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Toyota Prius vs VW Golf TDI

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Comments

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,748
    How about a 25-year-old Corolla for $5000? Given how much more a 2010 Prius costs compared to a new 1985 Corolla, a 26-year-old Prius should easily fetch over $5000.

    http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/cto/1358524627.html

    Or even better, how about a 1976 Corolla for $3650? That is about what I paid for a '76 Corolla new--talk about holding value!

    http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/cto/1354937022.html
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    It is absolutely certain that your statement is incorrect.

    What is absolutely certain now after 8 years here is that the Prius holds its value far better than any other ICE-only vehicle mass-marketed in similar volumes, gasoline or diesel.

    KBB private party value is higher for 2001 VW Golf TDI $5965 than for 2001 Toyota Prius $5335 with mileage of 150,000 used for both computations.

    MSRP when new

    Prius $22000

    VW Golf GLS TDI $17400

    Golf TDI has superior retained value and lower initial cost.

    It is absolutely certain that your statement is incorrect.

    Diesel wins the retained value.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,052
    What the older Corolla has in common with the older VWs is simplicity. The overly complex Prius will have long since gone to the crusher. New Vehicles do go lots of miles before they are worn out. They are designed for obsolescence before they reach a ripe old age. I would seriously doubt we will see many 2010 Golfs still running around in 2030. Too much crap to go bad and cost more to fix than is practical.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,748
    I would seriously doubt we will see many 2010 Golfs still running around in 2030.

    So pretty much a non-differentiator then, eh?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    As I had previously pointed out battery issues with a Prius are non-issues. If they are an issue beyond rare instances then please let me know the facts because I would be glad to hear them.

    And what is the replacement cost of these batteries.? Minimal especially when compared to the cost of replacing my 1999 BMW's 323i's Air Bag ICU.

    This whole battery issue is an irrelevant bogey man issue dreamt up here in this forum

    Oh and by the way do you know how the future generation of diesels will do? These low emission diesels do involve far more complex electronics than my 83 MB 300D or that Diesel VW Dasher you found on Craiglist. Believe me longetivity of 30 years with these new generation diesels are likely to be far more different than those grandfather diesels we see on the roads today. What do you think VW repair costs will be like if those electronics related to low emission begin to malfunction? Nope not a pretty thought indeed.

    In fact owning a Prius long term provides more piece of mind than any modern VW diesel today.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    So let me get this straight here.

    We got a group of auto enthusiast testers testing a car for its driving dynamics and performance and they dont like the Prius too much.

    Aint that a shocker.

    If I ever buy a performance car it will have no fuel efficiency pretensions just like my fuel miser Prius has no performance car pretensions.

    I want either fuel efficiency or performance. But not both. Why compromise? Owning a top notch performance car and a fuel miser is not a contradiction since both cars offer the best of both worlds. A TDI in itself is neither a top notch performance car or a fuel miser. It's just a compromise. A Prius is the "Real McCoy" in terms of fuel misers.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,052
    This whole battery issue is an irrelevant bogey man issue dreamt up here in this forum

    Hardly. Every magazine article about the hybrids and especially the Prius questioned the longevity of the traction battery. The price from Toyota has come down over the last 5 years from over $5000 to somewhere between $2000 and $3000. Until we see them last 10 years without replacement the question still looms. That is over 4 years from now. And just for your information on my trip to Victoria BC a couple years ago I talked to a Prius Taxi driver. He told me there had been batteries replaced by Toyota. We don't know as they don't tell.

    In fact owning a Prius long term provides more piece of mind than any modern VW diesel today.

    Your piece of mind, not mine. I drive some roads that have high winds with people in Prius inching along to keep from being blown off the road. The Prius is a fine car for a flatlander in an urban setting. If given a Prius I would trade it while it has good resale value. They are noisy little rough riding cars that don't handle worth a hoot.

    Performance and handling are subject to where you plan to drive. If you want super performance and handling I think the 335D would satisfy all but the Porsche crowd. If you just like tooling around in mountain winding roads as I do the Golf TDI should be a dandy option.

    You can also have ultimate utility, excellent handling and performance in a BMW X5 diesel. And get better mileage on the road than most CamCords. There are options to cover a lot more of the consumers needs than are offered for sale in the USA.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    quote -Best-in-class gas mileage helped, but our goal was to find the car that best suited everyday driving, and Prius never made any of us want to go for a spin.-end

    Best suited to everyday driving is not testing for top notch performance.

