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Toyota Prius vs VW Golf TDI

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    I have sat in both and the Edmund's article is spot on. The VW seats are superior. I am hoping the 2010 Golf TDI has the same seats as the 2009 GTI. They are wonderful.
  • ctlctl Posts: 123
    It is true that Jetta and Golf have had a long history and loyal cult followers, mostly young folks. They are German (the magic word), solid, fun to drive. But they are also small, unreliable and relatively expensive to buy and keep, especially after the fun wear off. Knowing that, the majority of people under budgets now choose the japanese counter parts (civic/corolla...).

    What's putting them back to the main radar screen then? diesel, MPG, price for fuel. Would TDI be as sexy if it is only a more efficent gas engine that give you the same MPG?? diesel is nothing but a variety of gas.

    The small cult of followers now finally have something to brag about and cheer outloud about it. But does that make a difference? They are and will still only be a very small %, after the fun wear off...
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    I can tell you one thing the dealers in San Diego are thrilled with the response to the Jetta TDI sales. Half of the sedans and 80% of the Sportwagens sold are diesel. You could not be more wrong about regular unleaded and diesel as fuel. Diesel offers a lot more energy per gallon than RUG. And the crap gas we get in CA with ethanol kills the mileage on my 3 gas vehicles. I will never buy another gas engine unless they eliminate the ethanol.

    PS
    According to Edmund's inventory. There is not a Sportswagen TDI available in San Diego County.
  • I couldn't agree with you more. If all the VW crowd has to crow about are good seats then the laugh is sure on them. All I know is that the German cars in general have very firm seats. The litmus test for me is if my butt does not ache when I get out of the car, then the seat is fine. In the VW I had back pains and actually traded the car in and lost money due to the fact it was relatively new. (Volvo has the best seats, like living room furniture)

    VW, Audi has the best interiors in the business but on the opposite side of the spectrum has the worst electronic gremlins I've ever seen. What is the benefit of a nice interior if the car is in the shop half the time? LOL :confuse:

    I would imagine the TDI has special seats to absorb all the vibrations from the diesel engine. I still find it amazing how a diesel engine stays together with such high compression. Unfortunately way too much buzzy feelings transmit through the steering wheel and gear shifter making for a very uncomfortable city car. The Prius OTOH is smooth/silent as silk. Love it!!!
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Toyota has the best hybrids in the business but on the opposite side of the spectrum has the most boring cars I've ever driven. What is the benefit driving a hybrid "look at me, I'm green" boring appliance if it is in the garage half the time and you have to buy a Camaro to have and driving enjoyment? LOL.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Some people get a smile of enjoyment cruising along at 50 mpg. There are different ways to find enjoyment. Personally, I'm past the Camaro days. Driving a big barge like that isn't my idea of fun, even if it does have a big V8 in it. I find smaller, more nimble cars more fun. And easier on the pocketbook.
  • Toyota does make the best CARS in the business, however each vehicle serves its own purpose. I absolutely ADORE my Prius for the fuel economy, the gadgets, the proven reliability and its versatility. However, if I want to autocross, carve mountain roads I certainly won't do it in a Prius. That is not its function. I absolutely fell in love with the looks of the Camaro and based on early reviews I'm really looking forward to getting it. I opted for the six cylinder as that is enough power for me. I look forward to going out to the beach towns and exploring some unhidden treasures along the Hudson Valley. It's nice to be able to afford the best of both worlds. I'm sure those two will just get fine together in my garage. Gotta love it. LOL!!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    Better get em while they are still legal in the USA.

    Toyota Hybrids Blocked From U.S. Due to Patent Issues?

    Toyota faces patent infringement claims from a company called Paice LLC. Paice filed an official complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission on Thursday in Washington, D.C. The fling, not immediately available for public viewing, claims that Toyota has infringed upon several of the patents awarded to Paice in regards to drive trains for hybrid vehicles. Paice's filing seeks a complete ban on several Toyota models from out market including the Prius, Highlander Hybrid, Camry Hybrid, and several Lexus hybrid models.

    http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1034920_toyota-hybrids-blocked-from-u-s-due-- to-patent-issues

    The VW TDIs may soon pass Toyota hybrid sales. VW sold same percentage Jetta models as the Prius in the Cash 4 Clunkers program. We have to assume most were diesel as they have the best mileage advantage for trades with 18 MPG clunkers

