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Toyota Prius vs VW Golf TDI

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Comments

  • watkinstwatkinst Posts: 122
    Look it up
    VW Dasher diesel. Not fast - but built like a freaking tank all the latest safety gear at the time not only did it have seat belts but it had tensioner seat belts not the automatic goofy ones that motored up over your shoulders.

    We put 140K on that car everything from around town to long road trips through the Pacific NW doing back country backpacking from logging roads. It went places most SUV's never go.

    Even in todays crash standards it would fair pretty damn well.

    One thing for sure it wasn't the fold up toy the Honda CRX was.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,796
    edited February 2010
    Again we come down to an issue that seems to be ignored. Hybrids in their present state run on gasoline and/or E10. The issue is that gasoline is a one way fuel. The addition of ethanol (ETOH) reduces the energy content of gasoline, negatively impacting on fuel economy.

    A plug-in hybrid is a joke as one is shifting the carbon load to the electric companies and most electricity in this country is generated using either coal, oil or natural gas.

    Gasoline engines, no matter which cycle type they use, emit far more unburned hydrocarbon and carbon monoxide than an diesel ever will.

    As to the VW diesel hybrid, it is in testing and will be here sooner rather than later. The brakes will work on all surfaces and the system will not shutdown when trying to go up a slippery hill or driveway like some other hybrid we know.

    http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vehicleDetails.asp?id=19051

    http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vehicleDetails.asp?id=21205

    http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vehicleDetails.asp?id=23491

    Check out how clean VW has gotten their diesels.

    http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vehicleDetails.asp?id=24265

    This last entry is for the Jeep Cherokee (Liberty in the U.S.) Very clean emissions when compared to the Prius.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    edited February 2010
    And it looks like the VW gas/electric hybrid Jetta coupe could be here soon also...

    http://www.leftlanenews.com/volkswagen-jetta-coupe.html
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    edited February 2010
    >> The brakes will work on all surfaces and the system will not shutdown when trying to go up a slippery hill or driveway like some other hybrid we know.

    It's always interesting to see how long someone will milk outdated information.
    .
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    edited February 2010
    >> A plug-in hybrid is a joke as one is shifting the carbon load to the electric companies and most electricity in this country is generated using either coal, oil or natural gas.

    Both are more efficient though. So, it's still a reduction. Isn't that the point?
    .
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    edited February 2010
    >> The addition of ethanol (ETOH) reduces the energy content of gasoline, negatively impacting on fuel economy.

    Yet, using E10 in my Prius is still more efficient than a hybrid diesel.
    .
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    It's always interesting to see how long someone will milk outdated information.

    There are still 1000s of 2010 Prius owners running on the old defective brake system. Toyota is only updating those vehicles in cold climate areas. So what happens to the poor [non-permissible content removed] that decides to move from CA to MN and is clueless about the update? He could find out the hard way. It is just more of the inept handling of customers by a dysfunctional company, Toyota.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    edited February 2010
    >> Toyota is only updating those vehicles in cold climate areas.

    Rather than outdated, it's fictional.

    Where in the world did you hear that? For that matter, why would anyone think temperature was an influence?

    All will get the update. Few ever encountered potholes large enough to trigger the pause anyway.
    .
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    edited February 2010
    >> Gasoline engines, no matter which cycle type they use, emit far more unburned hydrocarbon and carbon monoxide than an diesel ever will.

    Hence the benefit of hybrid reduction of consumption.

    Let's not forget that biodiesel actually increases NOx emissions, which are worse than gasoline in the first place.
    .
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    Rather than outdated, it's fictional.
    Where in the world did you hear that?


    I cannot find the article that stated the Recall for 2010 Prius brakes was limited to the colder states. If I do I will post again. However it is not an outdated issue. As the recall has just started. With all the other vehicles in the Toyota bays it could take months to get your brake update.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    >> With all the other vehicles in the Toyota bays it could take months to get your brake update.

    That's also incorrect.

    Dealers have mechanics devoted to the hybrids. So, the workload for the traditional vehicles will not affect those bringing in their Prius.

    Mine was updated 2.5 weeks ago. It only took a few minutes.
    .
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Question for John- Have you kept a Prius past the 100,000 mile mark? Past the 200,000 mile mark?

