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2009 Infiniti G37 Sedan

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  • It seems that this vehicle will arrive about 1 year after the new BMW 3 series. To me, there are a few reasons the G35 was less than attractive than the 3 series. The 335i is faster and is more refined. Plus, all of your maintenance is paid for except tires. I really think that is where the additional BMW cost comes in. No charge for oil changes, buttons wear out, light bulbs go out, etc; it doesn't matter, it is covered. The other factor is the gas mileage. I thought it was tough to purchase a car so small and get that low of gas mileage.

    Now, with a little bigger engine and hopefully the gas mileage is significantly better I can now justify the sacrifice in refinement as long as the price increase in the G37 is not to much.

    There is one other thing; I don't like that washi finish. I want to be able to get the wood trim with the sports package.

    I'm pretty excited about the G37's potential.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,554
    “the 7 speed automatic transmission. 7th gear is an overdrive gear to reduce RPMs”

    Assuming the same gearing as used in the FX series, I expect that both sixth and seventh will be overdrives. Fifth is ‘direct’ \ 1:1.

    http://www.nissannews.com/assets/specs/2009_FX_Specs_NNA_Final.pdf
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,554
    “Now, with a little bigger engine and hopefully the gas mileage is significantly better I can now justify the sacrifice in refinement as long as the price increase in the G37 is not to much.”

    Ever review I have read of the G37 Coupe mentions an increase in refinement
    of the 3.7 vs the 3.5.
  • tom17tom17 Posts: 134
    If you compare the gear ratio numbers of the 08 G35 Sedan and the 09 FX35 RWD, looking for the RPM savings going to the 7 speed transmission (presuming they also use the rear end ratio of the FX35), they will achieve a reduction in RPM of 0.836x. So if the highway RPM is 3000 now it will be 2508 in the 09. Not as low as the competition, but definately an improvement over 3000 RPM.
    The first gear ratio is very high (numerically) on the 7 speed, so initial acceleration should be even better than the 08 (if that is possible).
    Sounds like a DEFINATE improvement !!!

    See:
    link title
    link title
  • tom17tom17 Posts: 134
    The 335i is faster and is more refined. Plus, all of your maintenance is paid for except tires. I really think that is where the additional BMW cost comes in.

    A loaded G35 is $40K. A loaded 335i is $50K. I think one can get a LOT of maintenance for $10K !!!
  • johninnjjohninnj Posts: 243
    Agreed....I got my 07 with some negotiating for invoice price FLAT....back in april of 07. So I got a loaded Sport model for 14K more than the 335. The BMW dealers were SO proud that they actually had a non-M 3 series with more than 220 or so horsepower...they were not budging. I always get confused on the refinement comment....I think the G is very refined (Engine growl might turn some people off), and I've owned plenty of cars in my years. The BMW interior being sooooo plain jane just did not do it for me.
  • johninnjjohninnj Posts: 243
    15ish % reduction in RPM is a good start...I hope they drop the rear differential (Numerically) in light of the super low 1st gear and drop the applied RPMs even more. I drove my friends grand cherokee the other day and was annoying seeing the tach fall to 2,000ish at 70. I still come back to the auto programming (I have 13K of miles living with mine) as a source of wasteful RPMs....I hope they will be addressing that. I've got another 19 mos or so on my lease....if the new one is not much better....I'll just be buying this one since the resid was low so my buyout is like 20K on a 40K car.
  • tom17tom17 Posts: 134
    Johninnj - What RPM does your G35 turn on the highway (at 70 or at 80)? I have driven them as loaners many times and remember over 3000 on the highway. I bought a Lexus GS350 a few months ago (traded in 90 Q45) because of the high RPM on ALL new Infinitis (and better acceleration & MPG than M35). The GS turns 2300 RPM at 80. Gets 29 MPG on the highway. What does your G35 get? My son is very seriously thinking about the 09 G37 with the 7 speed in about 6 months.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,554
    R&T says 2550 @ 60 ...
    So ( roughly ) 3000 @ 70
    and 3400 @ 80...

