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Toyota Prius vs VW Golf TDI

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,890
    I would guess most CA Prius rarely leave the level cities in the Los Angeles basin and the Bay area. They do fine on smooth freeways in stop and go driving. You hit the nail on the head. I will not buy another gas powered car. Maybe electric if we get a break on our high priced electricity or put in Solar. More than likely just keep what I got and grumble about the crappy gas. In reality CA has neutered the diesels to try and keep them out. They were successful keeping the Honda diesel out of the market here. Now Honda has nothing to compete with Toyota and Ford. The Honda hybrids are not that great and trouble prone. With only a handful of us diehards that like VW diesels it could be we are headed into the dark ages. Maybe every Prius will come with a robot to drive people around. They would look natural in a Prius.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Well anyways Gagrice I myself may end up buying a VW Golf TDI in the future. I own a 83 MB300D and I lived with diesels for almost three decades. But I also love my Prius and I dont think that is a contradiction.

    I just like playing Devil's Advocate and I hope I wasn't too snarky with my last posts. The VW Golf just won the World Car of the Year Award and that in itself says a lot.

    The robot driving the Prius almost exists today with self-park, lane change warning system and those sensors/radar to prevent accidents. Soon there will be no need for a robot.
  • garv214garv214 Posts: 162
    Hmmm...I didn't realize that SF was so flat LOL. For what it is worth, my twin brother loves the Prius (doesn't own one, but will some day) because of its great gas mileage and room for adults in the rear seat. I, on the other hand, would likely favor the Golf diesel (test drove a BMW 335d) because of the combination of fuel economy, torque, and that diesels are offered in some cars that are entertaining to drive. Neither of us is "wrong" our choices are driven (pardon the pun) by what we expect/value in our car and the driving experience. :D
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,890
    Dewey I would not see a contradiction if you owned a Prius and a Hummer. Each has its own strong values. If there are two drivers in a family that both put on a lot of miles why not have a Prius and a Golf TDI. One of my best friends just moved to Maui and took his 2009 Prius with him. It is a great car for that Island. 55 MPH strongly enforced and mostly level driving. Add to that the high price of gas and the Prius is a winner. The Golf TDI would also be wonderful on Maui as they have a great supply of B100 biodiesel. There is a group of celebs that drive diesel cars and PU trucks on the best alternative fuel available.

    Hmmm...I didn't realize that SF was so flat LOL

    OK, I forgot about downtown SF. I wonder if a Prius would be able to make it up some of those very steep streets when it rains. I know many have complained about the traction control leaving them stuck in snow and slick surfaces. The VW Passat TDI that I owned had a switch to give full driving control to the driver. A Big Plus.
  • I'll just give my two cents worth. Never owned a Prius or Golf but I did own an '05 Jetta TDI. I loved driving it and it seemed to be high quality. We drove it twice from home (FL) to CA. Broke down both times. First time was close to home and we made it home in a black cloud of smoke. Stuck EGR. Took 4 days to get the part. Second time it broke down in rural AZ on I-10 on Saturday of a holiday weekend. Burst coolant connection. We spent 3 days in a motel waiting for the dealer to open and repair it. When we finally arrived home we traded it. Enough
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Interesting alternate viewpoint on the Motorweek / Car.com three day sojorun...

    "We found the Prius, in the end, offered a really top-notch interior, a peppy ride and great mileage," said Patrick Olsen, editor-in-chief of Cars.com. "There were several close competitors, but the Prius's new look and frugal ways won us over."

    The full report airs on MotorWeek episode 2902. Here are the results of the MotorWeek and Cars.com Power & Economy Drive by the numbers:

    Car Type .......................... Drive mpg .... EPA mpg
    --- ---- ....................................--------- -------
    1. 2010 Toyota Prius hybrid .......................... 49.2 ... 50.0
    2. 2010 Honda Insight hybrid........................ 40.5 ... 41.0
    3. 2010 Audi A3 TDI diesel............................38.2 ... 34.0
    4. 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI diesel............36.2 ... 34.0
    5. 2009 Smart ForTwo gasoline powered.....35.3 ... 36.0
    6. 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid hybrid ............. 32.9 ... 39.0


    Here's the link...MotorWeek TV and Cars.com Feature Fuel Economy Face-Off

    Same trip, same company, somewhat different perspective...
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    No it's just about statistics.. No valid conclusion can be drawn from self-submitted evaluations. Very little can be estimated by anything less than about 1100 entries. In statistics these 1000-1100 entries have to be chosen at random so as not to skew the results. Self-submitted results are immediately suspect.

    Then there's the small number of samples.

    My own way to use these reviews would be to throw out the top ten % and the bottom ten % then average the remaining 80%. Top 20% and Bottom 20%?
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 700
    ?!?

    However the revenue goes to the shareholders. That's as American as I need it to be.

    So, if I... an American... own VW stock, then VW is American? And if a Japanese citizen owns Ford stock, Ford is now Japanese?

    :confuse:
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 700
    Like I said before, the TDI sells in small numbers because Americans don't and will not buy diesels.

    Actually, it's because VW intentionally limits the number of TDI sales in the US as so to have enough to meet their European sales targets. Currently, their diesel engine factory does not have the capacity to meet all their projected sales.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    No, not at all. All large corporations like these, along with GM, Toyota, GE, IBM, MSFT, Intel, etc, etc, etc are all international companies. Their profits belong to the shareholders. No country owns these corporations. The shareholders own them.