    Very interested in your personal experience with Prius after the honeymoon is over and the miles accrue past 100,000.

    Diesel engines typically perform better at 100,000 miles than they did at 100 miles. Do hybrids increase their performance as they break in?
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,796
    It's always interesting to see how long someone will milk outdated information.

    The information may be a bit outdated, but it is part of a trend related to software issues in the Prius and other Toyota models.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,796
    More efficient? Not really. Plants that use fossil fuels to generate electricity are very inefficient.

    What about recharge times? At 110 volts, 12+ hours. At 220/240 volts maybe 4- 6 hours. How many people have out access to 220/240 volt outlets, even 110 volt outlets.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,796
    Did you look at the URL's in my posting? As to reduced consumption, I will agree to a point, but gasoline is and always will be a one way fuel. Remeber, your Prius is limited to E10. My and almost all diesels is not limited to using B5. I have used up to B40 without a hiccough. There diesel owners who are using B100 in newer diesels without an issue and no loss in FE.

    As to biodiesel and NOx, there are just as many studies that show it will increase NOx versus no change in NOx.

    With the introduction of exhaust treatment in Diesels, NOx is now a non-argument.
  • Our NHW11, 2003 Prius has 125,360 miles at the last fill-up, Feb. 9. It continues
    to deliver 51.9 MPG, lifetime average. It is my primary commuting car although
    I will use my wife's car on severe weather days.

    Our ZVW30, 2010 Prius has 9,105 mile at the last fill-up, Feb. 13 and
    delivers 51.2 MPG. We use it for out of town trips and errands.

    Sunday I'll visit a boy with 250,000 miles on his 2001 Prius. We'll be looking
    at some maintenance issues but otherwise, he's been one happy camper.
    The highest mileage USA Prius I know of had 350,000 miles before being
    lost in traffic accident. The owner bought another Prius.

    We hadn't even noticed the 2010 braking pause because it required
    rain-slick streets, a speed-bump or severe pothole, gentle braking and a
    speed under 20 mph. Break any of these pre-requisites and it doesn't
    happen. Measured with an accurate accelerometer, it was a 700-800
    milliseconds:
    image

    I got my brake update, A0B, February 13 in Decatur Alabama and since
    then I've not been able to replicate the brake pause. It is a simple software
    update to the skid control computer. So here is a pothole that could
    trigger the brake pause:
    image
    The deep part is 5-6 inches deep and about 7 feet long. They tend to
    show up in the winter when water freezes in street cracks.

    Before the software update:
    image
    You can see the weakened brake force.

    After the 30 minute, software update:
    image
    The brake pause is gone.

    Bob Wilson
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    If it was that simple to detect, why didn't Toyota catch it before putting a dangerous vehicle on the road. It should have been quite obvious with any slick road testing. The Toyota testing on all their vehicles leaves a LOT to be desired. From Prius brakes to UA on most of their vehicles and now screwed up steering on the newly designed Corolla. And you want people to think that somehow a Prius is in the same league as a VW.

    LMAO looking at those goofy charts. Too bad your test equipment cannot find Toyota's problems with UA acceleration. Another anomaly that has plagued the Prius since the 2004 model arrived. You could save Toyota a lot of embarrassment. Not to mention market share.
  • You posted:

    "The new VW/Audi TDIs are cleaner than the Camry V6"

    So I looked up the California Air Resources Board executive orders
    reporting emissions:

    A-007-0285 - "Volkswagen Jetta, Jetta Sportwagen, Golf, Audi A3"
    - 0.055 NMOG or NMHC STD [g/mi] @UL

    A-014-0651 - "Toyota Camry Hybrid"
    - 0.010 NMOG or NMHC STD [g/mi] @UL

    A-014-0649 - "Toyota Camry" 2.5L
    - 0.055 NMOG or NMHC STD [g/mi] @UL

    A-014-0652 - "Toyota Camry" 3.5L
    - 0.055 NMOG or NMHC STD [g/mi] @UL

    Bob Wilson
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    You forgot CO2 is a pollutant according to CA and the current regime in Washington. The V6 Camry puts out 1.8 more tons of CO2 per year than the Jetta TDI. Not to mention NO and HC. And all the nasty cancer causing fumes from Gas when it is pumped into the cars.
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