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What should GM do with Hummer



  • smu1976smu1976 Posts: 110
    Actually there is, your probably some youngster or someone between 20-40 at best, there is not one vehicle out there under 200 inches in length, sits 7 and can tow 8000lbs. For you, thats two 2000lbs horses and a 3000lb trailer. If you got a vehicle that can do that and sit 7, tell about it smart boy? The H2 is 40 inches smaller in length than a Suburban and gas mileage is actually better, because a 2500 can't tow 8000lbs, you have to move up the the 454 engine and go with a 3500, with a 44 gallon tank (can sit 8 though). We have H1's and H2's that have hit 300,000 plus and still run well, plus with the altitude we loose 20% Horsepower at every 5K feet. We get our money's worth and the comment is this panic is a good time for us to replace. We haul rescue horses in Colorado and show kids what one can do in this life and world, it does them good, many have had rough lives, abused, abandoned, etc. We can do with a truck, but we can't but groups of kids in the bed of the truck. Also, shaving 22 inches off your length makes it much more adaptable to numerous conditions. So get off my [non-permissible content removed], cause your in some city and all upset cause you see one heading to the mall with 22-26 inch wheels in LA. Does everyone use everything they have for a intended purpose, hell no. Then you get somebody like you trying to rule the world.
    Get over yourself and image and stop worrying about everyone else's. Try to do something good one day that just rip on people. Cow farts and lawnmowers put out more waste also, so why don't you have GM go into the lawnmower division (there, on your topic) and you personally take the initiative on plugging the cows [non-permissible content removed] for us (your personal task).

    Now for GM, the Hummer in their best year was never any contribution of any significance to the bottom line. Suburbans, Escalades, Tahoe,s Danalie's and on and on, there, where sales are down nearly 70% is what is killing GM. What do you do with all those, this is your GM topic junior, tell me units sold of those versus Hummer in their best year ever? I would not worry what GM does with Hummer, and being a stockholder I could care less, GM is spending more on Healthcare than steel right now, it's not Hummer that will put a single digit on the 10K, or save a job, it doesn't mean anything, do you understand that? They will be cranking out Aveo's quicker than you can plug three cows asses (the kids came up with that one, I liked it). You know nothing about trucks, nothing about the auto industry, even less about business, but your great with judging people. You could probably use 2 weeks out here with us, I'll change your outlook on life no charge, for some of these kids are way ahead of you already. We are outside of Leadville Colorado all summer. Take it easy fellow, there is a lot more out there than worrying what a company is going to do with one model in this life and again, if you got a vehicle that can match what they can do (H2) and haul, give us an answer, cause we (most of us are in our late 50's and 60's) haven't found one? I don't think you will, but I will give you the benefit, cause maybe I am wrong and can learn. In the Winter, we let the patrol use them on saving out of bound lost skiers, lost snowmobilers, etc., Saving a few life's, not worth anything to you? Should the guys change cause we aren't cutting it with your image? Nothing goes through snow, rock and can take grades than these beast. It's not a daily driver, but has a purpose!
    Pull 8000 lbs, sit 7 there is your use!
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    Uhh, wow. Smu, I'm glad that you're using the vehicle for its "intended" purpose. I don't have an issue with that. My base instinct of hatred for the Hummer kicks in when I see it being used as a daily driver in Atlanta. My dislike for the vehicle was also based on the attitudes of the people that I met who drove them. You've done an excellent job of reinforcing that opinion with your comments.

    If you got a vehicle that can do that and sit 7, tell about it smart boy?

    Ok, I'll start you out with one. How about a Toyota Landcruiser? It beats the Hummer in ever category. The build quality is better, the comfort is better, reliability, resale, you name it. I'll provide a link for you to check that out.

    So that's one vehicle that I found in about 3 minutes of looking. I can keep going if you want, but I'm sure I could come up with about 4-5 more alternatives.

    So get off my [non-permissible content removed], cause your in some city and all upset cause you see one heading to the mall with 22-26 inch wheels in LA. Does everyone use everything they have for a intended purpose, hell no. Then you get somebody like you trying to rule the world.

    That's exactly right. It's wasteful and silly when I see people driving to the mall in these things. They can absolutely do it if they want to, I'm merely voicing my opinion. This is a forum, after all.

    You know nothing about trucks, nothing about the auto industry, even less about business, but your great with judging people

    I don't know a ton about trucks. I know enough to get by, I suppose. I've been selling cars for 6 years so I would expect that I know a bit about the auto business and industry. My people judging skills? They seem to be a bit better than yours at this point.