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/1207_ct_CTSvsG35S.pdf
  • tom17tom17 Posts: 134
    Wow !!!
    3400 at 80 - that is REALLY EXCESSIVE !!!
    My GS350 is 2300 in 6th, even 2800 in 5th.
    I dont think my daughter's 4 cylinder VW Beetle is more than that on the hwy.
    Even if the 7 speed brings it down 20% it will still be 2720 at 80.
    American cars like the G8 turn 2000.
  • tom17tom17 Posts: 134
    Only 1 MPG ???
    Was it really even worth the effort ???
    I would expect a larger improvement than that.
    Dont think Nissan would have spent the money for only 1 MPG.
    Before I bought my GS350, I looked at the G35 & M35.
    Asked about Infiniti putting in the 7 speed.
    The sales manager said they would never do it before a model redesign
    because they would have to pay to have the car recertified by the EPA.
    Apparently that is a major expense.
    We can just wait and see....
  • loudog2loudog2 Posts: 83
    I was surprised too, when I read that article. But only Nissan knows, and they haven't released any numbers yet. I think that article is just speculation. I personally don't think it will be as big of an increase as people want. But a few more MPG is better than nothing.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,389
    1/20 = 5% ... depends on how it runs through the gears. I'll be it'll be much smoother than the 2008 6-speed.

    Regards,
    OW
  • Sounds right....maybe a TAD higher in real world..but my tires are now prob 50% tread (Affects applied RPMs). If fuel economy and nice easy low RPM cruising is the goal....stay away lol. I ha an 05 s2000 on lease (Turned in 2 mos ago) that would spin just a few hundred RPMs higher at any given speed...6 speed manual 2.2 liter V-tec sports car. Someone at Infiniti really messed up on this. If I buy this car after lease is over...a new ring and pinion will be going in....no question. I have enough torque (Even with the posi in the sport package) to kick in the traction control at 1/2 throttle...or sometimes in 2nd gear....so I can slack off a little on the gearing. It's wasteful...the car is beautiful and clean underneath (Including a nice bellypan for drag), and smooth on the top. They completely ruined highway mpg with the gearing.
  • I got word that the G37 Sedan should be arriving sometime in October. This is sooner than I expected, but great for me. I won't be in the market for a new car until mid next year. That gives me time to hear the reviews.
  • 3100 @ 75MPH...so just under 2.5 MPH per 100 RPMS. 14K on the car...Sport Auto...tires look like 60ish %
    Excessive indeed.
  • The reason to use a greater number of gears in newer autos is not necessarily ONLY to provide better fuel economy. The 7-speed in the new G37 allows for closer/shorter/more aggressive spacing between gears, which increases performance. The extra gears also allows the last couple to be long for low rpm cruising and better fuel economy.

    Assuming that the G37 7-speed Auto has the same ratios and final drive as the new FX and using the tire size from the '08 G35, this new 7-speed will result in 1st gear ending at 32 mph, 2nd gear at 50 mph, 3rd at 79 mph. 80 mph in 7th gear will be just under 3,000 rpm (2,9xx). As you can see, performance will be greatly enhanced at lower mph, due to the greater torque multiplication compared to the old auto transmission. This will result in greater acceleration.

    In terms of the comparisons to rpm at highway cruising, keep in mind that this new engine has a high 7,500 rpm redline - 1,000 rpm higher than the Lexus GS350 that is mentioned earlier. 3,000 rpm is 40% of redline which is close to what the Lexus is running. Even so, we all know that a Lexus is designed to have a different personality than a BMW or Infiniti (I own a Lexus and BMW, and owned a G35 coupe). I am not shocked that the Lexus cruises at 2,300 rpm at 80 mph - they are designed for customers that favor quiet cruising over sportiness (or at least place them higher on priority). The American V8s (like the vette or GTO) rev low for a few reasons - 1. They have lower redlines, 2. They have tons of low end torque and are happy lumping around at 2,000 rpm. 3. They need to have really long 6th gear in order to avoid the gas guzzler tax.

