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Toyota Prius vs VW Golf TDI



  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Gagrice talked about comparing prices of comparably-equipped vehicles, so I thought it was only fair to compare cars with the same utility (i.e. number of doors) and same kind of transmissions.

    I don't find it unfortunate that the Prius is not available as a 2-door hatchback. I find a 4-door hatch far more useful. Also, most car buyers in the US opt for automatic transmissions, so the lack of a stick shift isn't a factor for most buyers. I agree, cheaper is not necessarily better.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    So it appears there's quite a few of "stripped" Prius available in CA, at least in SoCal.
    The recall on the Prius and the no sell has created a glut. As I posted before it is a buyers market if you can stand the numb handling, uncomfortable seats and highway noise. You may get a buy of sorts. Don't expect the high resale of the past. Toyota has pretty much screwed that up.
  • The insurance companies will be OK with a weekend swap... just as long as the owner knows that all damage and liability remains with the insured OWNER/insurer of the vehicle. The primary hit comes on the primary insurance holder. The "borrower" insurance only comes into play if a verdict or liability exceeds that of the owner. Ditto if you let your best friend drive you home. If he smashes up the car, it's the owners insurance, not the insurance of the friend driving, that gets hit. And higher rates where applicable.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Amazing that "glut" happened in a matter of hours. ;)

    As long as someone doesn't buy a Prius and then try to sell it in an year or so, I don't think there will be any impact on resale value. The Prius is still the only mid-sized hatchback hybrid car and the only car capable of routinely averaging mid-50s mpg across a mix of driving conditions with typical driving techniques. It's not like it has a lot of competition in the resale market, which in case you haven't noticed is edging up in general of late.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    Yes they did. about 3 days ago Mossy Toyota had 13 Prius. Now they have 60 Prius. Selling just above invoice it looks. That is one of 11 Toyota dealers around me.

    Prius is still the only mid-sized hatchback hybrid car and the only car capable of routinely averaging mid-50s mpg

    There is the Insight that is not plagued with safety recalls. Looks like Honda did not pay off the EPA. Even though the owners are reporting higher mileage than Prius owners. The EPA has them rated 9 MPG lower. It pays to have connections in the Federal Government. 2010 Prius owners report 49.0 MPG. Insight owners report 49.5 MPG. Something fishy there. I knew the diesel ratings were screwed up by the EPA. First I have noticed a big discrepancy in a hybrid. You be the judge.
  • PMOPMO Posts: 278
    I Beg you this is funny, I being a GM guy will it ever stop! The thing runs to fast now it will not stop. The thing looks good in the drive way.Toyota should survive ,but will it's drivers?
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Also, most car buyers in the US opt for automatic transmissions, so the lack of a stick shift isn't a factor for most buyers.

    Most buyers opt for non-hybrid, non-diesel vehicles.

    Choice is good. 2 door, 4 door, hatchback, sedan, gasoline, diesel, hybrid, manual, automatic.....

    Would be wonderful if Toyota sold their diesels here. VW will offer hybrids soon.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Insight is not mid-sized as is the Prius, and is a much cruder car than the Prius--but also lower priced.

    Given the small sample size for the Insight (13), I don't think it's enough data to substantiate a plot by the Federal Government to prop up Toyota relative to other makes.
  • PMOPMO Posts: 278
    This was a common thing with GM in the 90's , JD Power received all the surveys from the buyers. GM purchased them from JD Power . The thing was of 250 only 20 might have been filled out by the buyer driver. This information was contaminated by the grandchildren and kids who filled them out. I did a canvas of 250 back then for rear door lock on Lumina. The information is flawed big time.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Autochannel 2010 Prius vs. 2010 Jetta TDI

    Test of the older platform MkV Jetta, not the newer Golf. Still, it is relevant to this topic.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    edited February 2010
    On the trip we refueled in Pennsylvania and were surprised that the old bugaboo of stinky hands after refueling has disappeared! It must be that stinky hands, stinky exhaust, and the smoke was caused by the aromatic sulfur in US fuels. Now that low-sulfur fuels are here, that nasty chemical aroma is just gone.

    This is something many of the diesel haters do not realize. I found it to be true with my 05 Passat TDI on the trip home from buying it in Oregon. I searched out the ARCO/BP stations that were the early adopters of ULSD, and never had smelly hands from fueling up. And my eyes did not burn from the fumes like they do with RUG.

    Every head to head match-up that I have read with real world cross country driving the diesel has won over the hybrid. So it depends on the need.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,796
    I have been driving clean diesel since 2005 and welcomed the change to ULSD in 2006. In the meantime, I never had any issue with smelly or smokey exhaust, never had any issue with finding diesel fuel or biodiesel blend, never had any issue with starting in cold weather.

    My Jeep Liberty CRD gets me 29 - 31 MPG on the road with a 2.8L four cylinder turbo diesel. The Liberty also has the aerodynamics of a cinder block. The closet hybrid is the Toyota Highlander which cannot match the open road FE of my Jeep.
  • watkinstwatkinst Posts: 122
    People a hybrid be it a Lexus - Focus or Prius is a really good car for when your stuck in stop and go traffic in a mild climate where airconditioning or heat isn't needed.

    This takes full advantage of the electric mode.

    When it comes to long distance trips which the US has lots of long distances hybrids are essentially in the same vehicle category as their closest gas counter part only they are hauling hybrid gear and weight around.

    The prius looks like it does because they are trying to eek out as much drag reduction as possible. The down side is the Prius has some pretty bad blind spots and looks like a wedge on wheels.

    When it comes to lots of stop and go traffic in locations with not so mild weather be it Arizona heat or Chicago cold diesel is king simply due to the low fuel consumption at idle. The hybrids need to run their gas engine to produce heat or cool air.