    It sounds like you've got a great retreat there in CO. I'm sure it would do me some good. Judging by your post though, it sounds like you should think about getting a vacation for yourself. You may be losing focus.

    By the way, you wouldn't happen to know someone name Macky Morris would you? He was an old college buddy and worked out there in CO on some ranches.

  • Checking bookmarks just now, Ed Wallace's insideautomotive had a link to Detroit News article stating "Gm..., Hires Broker for Hummer"

    If India and China? said no - then who is the broker going to ask?

    Fix the twins before the F100 hits?
  • Just read on the forum that Citibank is to review the brand. Guess the marketing department is like the Monty Python sketch about the army - colors and textures. So, it must be a money issue.

    Went to see a jeep parts manager recently and also sat in a wrangler. While narrow, the seats were soft, unlike the crd and the h3, but the rubi's window sticker was an awakening.
  • If the H2 is AM General, H3 is only Shreveport and is desert runner/grocery getter, and the twins come in last in small pickups, eat the loss, shut down Shreveport, concede off road to the rubi, and give small trucks to Nissan/Toyota (like Ford did).
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,958
  • smu1976smu1976 Posts: 110
    topic, what should GM do with Hummer, not H2, H3, but HUMMER

    Son, go back to the fancy book learning, cause whatever system you had there is not working. First, anytime I have an individual write “my hatred” it’s usually time to move on, for you might be on the next train to Auschwitz, but I will further indulge your misunderstanding of the vehicle, and once again, that the vehicle has a purpose. Remember, the post, GM sells Hummer, so put your Landcruiser against a H1, matter of fact, Barry up here says you better put two of them against an H1 with that new Lexus engine at this altitude.

    1) The Hummer H2 has a towing and payload capacity of 10,186 pounds

    2) The Landcruiser has a towing and payload capacity of 10,085 pounds, so a no win here, 3-4 minutes will always get you those results, wrong ones. If you don’t add the two, put the Landcruiser in all wheel drive (worse gas miliage, your are definietely correct, you don’t know a lot about trucks). I don’t either, but only stated it has a purpose, but these boys up here, they know them and know what works in this part of the country and quite frankly bust out laughing when they heard Landcruiser. “ We need someone that can work”!

    3) They did ask what your two or three other recommendations are, since I said, we are always open to recommendations and learning, we have no “hate”, but we don’t have time to teach auto salesman.

    4) In addition, the Landcruiser does beat the Hummer in price, you are correct their young fellow by about 10-12K in current market conditions, then add on that GM has 0% financing for 6 years till the end of the month for suppliers and employee’s for all their vehicles, (we can get that, most people can if the check with the employer), may you can match our price or maybe have your dealership donate a Landcruiser?

    Car salesman, so this market has to be good for you right?
    I am a tad older than you, retired and remember when the Pinto and the Vega were the last answer to the fuel crisis, trust me, this will pass as most recessions, depressions, as gas shortages have in history. All large truck sales are dropping, not just Hummer, that is what is killing every auto manufacturer, including Toyota, very hard on Tundra sales, damn Toyota stock is down 20% this year. You think any large truck sales for any one brand is up; these are the vehicles with the most profit. Why the poor sales, its only the Hummer which sold 70 thousand trucks their best year ever? It’s not just gas, it’s the economy, our mortgage and loan crisis, people who need trucks for work, business, are not buying them (or even cars) times are tough, we are in recession, you know your credit approvals are down. My post states, time to buy for panic of gas prices causes good market conditions correct for the aforementioned product? One of us up here has about 7 dealerships taking in about 3-7 SUVs in the Midwest on a day on trades; this should be good for your right? He’s knows there is money to be made, do you?