    The shocker is that you interpret a test of high mileage vehicles as a measure of performance. I agree that driving dynamics are important and unlike Prius drivers I refuse to dismiss driving dynamics.
    TDI #1, TDI #2, Fusion Hybrid #3 is not a shocker either. The only area that Prius is a winner is in overall mileage. Prius is a compromise in every other area and is not a winner for everyday driving.

    dewey So let me get this straight here.

    We got a group of auto enthusiast testers testing a car for its driving dynamics and performance and they dont like the Prius too much.

    Aint that a shocker.

    If I ever buy a performance car it will have no fuel efficiency pretensions just like my fuel miser Prius has no performance car pretensions.


    quotePrius never made any of us want to go for a spin.-end
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,052
    Prius never made any of us want to go for a spin.

    That is the absolute gospel. I have gone several times to lunch with a friend that has a 2009 Prius. He loves it. Then his other vehicle is a Toyota Tacoma. So he had no real reference of what rides and drives nicely. It was always a pleasure to get out of that car and back into my Lexus or Sequoia. Neither of which I would consider great vehicles. Finding a compromise between great mileage and fun driving will always end up with a German vehicle. I have high hopes for the 2010 Golf. Sadly we may not get the Golf GTD with the high performance 2.0L Diesel engine. America land of the clunkers.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    09-09-09 IS MY 9-YEAR PRIUS ANNIVERSARY

    Here's my real-world data for those 3 generations I owned during that time, combined:

    184,852 MILES total

    3,924.4 GALLONS total

    47.1 MPG overall

    Let's see an automatic non-hybrid diesel do that.

    SHOW ME THE DATA.
    .
  • I think the verdict on this generation of diesel's reliability has to be reserved for the future. There is US only technology that is being deployed by traditionally overcomplicated European manufacturers- There are many potential problem areas that older diesels simply don't have.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    3 Prius in 9 years. Wow, they don't last long do they.
    If would have driven a diesel TDI it would have delivered 40 mpg plus and at only 185,000 miles it would still have years of life left.
  • john1701a,

    184,852 miles of some really boring driving. What good is 47 mpg if you can't have some fun driving?

    Say it with me Prius guy:
    The Golf TDI is fun to drive (or at least more fun to drive than Prius).
    The Golf TDI is fuel efficient (just not as fuel efficient as a Prius).
    The Golf TDI has character (just like the Prius has character - just diff styles).
    The Golf TDI is good for the environment (much more so than a gasser).

    And I, diesel guy, admit the following with ease:
    The Prius is very fuel efficient (the most fuel efficient car in this segment).
    The Prius has a great reliability record (impressive tech that lasts, well done 'Yota).
    The Prius is very good for the environment (plus, green = good community points).
    The Prius does not handle very well, nor is it really designed to handle well.

    Can everyone agree these above items are true? I know why each side hates the other but lets agree on these. This is my last ditch effort at reasoning with Prius guy. Make me proud Prius guy.
  • i'm with you, thammer. on toyota's payroll for sure. behaving as if there is no viable option other than the prius.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > they don't last long do they.

    Do you honestly anyone is actually going to believe that?

    The dealer paid decent $$$ for the trade-in.

    They were my contribution to the used market. So, someone who wasn't looking for a new model had something available to buy.
    .
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > The Golf TDI is...

    Notice how each claim is vague.

    Not quantifying is a common greenwashing technique.

    Let's see actual numbers.

    Again, SHOW ME THE DATA.
    .
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,052
    Some Prius owners are convinced it is the only option worth using. I can beat John's lifetime mileage by at least double by riding the bus and trolley system in San Diego. I have a man that catches the trolley at the border in the wee hours of the morning. Rides to the last stop about 45 miles from the start. Gets on a bus for the last 16 miles. Works all day for me and repeats going back to his home in Tijuana. All for only $5 per day. Or as little as $18 per month unlimited usage for those over 60 or disabled. No way you can drive a Prius or any other car for $5 per day, all day. At $3 per gallon average John spends about $1300 per year just on gas. I can ride the bus and trolley a million miles per year for $216. The point being a cheap ride is not the end all. Until someone offers me a vehicle with the utility, comfort and room of my Sequoia using half as much fuel on the highway I will just keep paying for gas getting 15 MPG. I could cut most of those miles in a year with a car like the Golf TDI. It would not really save any money. Just like buying 3 new Prius over a 9 year period is not economical. I can show that I have not wasted as much fuel over the last nine years as John with vehicles all getting less than 25 MPG. For the money spent on 3 Prii John could have owned a very nice luxury car getting 30 MPG and had plenty left over to pay for the gas. Nothing economical about owning a Prius. Get a Fit or Yaris if you really think saving is the end all.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    That sure is off-topic. In fact, it's a rather desperate attempt to avoid the discussion.

