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2013 and earlier Volkswagen Tiguan Lease Questions

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  • So I take it the advertised sign and drive deal for the S with automatic is not a great deal. It's 0 down / 369mo + tax, title, license if I'm not mistaken. If I wanted this particular vehicle, what would I need to negotiate to get it at or very close to invoice? Any help here? I want to get this car today. Thanks all!
  • aramismaramism Posts: 28
    i mean my best advice is to let them know off the bat you are not "joe consumer" and start talking detailed numbers. simply trying to negotiate payment/front fees is a telltale sign for them that they can play smoke and mirrors with the real numbers. you are better off doing a little research on how leasing works and understanding the scienece behind it this way you can spit out some lease jargon to let them know you are there to deal.

    you would also be best advised to ask them for a detailed run through of the numbers. once you get the money factor, residual, the cap cost, how much they are selling the car to you for (even on a lease) you now have the "dna" of the lease deal they are offering and can shop this with multiple dealers. if you want the car that day after you go through the detailed numbers, balk at any price above invoice, or whatever level you wanna pay. just tell them that you are ready to to business right then are there but refuse to get the car for anything over invoice. you can throw in how eventually you can deal with multiple dealers and eventually get what you want anyway or the sales guy you are dealing with can just cut his time spent and give you a deal you are going to get in the future anyway now and save himself the time. the time he saves dealing with you, the shrewd consumer, is more time he has to try to deal with the non shrewd consumer. remember, unless it is like a brand new car that has all types of hype, invoice is pretty easy to get if you push the right buttons. they will tell you they make no money at invoice but there is still a small little cushion for them at invoice. not a ribeye steak but like a cracker. but hey, a cracker is better than nothing when you are hungry. and with the state of the economy, all car dealers are hungry if not starving.
  • aramismaramism Posts: 28
    oh and as far as the advertised deal, just ask them what the breakdown is for that as far as what that lease figure is based off of... that will tell you if it's a great deal. goto edmunds.com and research new cars, and price out the car you want with the options trim level etc. it tells you a pretty accurate idea of what the invoice is. use this as some sort of standard to base off what they tell you. FYI most advertised specials are based off MSRP pricing so you know you have room to wiggle.

    i got my mother a jetta in april as part of the sign and drive when it was nothing up front. not even taxes.

    i'm pretty sure the deal advertised was $249 with nothing due up front at all except like DMV fee. the advertised car was manual. she ended up getting automatic and the winter package for the same price. $249. i think i posted about it on this forum and someone else said i was full of [non-permissible content removed] but whatever.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,704
    Do you think I can get under $400 a month for an SE Tiguan? With $0 down. My only issue is if I go with this model, is that it has cloth seats. Real bummer, but a real possibility. My mother already has a Jetta, which I really like. I would like this model or the Wolfsburg Edition Jetta!
  • Yes! It is possible.
    The whole issue for me was the 36 month vs. 39 month periods
    That extra 3 months flips you into a new year and really extends the lease term, probably at a time when you can't wait to get out of that 3 year old lease.

    Here's what I was given as a quote for a 36 month which was @20.00/month
    more than the 39 month version:

    36 month 10k/mi year $395/month incl tax, NY Dealer
    with 4motion, Roof & Navighation & Rearshades & Monster Mats Kit
    $500 out the door, loyalty money applies

    Yes, no leather in the SE is Ridiculous. The color choices are also pretty bad, what were they smoking when the chose that Blue???

    Loaed SEL version as above should hit around $430-440 momnth I am guessing?
  • k2chadk2chad Posts: 18
    Here's what I was quoted tonight and an SE 4Motion with roof and mats 39 mo, 12K/yr:
    MSRP $31,484 Invoice $28934, dealer cash for December is $578 on the SE so real invoice is $28,356.
    Selling $29,813
    Residual 56%
    Money Factor 0.00135
    Acquisition Fee $575
    Cap Red. $624.
    Doc Fee: $218
    Runner $40.00
    RMV $86.
    Monthly pre-tax is $375

    I know acquisition is non-negotiable, but Doc fee seems high, and what the heck is a runner? I need to get the car to invoice before I will come close to leasing this car. We seem to have a lot of 4Motions in New England, so they're not scarce
  • k2chadk2chad Posts: 18
    I shopped extensively online. I benefit from having about 6 VW dealers in a reasonable radius of 30 miles or so. Decided I wanted a white 4 Motion SE with panoramic roof. 39 month sign and drive lease, 12k miles/yr. Everyone out there was using standard December VW 0.00135 money factor and 56% residual. I knew going in there is a $578 dealer holdback for December, expiring Jan. 2.