    Now, this is going to clean the earth, because all of these SUV’s,
    Trucks, Boats, Private Jets (watch those owner's fly them into Aspen and then hop in their Prius), Jet Ski’s, Lawn Mowers, Weedwackers, Power Washer’s, Chainsaws, and anything with a gasoline engine that could possible be economized and made greener since we in little North America “go green”, will be crushed? No, at worst, sent on a ship to a foreign country will they will run them for 30 years (see Cuba’s history and take longer than 4 seconds and see that 90 miles off the coast of Florida how many 1950 American vehicles are being run with more pollution than all Hummers combined).
    Now is the time to put someone into a new Corolla, make your commission and
    Make a donation to the charity of your choice this Sunday. Be a professional, don’t state your occupation and “hatred” on a car forum post, then recommend a Toyota, just a little business acumen, it just may help your reputation especially with our Veterans of WWII. Remember, Hummer is made in Indiana, by Americans, Manufactured by AM General for GM. AM General
    was purchased by American Motors (Studabaker, actually the same plant used for Hummer) which made all Jeeps and Hummers (same brand) hence still the same
    looking front grill, still today. Then sold Jeep to American Motors, made for regular consumer, then bought by Iacocca at Chrysler around 1989, learn from the best auto salesman, a genius with a heart. Finally GM bought the military only version left of AM General, consumerized the H1, then H2, H3 (consumer only).
    Now remember, the consumer was paying 5-15k over sticker 5-6 years ago for the H2 (look back at postings, its so educational about our economy and panic reactions). The H1 which still manufactured today is used everyday by our
    Troops (is not going to be sold to the middle east, Tata, like the Range Rover and Jag, Englands flagship brands).
    Barry (the care dealer owner) informs me, Troops have know intention of changing to the Landcruiser, but they would enjoy the plush ride, highway tires, and fit and finish, but the low door and large glass design, may be a problem with gunfire and insurgents.


    No vacation needed, done working, fully retired, loving life, sometimes
    working in charity for several months, know horses from the frog in their foot
    to the knot in their tail, know kids and the two seem to learn from each
    other and get along just fine, which maybe is a lesson for all even you and I.

    Good Luck
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    I feel like you're having a conversation with someone else. You're kind of all over the place.

    I'm stating as a individual consumer, not as a car salesman, that I hate Hummers. I suppose that is too strong a word since you automatically think "Auschwitz". :confuse:

    If you're using them for its intended purpose as a troop carrier through war zones, then I can totally understand. Driving the Hummer around town on urban highways seems just ridiculous. If someone bought and drove an M1 Abrams tank and used it as their daily driver, then I would really hate that as well. Pretty simple. I didn't like them when gas was $2/gallon and I don't like them when gas it at $4/gallon. Not driving them isn't going to save the universe. It will simply bring a little joy to my heart. I think they are just a sign of complete excess. Personal taste.

    All the people that I talk to who need offroad vehicles are using Range Rovers. I have several clients who work and have business in Africa and the RR is what gets the job done. It appears to me that the Hummer is simply a bad fad. One I think we'll be best suited to do without.

    I sell Porsches, so it's not like I'm pandering for my own brand. The imports, over time, have shown that they have greater reliability, fit/finish and many are still built in the States.

    You're speaking from ignorance oldtimer. The times they are a-changin'. I think you're being left behind with your Hummer.

    Good luck!
  • Replying here and not at Straightline. Why are sales down? MPG not really an issue with the Three. 17 mpg on the recent trip keeping up with the traffic and some local driving included, could be compared how? to millions of trucks and others getting less. Think the Hummer image was Fox'd.

    The two could stay with American. The three could be morphed with the twins [but please who okay'ed that last truck (and twins) headlight design-what a turnoff-calling for ralph-where is the bowl].

    better_half just last night said she would buy Blue_Beauty again even knowing this current information. Looked at a wrangler unlimited (15-19mpg)again yesterday-yes know about leaky roofs, old 3.8L motor, yes been burned three times with Chrysler-Belvedere, New Yorker, and CRD.

    Just waiting for now. Tired old back, getting harder and harder to climb down into the Bu. b_h even considering another three. '09 16mm tie rods, iron front diff, steel roof (albeit no wrangler cage).

    Or make electric streetcars in Shreveport for the future New Cities. One dozen fresh farm eggs for one quart of pickled gardenville variety okra plus one vacuumed packed dried celeste figs or one wheelbarrow of green paper-so how much is that three in the window.

    A recent h forum post showing a severely crushed three and comments that a Murano scored better. Earlier at that site a Dallas three driver was rear ended by a - 9 ton earthmover 4x4 truck motorhome? (memory fading). Just recently in Dallas a truck (F150)? hit a Windstar minivan? Only thing recognizable on tv, was the grill and blue oval - all five died.

    And just yesterday on a tv interview, people are walking in Arlington, Tx, the city that taxed themselves to make J.Jones a billionaire while they reject mass transit. One was a student from Kazakhstan walking 4 hours 20 miles. The reporter stupidly asked how it was where he came from - the answer was better than Arlington. The reporter said something like - that's embarrassing. Please no dumbed down remarks about yankees, unions, foreigners - 30+ years here (Sam brought me to DFW and never found the exit door)-heard it all several times. I know how stupid I am - I don't want to know how stupid you are anymore.