    54.1 MPG is the average in my 2010 as of 6,840 summer miles.

    What's yours?
    .
  • can i ask why the prius fans can't enjoy their prius and the vw fans be free to enjoy the golf? they are very unique and separate cars with different attributes. i'm not sure why some prius folks must discount the many positive attributes of the golf??? live and let live.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,052
    I already told you the Sequoia gets 15 MPG on this CA crap ethanol gas. !7 MPG on decent Regular unleaded. How well does your Prius pull a 7000 lb trailer? Or how comfortable is it for 7 people on a long road trip? If owning a car was only about mileage the Prius would be ok. It is not near the top of my wants and desires in a vehicle. Ever run down a sandy wash in your Prius? And it sure is not as much fun to drive as a Golf TDI once you get out of the stinking cities. Which I try to avoid. Sometimes going an extra 100 miles or more out of my way. You like your Prii and that is good. It would not convince me if it got 100 MPG going 90 MPH all day long. I have driven and ridden in them enough to know they are not for me. Aside from the fact they are downright ugly and have horrendous blind spots.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    So this is the conclusion so far:

    Moparbad uses a not so well known publication in order to prove that a group of not so well known auto reviewers dont like taking a spin on a Prius

    Reality: The Prius has the highest ownership satisfaction rate among all autos (Consumers Report). If you want to find out how satisfying a Prius is why not ask the owners instead?

    Gagrice likes his Sequoia and old Lexus and strongly urges all Prius owners to buy a Yaris instead.

    Reality: What the hell has this got to do with this discussion.

    Marlyece thinks that all members should be left alone to enjoy the Golf.

    Reality: Before you issue a restraining order did you ever bother looking at the title of this forum?

    Thammer62 presents to everyone the positives and negatives about both VW TDI and the Prius

    Reality: How on earth are we suppose to have a debate when you are so agreeable? ;)

    Bottom line: THe VW TDI does not even come close to being as fuel efficient as a Prius. The VW TDI is highly uncomfortable for a fifth rear passenger when compared to a Prius. It lacks the great technology that a Prius has. It's not much better than the prior generation VW TDI. It's a complex new diesel and with VW's track record in terms of reliabilty that can be very bad news. The VW TDI is pathetic in terms of fuel mileage in slow city traffic. The Prius is a great fuel miser on both the highway and slow city traffic. The Golf has a long history of reliability issues. The VW TDI uses diesel which can fluctuate far more than gasoline and as a result a higher degree of unpredicable fuel costs. It's harder to find diesel than gasoline which can be a big inconvenience.

    Oh yes and did I forget to mention that the Prius has the highest ownership satisfaction among all cars. I thought I did. :blush: I

    OK now I can leave all you VW Golf fans alone.

    No need for that restraining order.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,052
    Oh yes and did I forget to mention that the Prius has the highest ownership satisfaction among all cars.

    If you look to your right you will see the 2010 Prius and the current customer rating. It has gone down. Prius topped out in customer satisfaction with the 2006 MY. While the only current VW in the same class the Jetta TDI has gone above the Prius in customer satisfaction. I would imagine the same will hold true for the Golf TDI when it arrives. So far this is a debate about a vehicle very few have gotten to drive. It will be good when we have input from actual drivers like ourselves. Will the fleet average MPG be as high with the Golf TDI as the Prius. I doubt it. Most people buying the Golf actually like to drive. They enjoy the torque and pull the diesel offers on mountain roads. Something a Prius driver will never experience. I would say that makes ignorance bliss. They can enjoy their spreadsheets showing 54.1 MPG.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Nothing to argue about in your post IMO. The Gen 3 Prius may address the handling issue but that's still to be determined.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,748
    Bear in mind many drivers in the U.S. have no mountain roads to drive on, just a lot of flat prairie and cityscapes. So even though these drivers may "like to drive", the terrain they drive on doesn't offer much challenge that the Prius can't handle.

    Re torque, don't forget that the combined torque of the Prius' powertrain is pretty hefty--258 lb-ft. The Golf TDI may have more usable torque in the mountain passes, but if you don't have mountain passes, it's not a big advantage.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I can't believe that you'd actually use the satisfaction ratings here on Edmunds as proof of anything.