    Dealer 1 is the closest to me, right down the street, did the test drive, told them to show me a number. SE with roof, protection kit, and trailer hitch. This is with no negotiation at all:
    MSRP $31484
    Invoice: $29306
    Buy price: $29813
    Aquisition: $575
    Doc fee: $258
    Registration: $86
    Down total: $1000
    Sales Tax 5%
    $393.82/month with tax.
    Total Lease cost: $16,358.98
    I walked immediately, saying I wasn't interested.

    I then solicited 2 other offers on the (almost) same car via email. Really wanted the white SE, so even though there are a lot of cars out there, white SE 4 motions are not all that easy to find around here. No hitch and the others and they had mat kits, not protection. I told all I didn't care about the mats. They could keep them. Was able to sneak about $100 below invoice giving me a monthly of $375 with tax, after a solid week of back and forth and meeting and beating offers. Both dealers wanted $599 on the bank fee though and wouldn't budge, as well as $29 extra for the inspection sticker.

    Went back to dealer 1 on Dec. 30. Started with a buy price on the lease $500 under invoice (knowing they still had $78 in the holdback). No dice with the salesman, $400 over best he could do. Brought out the sales manager. I had printouts of the emails from the other dealers showing them that it was indeed possible to get below invoice. Told them I didn't need the hitch. They could keep the mats and take off the mudguards for all I cared. Leave it empty on gas too, gas is cheap right now. $250 over invoice best he could do. Got to the general manager. Spent a good hour just with him, back and forth. Got to invoice finally. Did the whole "do you even know how a holdback works?" game. I walked.

    Dec. 31. Back to the dealer #1. Again, closest to home. Didn't want the hitch or mats/protection, but that's what was in stock. I brought a check and laid it on the desk, wrote in the dealer name. Told them $29,213 buy price ($93 under invoice and $600 less than my initial quote with them), I make the check out for $919 now and sign the papers.

    Why $919? Aquisition: $575 + Doc fee: $258+ Registration: $86. Did NOT want to roll these into the lease cost and pay interest on it. Also I firmly believe it is never a great idea to use cash as a cap reduction on a lease, for various reasons if the car is totaled.

    I got the deal! Lease per month is $372.19 with tax. VW pays first payment per sign and drive, and the inspection sticker is thrown in.
    Total lease cost: $15434.31.
    My savings: $924.57.

    What I learned: The holdback is fairly sacred money. I was able to get $93 of their holdback, so they still got $485. But getting much lower than that was impossible for me. Probably because it's a 2009 model, it's all wheel drive, winter, and a blizzard outside too.

    Acquisition and Doc are not set in stone. There must be a minimum VW value for these, but dealers can clearly mark them up a bit to make it seem like you're way under invoice.

    VW dealers seem to stick to the published VW lease rates. I've known some BMW dealers who will try to pull a fast one on the money factor to make some cash. Sleazy. I was impressed by this. Also, the money factor isn't that bad right now on these cars. 0.00135 is 3.24% interest.

    When negotiting a lease, start with the buy price of the car. As you can see, I will have $924 more in my pocket by negotiating. Wasn't that easy, but well worth it.
  • stoopystoopy Posts: 105
    My only criticisim of your deal is that you went in wanting "sign & drive" and ended up dropping almost $1,000. Big mistake. The docmument fee is a bull crap fee. The dealers use it to make easy money. To my knowledge only one state in the U.S. actually even "LIMITS" the fee, meaning the dealers basically have you at their mercy unless you demand they not include it.

    The acquisiton fee is legit and you will never get out of paying it. Never put ANY money down on a lease, ever. You could have paid your first 2 payments with that money.
  • Congratulations on getting your new Tiguan, k2chad. Thanks for taking the time to post such a detailed description of your deal. Real world examples like this are invaluable for community members who are in the market for similar vehicles. Don't forget to hop on over to the Dealer Ratings & Reviews section of Edmunds.com to share your thoughts on your recent dealer experience there as well. Enjoy your new ride :shades: !