    Regarding fuel economy, do people really care about whether the sport sedan they are shopping for gets 25, 26, or 29 mpg? At 12,000 miles per year, the difference between 25 mpg and 29 mpg is about $270. Would anyone shopping for a sport sedan let that control their driving experience? I'd understand slighlty more if we were comparing 15 mpg to 30 mpg, but not at the insignificant differences mentioned here.
  • It's all relative. And people's MPGs seem to vary....coming out of a TL with 270hp I expected better mpg. My s2000 got 29 and change on a NJ-DC round trip...a 2.2 spinning those RPMs is one thing...a 3.5 is completely different story. Just because the engine revs to 7500 (I could have sworn my tach said 7600 is redline), doesn't mean you use it in highway cruising. The 7 speed is not going to affect the 0-60 as much as you might think..despite the redline....this thing is a torque monster...and even with the Sport and it's LSD rear....I am banging the traction control light at even half-throttle sometimes. Using your own #'s....3rd will take you to 79MPH....so is there ANY reason for anything other than a high-overdrive 7th? Do you really need acceleration up in the 120 + range?
  • 3,000 rpm on the highway at 80 mph is not that high. That is only 2,250 rpm at 60 mph. The reason I related it to max rpm (7500 or 7600) is that cars with higher redlines often have torque curves that rise up as rpm rises. The G35 for instance has a nice relatively flat curve down low but it does rise during the midrange (it makes mroe torque at 3,000 rpm than it does at 1,500 rpm). The purpose of having more revs in 7th gear is so that you have enough power to move out quickly without dropping gears. If 7th gear on the G revved at 2,500 rpm at 80 mph, then that would mean it would be revving at 1,875 rpm at 60 mph. Below 2,000 rpm, the G35 engine is making much less torque than a few hundred rpm later. My BMW 335 revs at about 2800 at 80 mph, At that rpm, the car shoots out in 6th gear without me ever having to downshift. Of course, there is a fine line of compromise between performance and fuel economy. So, to respond to your statement - Yes, performance is important in 7th gear. You dont' cruise around on the highway at redline in 3rd gear, so good available power in 7th is important as well.

    On your other point, 0-60 is becoming less of a good measure of performance. With cars making more and more power, traciton off the line is as much of a factor in 0-60 as anything else. That being said, the new car with the 7-speed is putting down much more force to the ground (Yes, I have calculated this) than the 6-speed manual at low mph. The torque multiplication offered by the shorter gears is appreciable. Of course, this short gearing works better on an auto than on a manual as shifting non-stop trying to accelerate from a light is annoying. I would bet that the 0-60 in the auto is better than the old car even though there is only a 22 HP bump in power (and more weight). The new 7-speed does have a longer 4th gear that goes to 114, so overall performance may be hampered at the higher mph. By the way, if you think the G35 is a torque monster now, wait until you drive the car with the new automatic. I compared the calculated force to the ground to my BMW 335 6-speed and at low mph, the numbers are very similar - and the 335 has alot of torque for a entry level luxury car. I think you will be very pleased.
  • So we 1/2 agree lol
    I've always found the "Top gear acceleration" tests in magazines to be exercises in stupidity. If you drive a manual...and are worried about how it accelerates....then drop a gear. Being a sport-bike rider from years back....I have no issue dropping a gear or two for acceleration. My s2000 in 6th at 60 was horrible....quick drop to 4th (Which I would hold till 100 even) was an entirely different car..3rd just made more noise lol. The G auto in S mode is really fast to downshift...so...for my tastes....give me the super tall 7th....make the other 6 a useable spread of power...and I'll paddle down or let the computer do it for me when I come up next to a 335 lol. Just was racing with one a few weeks ago actually...friggin thing dumped a TON of unburned fuel when he dropped the hammer to take off from in front of me. Only did two runs..one with each in front and I would say it was a really even race. Drag race seems to be a different story...something to be said for the G's porkiness in that situation.
  • 1/2 agree isn't so bad.

    I understand your point with a manual transmission of downshifting when quick passing is required, but 2 things:

    1. It is nice to have the option of not downshifting when you're just on the highway. My 335 accelerates quickly in 6th (faster than many cars that I have driven with their downshift). You really never need to go down to 4th to get out of the way. With my G35 coupe 6-speed, it was a bit lethargic in 6th (although with the sounds that car made - I loved shifting)

    2. We are talking about an automatic transmission. If 7th gear doesn't make good power then the car will tend to hunt more in and out of 7th gear on the highway. Like I mentioned, if they would have went down to 2,500 rpm at 80 mph, then that would have been equal to 1,875 rpm at 60 mph. Slower moving traffic (50-65) means that the car is not making much power at that low an rpm which would lead to more hunting.

    Although I admire the paddle shifters on the G, I would guess that most people who buy automatics will keep the car in AUTO 100% of the time. So, how the car drives in normal mode is important.

    BTW, I brought my G35 coupe 6 speed and my 335 6 speed to the track and the 335 was between .7-1.0 sec faster depending on the run. I know the new G's make more power though.

    I hope that an Infiniti dealership in my area gets a G37 sedan with a 6-speed so I can test drive it, especially now that I have had alot of wheel time behind the 335. I'm very interested to see how they compare in terms of steering feel, handling, noise level (my G35 coupe was a tire noise mess), shift feel, etc.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,554
    Most of the gearing discussions here appear to be making an assumption about the final drive ratio – that it will remain the same as the G35 Sedan with five speed automatic.