    Do you want to see how I can give the VW Golf an overall rating of 9.8 out of 10 based on 1,000 reviews instead of 8.7 o/o 10 based on 16 reviews?? Give me a couple of days and the VW will have 984 more reviews....all 10's.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Sounds very dubious to me. The Prius has been consistently number one for 5 years in a row.

    How about some facts like the one based on 425,000 responses from the world's biggest automotive survey :

    Consumers Report 2009 Survey
    For the fifth year in a row, the gas/electric Toyota Prius hybrid is the top car for owner satisfaction. That's the news from our latest Annual Car Owner Satisfaction Survey, conducted by the Consumer Reports National Research Center. Ninety-three percent of Prius owners who responded said they would definitely buy or lease one again. The Prius was closely followed by the Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (92 percent) and the new Mini Cooper Clubman (91 percent).

    A 54.1 MPG on a spreadsheet and an overwhelming love for the Prius as expressed consistently for 5 years in the world's biggest auto survey may not amount to much for you. But then again I wont confuse you with facts.

    link title.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,052
    Hopefully the software will not allow that to happen. However I think it is better than the crap we get from a select few zealots that subscribe to CR. So are you saying the supposed Prius owners lied back in 2005 when the rating was at 9.4? I think these two posts say it best about the 2010 Prius.

    Well what can you say. The seats are not comfortable, the ride is numb and disconnected from the road, wind/road noise is at a premium, very jittery over any type of non-smooth pavement. However, going green is the way to go. We need more of these types of cars only with better execution...

    I've owned this 2010 Prius IV for 1500 miles. I've been getting 55-60mpg mixed city and highway. That's about the nicest thing you can say about this car. For the $29k I paid, I expected a LOT more. A mazda3 or a civic and a big gas bill would have been a much better value. The brakes are ridiculous. If you go over a pothole, you're going to lose all braking power for about 3 seconds. For a car with traction control and electronic brake distribution this is simply unacceptable. In power mode the car drives well and has some spunk. Normal and Eco modes are just nanny modes that deaden the accelerator. Thanks, but I know how to drive and like to accelerate without having to floor it.


    Both gave the Prius high marks for Mileage. With the lowest marks for fun to drive. That is the difference between the two cars being debated. Prius has lots of gizmos for the geek with great mileage. The Golf TDI has driver comfort, performance, mileage and handling for the person that really enjoys driving. Should make the choice easy if people really know what they like.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Oh c'mon you cant be serious :confuse:

    Opinions of two people conveys the truth about a Prius.

    Kydsyder, John and myself as a population alone outweighs the opinion of these two disgruntled people.

    There are hundreds of thousands of Prius owners and yes oh yes you will be able to find a few disgruntled owners among them if you search hard enough. Unfortunately the majority of them are the most satisfied auto owners for the last five years. PERIOD!!!

    Golf comfort? Not on the rear seat. Unless you ofcourse you find subcompact comfortable.
    Golf TDI perormance and handling? Oh Puhleeeze. This econobox is a far cry from any performance vehicle.
    Golf Mileage? Subpar when compared to the Prius

    The one advantage about the Golf is that any celebrity would be embarassed to be seen in one. I find the celebrity cachet of the Prius as somewhat annoying since I am a low profile person myself.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,052
    So you are telling me when you get a survey from less than on tenth of one percent of car owners in the USA it is somehow valid? And when you add the fact that people that read that rag are biased with preconceived notions about what is good and what is not good. I subscribed and got screwed following their advice in the 1960s. I won't allow them to sway me ever again. You will never convince me that the big DONATIONS from companies like Toyota do not play into their advice.

    So just how many Prius owners responded. And how many unhappy Prius owners canceled their subscription to CR for being led astray?

    Let's look at the CR report from a scientific angle. For the sake of argument let's say you have 10,000 Camry owners and only 89% would buy another Camry. You have 500 Prius owners with 93% saying they would buy again. Does that make the Prius more popular by some stretch of the imagination? I like my Sequoia in some ways. I would not buy another one because of the PP service from the dealer. Just too many variables to give that 93% any kind of credibility.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Apparently the only thing that will convince you is a car that does not use California gasoline and has tons and tons of ooomph to climb moutains.

    Two highly irrelevant issues here in flat Ontario Canada but highly releveant in the spot where Priuses tend to be most popular: Califronia :P

    Go figure?
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