    Driving dynamics there isn't a single Toyota built hybrid or otherwise that can match a VW when it comes to the pure driving experience and it has nothing to do with German design. Has everything to do with Toyota building the most generic vehicles possible for the widest possible audience.

    As for hybrid tech - the crown jewel will be a fantastic Diesel paired to a hybrid system. Mercedes is probably going to be the first to the US with a car that sets the standard for hybrid driving performance and milege in the next few years. A much better technology pairing for the hybrid tech we currently know.

    Both are bandaid solutions for the end goal of reduced dino fuel consumption. Though if a major break through in bio fuel happens the diesel vehicles will be the first to reap the profits. Given diesel type fuel powers our country's economy and will be first to get any sort of bio fuel production.

    You know how your prius gets delivered to the dealer right? Shipped via diesel and bunker fueled ships - then shipped via train or truck running diesel. And when you fly to see grandma the jet is burning fuel which is nearly a fraternal twin to diesel.

    Last of all - gas engines produce max power at RPM's that people seldom ever reach in every day use- making the HP ratings loudly touted by all the marketing BS - just that complete BS.

    Yet every day drivers easily operate their diesel vehicle in a range that produces max power 1200-2000 rpm. Making them way more practical and efficient for daily use.
  • watkinstwatkinst Posts: 122
    As long as they actually provide a true advantage. Pairing a gas engine with a hybrid system is mainly all marketing BS and the cheapest route to say that you have such a product.

    Take the average CA Prius owner and disable the electric system and the milege difference they get will be a very small percentage between having hybrid tech in a slippery car and not having it in a slippery car.

    Bombing down highway 280 at 80mph is not leveraging the hybrid technology in the car its leveraging the lower drag shape of the prius.

    Sitting in 90 degree summer heat in stop and go traffic on a 6 lane highway in LA does not take advantage of the Prius hybrid tech. It takes advantage of the small gas engine having lower fuel consumption running the compressor than the 180hp honda civic in the next lane. :shades:
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    edited February 2010
    It's hard to know where to begin. That nonsense is so vague and so incorrect, it's like a buffet of greenwashing.

    First, the engine in Prius uses an Atkinson-Miller pumping cycle. So, all by itself it is more efficient than the standard Otto type.

    Second, the A/C in Prius is electric. That's more efficient that a traditional belt driven system. In fact, the water pump is a beltless electric too.

    Third, what "closest gas counter part" are you comparing to? The "essentially the same" comment about long distances trips just plain is not true. I see 45 to 50 on the highway. Low 50's on the good days during the summer.

    Fourth, If simply shaping a non-hybrid like Prius would achieve that, why in the world aren't automakers doing that? It would be a very easy way to achieve CAFE requirements.

    The average with my 2010 Prius so far (as of 15,355 miles) is 50.3 MPG.

    Where's the diesel hybrid VW keeps talking about... with at least a SULEV emission rating, of course.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,900
    edited February 2010
    The auto-rags report that within a year or two the will see some awesome hybrids from manufacturers who produce vehicles intended for drivers & driving rather than for parking & generating-electricity.

    Watkin State is my kind of state , wherever it might be :)

    ps - 45 tdi mpg on all my recent winter tanks! previous winters it dropped to 42. (i didn't put the bliizzaks on the car this winter - seems like that saved another 10% mpg. )
    pps - oh my goodness, a Prius can get 10% more mpg than a TDI! OH NOOO!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    Good to see you back on line. I was afraid you were a victim of the 2010 Prius brake failures. :shades:
    You like SULEV I'm happy with LEV. The new VW/Audi TDIs are cleaner than the Camry V6 it would be compared with for power and driveability. And lest we forget. The Audi A3 TDI is the GREEN CAR OF THE Year. Same drive train as the Golf TDI we are comparing to the Prius. Handling, comfort and safety are more important the MPG and emissions to me. Here is the testimony of an A3 TDI person that traded in a Prius.

    Traded in a 2008 Prius that had a lot of technology but no comfort. The A3 is amazing and so beyond all I could ask for. It is very upscale inside and out. The mpg is excellent and the torque is a thrill. The Ipod interface allows me to have a lot of CD's in an organized fashion, and the Bose sound is so clear and deep. The Navigation has real time traffic and a crisp and clear screen. I love the LED lights front and back. The car in Ibis white looks very European, especially with the black open sky roof. The transmission feels like a manual without all the work. Storage room is a little better than the Prius. I highly recommend the A3 TDI for MPG as well as practicality.

    So there is the testimony of the person that has owned both.
  • watkinstwatkinst Posts: 122
    The prius is nothing special - my 4dr hatch back back in 82 got 52mpg easy we had it for 12 years put 140,000 miles on it with very little issues.

    And yes that particular car was built like a tank with all the latest safety gear and was listed as the top safety pick over all the big American heavy detroit vehicles at the time.

    By the way the electric compressor and electric power steering idea is being used by other companies also. Yes you need the little gas engine running when your using all the juice up from the very small battery capacity the Prius has for the given application.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 700
    Where's the diesel hybrid VW keeps talking about... with at least a SULEV emission rating, of course.

    The same place Toyota keeps it's fun-to-drive, canyon-carving, razor-sharp handling Priuses.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    What was this 4-door hatchback? And what was the "latest safety gear" it had? Let me guess--seatbelts? How about ABS? EBD? EBA? Traction control? ESC? Airbags (even one, let alone seven)? Active head restraints? (Or any head restraints at all, in the rear?) Collapsible steering column? Extra steel beams in the doors?

    Also, what was the performance and comfort of this hatchback? Could it comfortably hold 4 large adults? What was its 0-60? Did it have a stick or automatic?

    BTW, there was no such thing as a "top safety pick" in 1982. That designation was not invented by the IIHS until many years later.
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