    So, you can walk, ride a horse, use mass transit if it is available, or pick from what you can afford. Everybody uses red green's line-we're all in this together.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,958
    So, you can walk, ride a horse,

    Friend of mine called this morning and was talking about how we're all going to be forced to ride horses because of high gas prices.

    I asked him if he'd priced hay lately (it's up to $9 a bale around here!).

    More topical, a big Hummer will pull a big horse trailer and lots of people have 4 and 6 horse units. There's 4 horses on my little dead end street and the owners use big pickups to tote the trailers around.
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Posts: 833
    if you think that Hummer sales are not reflective of the gas milege they produce then you are in complete denial. It's not just Hummer, it's SUV's in general.

    I'm sure you can get 17 mpg under some ideal condition, but face it the epa estimates don't even call out for fact I couldn't even find the epa estimates here on Edmunds.

    I'm sure for every Hummer there is at least 1% of their owners who actually put them to good use. But as the sales #'s reflect, the excess of owning something like a Hummer has caused GM to want to unload the beast.
  • Interesting that you chimed in on horses. The post originally was to start about farmers and ranchers, of which we are neither. But we are aware of both. TOFGA, SAWG, and a little therapeutic riding volunteer work. And haven't been to Colorado for some time and haven't seen an H2 pulling a trailer. At a rodeo within the last year, b_h's relatives, professional riders, mentioned the swing from dodge cummins to gm duramax/allison.
  • You are probably correct about the 1% but not our fault. Compromises and marketing mistakes may have been one reason. IFS, aluminum front differential, 4.56 gears. The three was a compromise, a pseudo jeep/denali(?), that's what a previous post stated. And someone posted at h forum about a chipped, open exhaust, alpha three on cruise getting twenty mpg. Don't know if the 3.7 can pull 3.73 gears and survive commuting requirements - not just highway cruising. Was hoping for someone to set me straight. Off roading can be done by a jeep or truck, and the marketplace is there with their hearts desire for improvements. It is still one great compromise. All that said, like the three and maybe someday that will be a project.
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    Let me selectively pick a couple of points here:

    "My base instinct of hatred for the Hummer kicks in when I see it being used as a daily driver in Atlanta........."


    "It's wasteful and silly when I see people driving to the mall in these things......"

    and then,

    "I sell Porsches"

    Now, I can't argue against the fact that in some ways it's wasteful not to use a vehicle to the limits of its design. Most vehicles fall into this under utilized category though, including both Hummer models currently available (which are very capable off road), and most Porsche models (which are very capable on the track) plus the Cayenne which manages to be good at both.
    The only vehicles that come close to full utilization are commercial vehicles carrying a full load 24/7, carpooler's vehicles to and from work, and single seat mopeds and scooters when being ridden.

    To my point though, which is, how can you complain about the majority of Hummers not being used to their full capability, when the same applies to the majority of Porsches that you sell?
    Many H2s get taken off road at the weekend, just as many Porches get taken to the track, but both are equally wasteful of their potential when being driven to the store.

    I do believe you hate Hummers (the H2 specifically?), I do believe that the red mist comes down when the soccer mom manages to take up two parking slots at the mall with one; I believe it because I've seen it in others. My problem is that I don't understand it because I don't feel it like you do. Slight annoyance yes, but no more so than at Denalis, Suburbans, Expeditions, etc., etc.

    Can you explain the hatred for one but not for all? I don't think you can point to one 'wasteful' aspect of the H2 that isn't matched by at least one of its brethren from the big three.

    I see the emotion that's there, though I don't feel it myself, but I definitely don't see the logic; that's the bit I need you to help me with. :)
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    Hi Mac,

    I think the irritation about the product is just instinctual. I see it as the top of the food chain for complete excess and wastefulness. Therefore, it gets me riled. I think it also has to do with the fact that it was produced for military use and driving the horses around in CO, I don't think you'll come under heavy fire. Nor do I believe you'll get into that kind of situation at the mall (although things are changing). :shades:

    I would have to take exception to your point about Porsches. These vehicles are the most reliable, economical sports car on the road. You might argue that the price of them is completely unnecessary, but I don't see the connection with a Hummer.

    These sports cars are made to be enjoyed as daily drivers. Do all of our customers do so? Absolutely not, but many do enjoy them every day. Our Boxster returns 30mpg on the highway. That's pretty awesome. For the new 911, they have reduced emissions by 15% and added direct fuel injection which improves gas mileage and performance. There's a lot to be said for how Porsche takes care of the environment and isn't wasteful. Do you need a Porsche? No, you never will, but I dont think it will ever fall into the same category of Hummer.