    http://www.autoobserver.com/2009/09/new-math-cash-for-clunkers-numbers-dont-add-- up.html.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    That's an unlikely outcome. Hybrids mean too much to Toyota to have them blocked from the U.S. It's more likely Toyota would settle out of court with Paice if Toyota thinks there's a good chance Paice will prevail in the suit.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    I thought Toyota settled that long time ago. Seems like they are just trying to outlast them. Typical big corporate tactic. Hire more lawyers and hope the other guy runs out of money. Toyota is losing money right now from overbuilding in the US. How much will they spend to keep a marginal product on the market? I doubt they make as much on a Prius built in Japan as a Camry built here.
  • OMG... this news is older than Jesus. Do you actually think Toyota is going to lose a case like this. You have to be really naive to think that. LOL Toyota will just buy the company with their massive cash reserves. If I'm not mistaken the law firm representing the company is a real scheister firm. They sue anything and see what sticks. As far as TDI's outselling Prius. Not in your wildest dreams. Maybe in Germany, Not here in the good ol USA. Americans don't and will not buy diesels in any numbers significant. Guess thats why VW shelved their dumb commercial. It wasn't working LOL!!! :confuse:
  • NY has this new idling law that they enacted (other states must have something similar too). You can get a very steep fine if you idle more than 3 minutes time. Now as you all know, the Prius is silent at idle (engine is off) and if you happen to be waiting for someone curbside or on any public street for that matter, you will be ticketed if you idle more than three minutes. That means that I can remain cool in the summer and warm in the winter if I happen to waiting for passengers. If I had a TDI (or any normal gasser for that matter) I would be forced to shutdown. Even if the Prius battery runs low, the engine will kick on but for LESS than three minutes to recharge the battery a bit. Gotta love that technology!!! LOL :P
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    ...other states must have something similar too...

    I know my state doesn't. But somehow I'm not surprised NY does. :P
  • We're also the king of red light cameras and 10% ethanol gas, $11 bridge tolls. Okay, I'm getting sick. Only reason I've stayed is the MONEY.
  • Toyota builds some awesome diesel engines that are not imported inside US.This is a funny thread as toyota probabily sells 10,000 diesel in europe and asia for every pirus here.Cannot wait from them to be imported here.
  • Unfortunately they won't because market research shows that it would not sell here. I am kinda surprised that they wouldn't even take a chance, but I guess it would erode their hybrids sales if it was successful. I own an old Mercedes diesel (mid 80's) and a 2005 Prius. The Merc just won't die but I haven't the heart to retire it.
  • Prius= great city and hwy mileage, low poluter, "green" supporter, odd handling and looks, very reliable, expensive battery replacement cost and mostly unknown used car value after said battery dies

    Golf tdi = great hwy mileage and impressive torque, good city mpg, fun to drive on a daily basis, decent looking, not the best reliability track record, high resale value

    There is my on topic comparison. Merely my opinion. Sorry for offending prius owners earlier.
  • i'm with you thammer62 although the reliability should be much improved. we'll see. there were those issues with the false neutral ALTHOUGH it was a simple fix and they seemed to have resolved that for the '10 lineup.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Regarding expensive battery replacement costs:

    Vancouver has various taxi companies that used Priuses for the last 10 years and here's the shocker despite hundreds of thousands of miles of driving there has been no reported battery replacement. NONE! A larger number of Vancouver taxis are becoming Priuses because of this battery reliability.

    I drive a 83 MB300D. A while ago in Europe many MB diesels were like mine because of their low long term costs. The same applies to the Prius in Vancouver.

    Battery replacement costs is more of a worry than a fact since batteries in Priuses are hardly ever replaced unlike expensive V6 transmission on various Honda/Acura vehicles

    Unknown resale values if the battery dies? Indeed! But when does that happen? Sort of like saying unknown resale values for a Golf when the transmission dies (which ofcourse is not more frequent than other models)

    All future resale values are unknown. But based on past figures it's been over 10 years now and Prius resale values at least here in Canada are doing quite well. And if I am not mistaken USA has had the Prius for over 10 years and I am sure resale values are not unknown or are not atrocious when compared to other cars.

    So let me rephrase the comparison:

    Golf tdi = great hwy mileage and impressive torque, good city mpg, fun to drive on a daily basis, decent looking, terrible and almost consistently bad reliability ratings, high resale value > How long has VW been making cars? How long does it take this company to figure how to make reliable cars? To say that the new VWs are different in terms of reliability is like saying all politicans are different because they are far more honest now. VW has a multi-decade history of building sub-par cars. The fact that one or two VW models have a recently good reliability ratings means nothing until we find out their 3 to 5 years ratings.
    .

    Prius= great city and hwy mileage, low poluter,, odd handling and looks, very reliable, great technology in terms of its drivetrain, highly space efficient interior. No masochistic torture for a fifth rear seat passenger like what is experienced in a Golf/Jetta.

    Green supporter? I am not a green supporter at all and I dont mean to offend mother nature by saying so. Why am I driving a Prius? I love the technology that this car has. And what makes the Prius so attractive is its reliablity as a high technology car. Very few high tech cars are reliable especially among the German Marques. I love the engineering involved in terms of its focus on fuel efficiency. I love the fact that this car will consume less fuel from countries that are hostile to our democracies. . I love this car because no other car company can make a car like a Prius. NONE!