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • Hi,
    Will appreciate if someone can let know your thoughts on the below based on your expertise/experience. Where can I get them to improve or negotiate?. Got this from a Dealer in Houston, TX.

    "12k per year is $429.45 and the 15k per year is $442.68. Now, I forgot to include owner loyalty of $500. So, with the owner loyalty and you paying your TTL, your payment would be for the 15k per year plan $416.20 a month.
    PRICE $ 23,642.00
    STATE LOCAL TAX $ 1,493.19
    PHANTOM $ 249.00
    DOCUMENTARY $ 50.00
    TITLE $ 33.00
    LICENSE $ 59.80
    INSPECTION $ 23.75
    CITY ROAD & BRIDGE $ 11.50
    INSURANCE & REG $ 1.00
    INVENTORY TAX $ 52.23
    DRIVE OUT $ 25,615.46

    Thanks
    Fco
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,704
    Your payment seems really high for a car priced around $25k. You can get a $30k car for around that payment.

    I think your average payment for a car this price should be $330-370 or so. Depending on lease factors. I would go back and try again. Get other quotes from other dealers too.

    Seems a little off. I have a $24k car and I only pay $319, with $0 down. Standard lease. Though, lease numbers play a role, but only to a point.
  • k2chadk2chad Posts: 18
    We would need to know the exact vehicle description, MSRP with options, and terms of the lease to know if it is a good deal. Money factor, residual value are the big ones and should be standard for VW, but you need to check them to make sure. Also, are the lease terms 36 or 39 month? Again, this makes a difference.

    Once you get the MSRP (should be on the window sticker), find the invoice price, again with options that you have on the vehicle. This should be the price you start from in negotiating your lease. Google a lease calculator and use it to see how much of a difference your buy price makes, usually a fair amount. You want to get as close to invoice as possible and if there is a large supply you can probably get beneath it. If your heart is set on one color or option package then it will be harder. You can also find out the dealer incentives, either again by sleuthing through the Google, or buying the Consumer Reports Tiguan info for January ($14). As an example, my SE 4 Motion had a $578 dealer holdback until Jan. 2. I was able to use this in my negotiations a little bit as I knew how much they would still take on the car.

    Finally, don't put money down as a cash cap reduction. I did opt to pay $919 out of pocket on mine, but these were for origination fees only. Not to reduce the vehicle price. A true VW 'sign then drive' lease rolls these into the lease.

    Also realize that the VW bumper to bumper warranty is only 36,000 miles. I can put up to 39,000 miles on my car. I'm not a fan of the 39 month lease for this reason. But occasionally VW and others will offer to 'pull ahead' leases near the end of term. I will gamble with the last 3000 miles being not under total warranty. VW also pays the first month on a sign then drive which is nice.
  • Hello I'm new to the forum and glad to see the wealth of data here on the Tig.

    I leased my Tiguan S with MANUAL transmission w/ monster mats and gorilla gear for $320/month tax included and $500 down (against the origination/admin fees). The lease is for 39 months and with 15,000 miles allowance a year.

    It was a bit of a strategic layered attack...first bringing the cap cost down (MSRP was $24,200); then bringing down the money factor; then going after the residual value; and then going after the dealer fees/holdbacks/etc. There was still some fat for me to trim but my wife was tired from the days of going back and forth so I had to pull the trigger prematurely but I guess it was decent enough.

    The car drives great and is a lot of fun with that 2.0T engine matted to the 6MT!
  • stoopystoopy Posts: 105
    Your payment seems really high for a car priced around $25k. You can get a $30k car for around that payment.

    I think your average payment for a car this price should be $330-370 or so. Depending on lease factors. I would go back and try again. Get other quotes from other dealers too.

    Seems a little off. I have a $24k car and I only pay $319, with $0 down. Standard lease. Though, lease numbers play a role, but only to a point.


    Actually lease numbers play a significant role. Matter of fact, they are the only factors. I pay $340 on an MSRP $32,000 car (36 months, zero down, 10K). Leases are solely determined by the money factor and residual. It is assumed that you have already negotiated a good selling price. My point is, you really shouldn't shop cars, you should shop the best lease numbers. You may find a $28,000 Honda Accord that leases for $480 per month. You may find a $28,000 Subaru Outback that leases for $350. The difference is in the money factor and residuals.
  • I just test drove and loved the Tiguan SE. I received the following quote from the dealer for the following: SE, NAVI, SUNROOF, 18" Wheels, etc...
    MSRP $31,305
    INVOICE $29,314
    SELLING PRICE $28, 814

    Which i think is a good offer, however, the lease numbers seemed way too high for a $28k car.

