregs from Japan, Korea and Germany.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    As to reliability. VW reliability sucks but has been improving lately

    Does your statement have any meaning in terms of real world data? Quantify the difference in reliability between a VW TDI and a Toyota Prius.
  • There may be a waiting list but the limited quantities available will not be anything comparable to the highly successful Prius. It seems GM is trying to take some headlines now releasing information on their Volt's mileage claim of 230 MPG. Interesting how they claim it will cost 40 cents a day to charge. They base their claim on 5 cents per KW. Not sure when/where electric is that cheap. Typical GM showmanship. Getting back to Toyota. Their quality did slip but no where near the basement that VW is in with respect to their quality. Just do a search on VW reliability and you'll see what I mean.
This discussion has been closed.