    So yes if more Japanese citizens and banks and funds own MSFT stock than American citizens and banks and funds than MSFT is a 'Japanese-owned' company. That seems pretty obvious.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 700
    Camry vs Accord?!?

    What's the difference? A Camcord is a Camcord is a Camcord.

    Now compare a Passat vs Mazda6 vs Camcord... that'd be interesting.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    I know where VW could pick up some extra factory capacity for diesel engines, right here in the U.S., and real cheap! ;)

    If there were enough demand here, VW would add the capacity for it. Maybe they could build Golf TDIs (using that new U.S. diesel factory) alongside the new mid-sized sedan being built in the States.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 700
    I couldn't agree with you more. If all the VW crowd has to crow about are good seats then the laugh is sure on them.

    Actually, they were just replying to your original assertation that VW seats were cr@p in the '90s.

    BTW: Have you considered the amount of smug your emitting into the atmosphere from your Pious?

    :P
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 700
    NY has this new idling law that they enacted (other states must have something similar too). You can get a very steep fine if you idle more than 3 minutes time.

    Sweet! I can't wait to see all the lawsuits that will be filed against the state of NY for setting red light times above the 3 minute mark - mandating it's citizenry to violate the state's own laws.

    :P
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 700
    I heard that the Toyonda Pious can fly faster than light and travel in space! It also has 'ray-guns' to shoot all the evil zombie squirrels that are brainwashing people into drinking the diesel-ade.

    That, and it comes with a little robot R2 unit as a rechargeable dog-bot.

    :P
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 700
    Think of all the pollution that was emitted into our environment to make your THREE cars!

    Imagine how much cooler the planet would be if you had just kept your 1st generation Prius!

    Think of the *CHILDREN*!!! (and the clams, too!)

    :surprise:
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 700
    Actually, VW is building an auto plant in the states (I think it'll be in Tennessee).

    But it's not going to be building diesel engines, though.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    You are so out of date! It was ray guns on Gen 1, phasers (dual settings, kill for diesels, stun for everyone else) for Gen 2, and quantum torpedoes (will take out an entire VW factory) on the 2010.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    Yes, I mentioned that factory in my post. Guess how many closed automotive factories are out there, available for a song, for more VW diesel engines? Lots.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,890
    Sadly most of the empty plants are in UAW territory. You know the workers that bankrupted the Auto Industry in America? Any plant in a town controlled by the UAW will be considered a toxic asset. GM and C will have a hard time unloading them. It would probably cost more to rebuild into a state of the art factory than finding bare land and starting from the beginning. I think Mexico will get the diesel expansion not the USA. They are also big buyers of VW vehicles.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Both TDI exceeded EPA mpg, while all the hybrids in the test delivered less than EPA mpg. Interesting.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Pretty childish don't ya think?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Yep noticed that. The top two hybrids along with the Smart were certainly within the margin of measurable error. This is the third evaluation of the FFH where the FE rating in actual usage was WAY off the EPA number.

    Wassup Ford?
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > Interesting.

    How do you figure? EPA estimates are just standardized measures.

    The road test revealed 49.2 and 36.2 values, which point out a rather huge difference.
    .
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    How do you figure? EPA estimates are just standardized measures.

    How do I figure what john?

    Observation is that EPA mpg underestimates mpg for diesels and over estimates mpg for hybrids.

    Does not matter in the least concerning the Prius as it would not interest me if it was rated at 70 mpg. Mileage can not fix the many faults of the Prius.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,890
    I personally feel the new EPA tests were optimized specifically for the hybrids. The EPA got so much flack over the 60 MPG rating the Prius was given under the old test. Sadly they handed out the tax credits to Prius owners based on the old highly flawed tests. And now the tests are totally off for diesels by the EPA's own admission, and the tax credits are based on the way low mileage. More evidence that the powers in the agency are controlled by the oil companies. If we all started driving diesel cars there would be a gas glut as there is in the UK currently. What to do with all the worthless gas?
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    For our money and driving pleasure, we choose the 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI over the 2009 Toyota Prius Touring. Of course, all that could change in a month or so once we get our hands on a 2010 Toyota Prius which is said to be more powerful, more efficient and up-to-date in terms of infotainment.

    No, the epic battle between diesel and hybrid is not over. Not by a long shot. But sometimes it seems as if we're throwing feathers at throttle pedals.
    TDI vs Prius

    I'd like to see Edmunds compare the 2010 Golf TDI to the 2010 Prius. Will be nice to see the Prius get spanked again.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    What was the criteria to be eligible for that list?

    The Saturn was not sold to anyone. That Two-Mode was canceled, never making it to market.

    The diesel wasn't green on two counts. MPG was nothing to write home about (30/41) and the emission rating was bottom of the scale (Tier 2, Bin 5).

    Of course, if you note the date of publish, much is revealed. There is something interesting after all.
    .
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Please .... be serious. The EPA tests were designed back in the late 70's. They've done nothing to them since then except apply three 'discounts' to the raw data so as to bring them more in line with real world situations.

    The 2nd 'discount' occurred in the early 90's the last 'discount' occurred in Sept 2007.

    Facts are your friend. The rest of your rant is victim-speak for 'Woe is me and the dark cloud that always follows me.'
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