    Have you noticed all the press releases from every major car company in the world these past five years. How they are going to introduce Prius beaters ? Even VW these past many years expressed their desire to build hybrids. But why the great delay? Because every auto maker knows they cant make a Prius beater no matter how hard they try. That is a lesson that was learned by Honda with its Insight.
  • I give up, and I will just agree. The Prius is the greatest car ever. Moving on, I am.
  • no kidding, it's as if these toyota fanatics knit the prius in their womb. very attached to it we are, aren't we? i'm over it too. so much for a normal debate.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    A Toyota fanatic?

    Knit the Prius to my womb?

    Wow talk about a normal debate here.

    Apparently you are not even capable of raising one single factual point to debate with regards to my last post and I guess that is why you have to resort to such low-brow prissy respones.

    I was hoping someone here would find many flaws with my arguments so this debate can continue. But apparently that is not the case. Thanks for making it sooo easy. :P

    HINT: there is a flaw in my statement below:

    I drive a 83 MB300D. A while ago in Europe many MB diesels were like mine because of their low long term costs. The same applies to the Prius in Vancouver.

    What I really meant was that many European taxis were like my MB300D just like many Vanouver taxis are like my Prius. Both cars share one thing in common: Low long term maintenace costs.
  • looks like you are debating yourself here because i think the prius is the most fantastic car on the planet and there is no other like it. it goes 0-60 in 2 seconds and is exceptionally comfortable. it performs amazingly in the slolem test, too! unparalleled handling! oh and the battery will never cease, forgot to mention that attribute. all hail the PRIUS!
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Prius is a worthy contender for folks seeking to maximize fuel mileage. It's just not for me. Responsive handling, great ergonomics and interior quality, good reliability and excellent mileage are all provided by VW TDI. Fun to drive with great mileage and value.

    Automotive enthusiasts seem to feel the same way about Prius that I do, it is technologically interesting, however, a TDI is the one they prefer to drive.

    Hybrids, Diesels and a Smart

    First place TDI

    Fourth place Prius


    I'm no Toyota hater nor am I a VW fanatic.
    HiLux diesel is a vehicle that is #1 in it's class IMHO.
    HiLux D4D is rated at 28 mpg. If only Toyota would offer it's wonderful D4D engines in Tacoma and in other Toyota vehicles.
  • yep, the demand is really high for the golf. i doubt they'll be able to keep any in the lots. all the critics are in agreement too and would take the golf over the prius any day. i'm a HUGE fan of the esp on veedubs and they have exceptional handling. i don't want to be sliding all over icy roads come winter.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Wow I didn't know that the Prius was such a muscle car.
    That's a real good thing to know since I traded in my 07 BMW 335i for a Prius.

    A VW TDI sounds very impressive. Wear your helmet if you drive one. :P
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    Debating the merits of Prius and Golf TDI can be enjoyable. However their are diesel haters that lurk on this site. They attack posters off site that they do not agree with. Probably teenagers that somehow sneak past the folks here at Edmund's.

    Just to clarify a couple things. The 2nd generation Prius that included MY 2004 to 2009 did not arrive here till October 2003. So those models have been here less than 6 years. The first model Prius sold here was 2001-2003. Very few of those were sold. They did have battery issues. None of the 2nd generation have reached their 10 year battery warranty, mandated by CARB rules. So we do not know how they will do over the long haul. If they are still going after 15 years with no big expenses I would agree on their longevity.

    That said, the real beauty of the VW TDI is longevity. With many owners keeping their diesels 10-20 even 30 or more years. I see diesel Rabbits and Dashers on Craigslist on a regular basis.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Prius=
    great city and hwy mileage, ...TRUE
    low poluter, ...TRUE
    "green" supporter, ...TRUE
    odd handling and looks, ...TRUE
    very reliable, ...TRUE
    expensive battery replacement cost ...unequivically FALSE. The batteries never need to be replaced. For hundreds of thousands of NA drivers the cost is $0 in nearly every case...however in isolated cases the cost may range from $200 to $2599 which is hardly 'expensive'.
    and mostly unknown used car value after said battery dies. again unequivically FALSE. Since the batteries appear to be living as long as the engine and body with noone actually knowing how far above 250,000 miles the batteries will go, they essentially will last the life of the vehicle with no replacement. Thus this is a moot point.

    What is absolutely certain now after 8 years here is that the Prius holds its value far better than any other ICE-only vehicle mass-marketed in similar volumes, gasoline or diesel.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Edmunds put this thread in the forums to bring out TDI advocates and Prius advocates and throw them into the same room together to generate visits, comments, discussion and hits on their website.

    This isn't a diesel-only thread nor a hybrid-only thread. It's put out there by Edmunds to create confrontations between two strongly-held viewpoints.

    All that can be said is...'to each their own, both positions are right'....just keep it factual.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,158
    If a Prius still brings $3500 to $5500 when it is 26 years old I will be a believer. These are common in my area. They usually sell fast. Especially the PU Rabbit diesels. The only PU ever sold that gets an honest 50 MPG.

    http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/cto/1362482016.html

    http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/cto/1358339500.html

    http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/cto/1358248000.html
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