    AFAIK, and I just checked nissannews.com, this tidbit has not yet been publicly released for the G37 Sedan.

    Thus, we just do not know what the RPM at cruise will be, nor what the max MPH in each gear will be – and won’t know until the G37 Sedan’s final drive ratio with the seven speed automatic is known.

    0 – 60 discussion is also largely speculation without knowing all the facts – as this ( and the quarter mile time \ speed ) is largely also dependent on that final drive ratio.

    I will be surprised if Infiniti does not take this opportunity to move the final drive to something between 3.0 and 3.2:1.
    ( The G35 automatic has a 3.69:1 ratio. )

    As I posted here a month or so ago, I doubt that Infiniti will retain the 3.69 – going ( at least ) to the 3.357 in the M45 and the 2009 FX35 RWD.

    As someone else posted, combined with the taller ( numerically lower ) top gear ratio in the seven speed, the 3.357 would drop RPM at cruise by 16+%.

    My guess \ hunch is that Infiniti will move to the 3.2:1 ( or less ) range – and the cruise RPM will drop by 20% - or more.

    This would still result in better acceleration, I expect, since:

    First gear ratio in the five speed =
    3.84 times final drive of 3.69 = just over 14:1

    First gear ratio in the new seven speed =
    4.92 times ( a hypothetical ) final drive ratio of
    3.0 = 14.7:1
    3.2 = 15.7:1

    I expect that we will know more – soon . . .
    - Ray
    Been wrong before . . .
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,554
    "Although I admire the paddle shifters on the G, I would guess that most people who buy automatics will keep the car in AUTO 100% of the time. So, how the car drives in normal mode is important."

    My past 3 Sport Sedans ( and my current ride = Corvette ) have all had a manumatic function - activated either by paddles or the shift lever..

    I drive nearly 100% in manual mode - and have in each of these cars - for the past 9 years . . .

    And I expect that I would in the G37.

    - Ray
    Just 1 point on the curve....
  • Very good point. I could see the shorter final drive for the FX as it is a heavier car. We'll find out soon enough.
  • I would say you are in a super minority. I guess nothing in life is 100%. I'll change my comment to 99%.
  • That's funny...as I approached the 335 from behind on the highway I slipped the car (07 G which is actually faster than the older coupe) into DS mode.
    G's have D, DS (Which does the rev match downshifts into turns and nearly INSTANT downshifts on abrupt throttle opening). S mode is kinda radical for daily driving as it hold gears even longer than D mode. Paddles are ALWAYS active....and a quick click will drop you in no time...then put you back into D once it reads the drama gone. PAddle in DS mode locks you into paddles.
    I can't imagine they couldn't program the Gs trans to read steady throttle/speed 7th-gear and keep it in gear.
    For the record...I'm at 3100 in 5th at 75....that is kinda high.
    That IS350 Vs TL-S vs G Sport article showed the G coming to life over 100 MPH....most likely because the others were getting into their highway ratios and the G was just using up it's redline.
    I was only basing my 0-60 thing on the fact the my traction control comes on VERY quickly...despite the LSD rear and the RE050's.
    I look forward to driving the new one....lease is up in 18 months....as it looks now....I would buy this thing...I like it THAT much. Stillen rear diff will fix my highway MPGs and that's that lol
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,179
    i have an 07 x -(which is an automatic --dam you infiniti) -- I know the new acura 2010 TL-X will offer a 6 speed manual when it comes over--has there been any talk about infiniti letting its owners who live up in the snow belt change there own gears?? I also saw that they are going to make the coupe in X (awd) form--ala BmW -- 6 speed there?? --what about a 6 speed infiniti g37X (awd) convertible -- come on infiniti
  • r8cutr8cut Posts: 21
    Infinity's Korea site shows their specs for the new G37 Sedan here: http://www.infiniti.co.kr/g_sedan/featuresspecifications/specifications.html

    After doing units conversion (at this site: http://locost7.info/converter.php) the 3.7L engine with 7-speed AT has 326HP and 226ft-lbs@5200 rpm.

    I suppose that doesn't mean that's how the US G37's will be configured, but...

    (By copying and pasting text, you can get crude translations here: http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt)
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,554
    I doubt the 226.
    The 2008 G37 Coupe has 270 @ 5200....
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