    Lease Offer: $1500 down, $536/Month, 36 Months, 12k Miles/Year

    Does anyone know what the current money factor is on a 36 month Tiguan? This offer seems almost laughable.

    Appreciate any feedback. Thanks
  • Yes, that does seem quite high.
    There is no set money factor on any lease.
    EVERYTHING IS NEGOTIABLE.

    You should be able to get a money factor close to .00135 but you got to fight for it.
    You will also want bring the cap cost down through negotiation, not through money down. You will also want to negotiate up the residual value (perhaps around 58%) as well as the number of miles allowance per year.
  • k2chadk2chad Posts: 18
    Good job on getting the selling price down. Now get the dealer to show you how he got those numbers, what money factor and residual were being used, and what other fees. Now get yourself a lease calculator, google it, there are a few available.

    I don't know the current lease rates as they expired Jan. 2, but the numbers I ran with the old MF of 0.00135 and residual of 56% come out to a $392/month with ZERO down, including the $575 bank fee.

    I am glad I got the panoramic roof, but it is a $1300 option ($1148 invoice). Make sure you want navigation as I have heard mixed reviews of how good it is.

    Also, get numbers for $0 down and then play with paying some of the bank fees out of pocket if you have some cash. I got to a decent deal doing it that way.
  • stoopystoopy Posts: 105
    You are kind of right, kind of wrong.
    The lease numbers are set by the finance company. Residuals are set but will usually increase if you get a lower mileage lease. The money factor will be set on every model and most of the time it even depends on the trim level. The only time these numbers will EVER change is if you haven't negotiated a low enough sale price. For example: a car MSRP's for $28,000 and you go in and say "I'll give you $27,500 for it." The dealer is simply going to rework the money factor and residual to make it seem like you got some killer deal. 95% residual makes up for the fact that you could've got a sale price of $23,000.

    A smart person gets several email quotes on the money factor and residual and checks forums like this THEN negotiates a fantastic selling price. If the dealer tries to stick it to you by lowering the residual or increasing the money factor you call him on it. So really, for most people, the only thing negotiable on a lease is the sale price. Everything else will be set in stone. The money factor will vary depending on your credit worthiness but the residual isn't going to change until new numbers are set by the finance company.
  • k2chadk2chad Posts: 18
    Absolutely right. The residual values and money factors do change by lease terms. But as you stated they are set by the finance company.

    I shopped around a fair amount by email, and I found every VW dealer in my area to stick to the published lease rates exactly. That made me feel pretty good. BMW on the other hand had tried to make it sneaky last time I leased. You really do have to put in your due diligence in researching leases before you go to the dealer.

    Also, be careful when email shopping of dealers that won't give out prices via email. That's why they have an internet department. In reality, they want to hook you on email, then get you into the dealer to make a sale. Sales are emotional events, you're much more likely to cave in person. Don't. State up front that you want to do everything on email. It can be painfully slow, but if they want to sell cars then they have to utilize the (outdated) technology.

    If I were a car dealer, I would fully embrace the web 2.0 experience. Get on facebook, get prices out on twitter. Do deals in text messaging. I only found one dealer who played the email game well, and that means quick messages, no crap ads, and real negotiations.
  • stoopystoopy Posts: 105
    You and I think alike. So should everyone reading these forums.

    I did my entire last lease via email. After first email dealer said, "call me" and I said I preferred to use email only. He respected my wishes and once we had an actual written deal in place I agreed to call him to give him my Social Security number for credit check. Then I said I would come in to sign the paperwork but if they tried any sales tactics on me I was running for the door. He had the paperwork ready when I arrived and I looked it over, signed, and was out the door in about 30 minutes. That's the only way I will ever deal with car salesmen ever again. The key to doing this, in my opinion, is to be upfront with the salesman from the start. Tell them you are not just wasting their time looking. You have a specific vehicle in mind and you know what the invoice price is and money factor, residual etc. Once they figure out that you aren't some dumb melon farmer, they will quit trying to jerk you around and try to sell a car.
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