    You asked about Porsches not being used to their full potential on the track. Yes, many of our drivers don't know how to drive worth a lick, but I just don't see the correlation with Hummer. Hummers are cheaply made, poor reliability, poor gas mileage, poor resale, etc. Porsches don't match any of that. I suppose I would feel a little bit better about Hummer not being used for it's original purpose if it did something well. It just falls on it face, in my opinion.

    Suburbans, Expeditions? I see a lot of people using those for horse trailers and major people haulers. It just doesn't pull out the same hatred. :blush:

    Does that help?
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    These vehicles are the most reliable, economical sports car on the road.

    Nevertheless, Mac does have a valid point. How many of those Porches are actually used to anything near their potential? But then you could say the same for most vehicles. Apparently, you just don't like "BIG." Others just don't like those pesky little sportsters that weave frantically from lane to lane, are hard to see and annoy everyone else. :P

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    I think the irritation about the product is just instinctual. I see it as the top of the food chain for complete excess and wastefulness. Therefore, it gets me riled. I think it also has to do with the fact that it was produced for military use and driving the horses around in CO, I don't think you'll come under heavy fire. Nor do I believe you'll get into that kind of situation at the mall (although things are changing)............

    ..............Does that help?

    Hey Moo,

    Kind of helps, though I think it's the image you hate rather than the reality
    I need you to clarify one thing though; is it the H2 you hate, or is it all things Hummer? You see, the Hummer most commonly seen on the roads these days is the H2, with the H3 catching up fast. The H2 was never designed for military use and would be ill suited for such a task. The civilian version of the military Hummer is usually referred to as the H1, and as only 11,000 or so have been produced since 1992, over half of which have been exported and many were strictly commercial versions used for mining and construction, it's not too common to see one on the highway (though LA and Miami seem to have more than their fair share). Those were/are designed and built by American General (AMG), which has nothing to do with GM other than they build the H2 for GM using GM supplied parts. For a more detailed explanation see my earlier post here: AMG/GM.

    I suppose I would feel a little bit better about Hummer not being used for it's original purpose if it did something well. It just falls on it face, in my opinion.

    Just as on track performance is something that Porsche does well, offroad capability is something the H2 has in spades, much more so than comparable 4x4s from other manufacturers.

    Anyhow, back to original point, it's the 'Hummer hate' that intrigues me, not because I drive one (they just don't appeal to me) but because that attitude is occasionally misdirected to me, usually in the form of a raised finger by Prius pilots as we pass. I drive an H1, which when I run on recycled WVO (waste vegetable oil) is consuming 100% less petroleum based fuel than the Prius (which is why the finger always makes me smile :) ).

    (Incidentally, if you can accept that the H2 is good offroad you just wouldn't believe what an H1 can do.)
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    I agreed with his point. Only a few of our buyers can actually use them to their true potential as a pure sports car. However, I see it as being quite different since they aren't obnoxiously in your face and wasteful. Porsches do many things well besides just being good on a track. Do you see my distinction?

    Mac said that the H1 and H2 were very capable offroad. That may be one thing that they are good at, but I have to wonder about how capable they truly are with that much weight being hauled around.

    So after driving and looking over the H2, I saw that it had poor build quality, terrible resale, cheap interior, difficult to manuever and horrible gas mileage. That's when I thought to myself, "This vehicle has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I hope the brand gets dumped."

    So, if you're comparing to Porsches, these vehicles do so many things well. Great resale, fit and finish, performance, reliability, emissions and fuel consumption, etc. So, even if someone isn't using it to its full potential, at least other things are done very well.

    Do you see my distinction?
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    Kind of helps, though I think it's the image you hate rather than the reality

    That may be true. I've only driven the vehicle for a short time and have not owned one. It is the H2 that my irritation is directed at.

  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    I haven't owned a Porsche either, but I've always admired them and I certainly agree on your comparison of build quality and materials; and I think we can agree that neither has its design specialities used to the full by most owners either.

    No, the issue that fascinates me is the negativity that's directed at Hummers and the H2 specifically, rather than at all large SUVs, and I think that the reason I can't really get my head around it is because it's an emotional reaction rather than a logical one.

    I think it's a case of either you 'get it' or you don't, and in my case I don't 'get it' but I do think I understand it a little better now.

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