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Sunroof leak on my Saturn Outlook



  • nancy1960nancy1960 Posts: 54
    If you live in California you can contact a lawyer that deals with Product liability. I think it's against the rules on this site to mention the law firm however it is on the Saturn-Gm Outlook and Arcadia lemons page on Facebook. The law firm gave me permission to mention this firm that is located in San Francisco. I recently contacted them and gave them a wealth of information but unfortunately I don't live in California and the laws don't apply to me. However, they said by all the information on our car I provided them we definitively had a case if we lived in CA. I hope those in California can receive some justice and help with GM. The law in CA is not only Lemon Law but breach of warranty of mercantability. This only applies to certain States. It allows a vehicle owner a repurchase if the vehicle has so many problems that it does not meet the legal standard for ordinary goods of this type.If you go to the Facebook page and scroll down there is a story of a man that lives in California that through the Better Business Bureau and due to the laws that apply GM bought his 2007 Saturn Outlook back, no money out of pocket as he was represented by the BBB. Good luck to those that this law applies to, I hope it's helpful information in this unfortunate, injustice problem we are all facing.
  • Tobster1Tobster1 Posts: 12
    I received an email with the following post in it for the message board but now the post is removed or gone. Not sure why. It was post #401. The person mentioned a 20/20 investigation and frankly I am shocked it has not been proposed sooner. I had bought a 2007 new Saturn Outlook. A few months after owning it when it was raining it poured water onto my feet. The dealer kept trying to fix the "leaky" sunroof, said there was a repair for the sunroof, but it never stopped. Then one day my power steering started to fail in the rain. It was dangerous. To make a long story short I filed for lemon law, was fought by GM, they gave me alot of BS for a few months of trying to fix or working with me etc. In the end we went to mediation and I fought them, yes, their big scary corporate lawyer who does this every day all over the country (you know fights the small guy). He was polished and quick witted but in the end the mediator saw through it and awarded me. They had to take the car back and give me back every penny. Which is all I was asking for. Take back your lemon. I still get updates on this forum and it makes me sad to see that all of you are still going through the same problems car after car. If you can get rid of it and play hardball right back with GM. Stay in there it can be done.

    #401 Re: Leaky Sunroof - 07 Saturn Outlook [thegumbogirl] by nancy1960 Jun 16, 2012 (11:32 am)
    I think this is such an injustice to what is happening to so many owners of Saturn Outlook, Buick Enclave and GMC Arcadia. With the help of all those affected by these water leaks with no fix in sight regardless of repairs we need to have a large voice against GM. We can only exchange certain info on this site (?) and I don't want to violate the rules. I would would like to contact 20/20 Investig...
    View/reply at: Re: Leaky Sunroof - 07 Saturn Outlook [thegumbogirl]
  • bubbles56bubbles56 Posts: 6
    I just Googled "Leaky Sunroof cars" and along with dozens of websites complaining about the 2007 and 2008 Enclaves, Acadia's and Outlooks, there were several UTube sights that show how to fix a leaky sunroof. IT might be a quick fix until you get a lawyer to fight GM. I still think sending emails to all the Large News Companies and local news stations, in addition to a letter to your Attorney General and filing with the BBB is the only way to get a class action law suit started and won. Nancy1960 has some fantastic information on the secret warranties. I was able to get my Sunroof fixed at their cost the third time it went in. I made sure it didn't leak for a month before trading it in and getting rid of that headache. I am still getting the word out there about these known design flaws with these vehicles.
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Posts: 54
    Hello Tobster~ The post was removed by Edmunds because I suggested a site that we could go to with the hopes of organizing as a group to proceed with 20/20 regarding Secret Warranties/water leaks with no solution in sight regardless of multiple repairs. I understand Edmunds position and did not intend to violate their rules. I'm grateful for Edmunds, I have gotten a great education here and learned I'm not alone with the leaks. Congratulations on your victory!!
  • wowelshwowelsh Posts: 1
    How in the world does one find/unclog the drain tubes on the 2008 Saturn Outlook that are causing all of these problems? We are having the laundry list of water related problems that everyone else has mentioned, with our (purchased new) Outlook. I was searching online hoping to find a tutorial or walk-through on how to unclog the drain lines, since that seems to be a way to prevent further issues. We (I use the term loosely, meaning my husband) would love to know how to take care of this ourselves, as hubby is a very handy guy when it comes to cars, and does almost all of our repairs. I've only been able to find one reference to unclogging saturn drain tubes and it doesn't apply to the outlook. TY in advance for any help!
  • pacamry1pacamry1 Posts: 6
    edited June 2012
    I have had my 08 Outlook in to the dealer six times. Have been through the tube extensions and all the Service Bulletin fixes. The Chevy service manager says the problem can't be fixed, and it's GOING to leak. He is a former service manager for Saturn when they were in business and knows all about the problem. I will have to take it in every couple months to get the drainage tubes cleaned out. This problem is NOT fixable and my car has a permanent musty smell. I have no recourse - frustrating!
  • gmcustsvcgmcustsvc Posts: 4,057
    Thank you for taking the time to post your concerns. Can you please email me directly with your VIN, current mileage, and involved dealer? I apologize for your frustrations. Have you spoke with Customer Assistance? I look forward to hearing from you.
    GM Customer Service
  • grafin_lupusgrafin_lupus Posts: 7
    edited July 2012
    I bought a 2008 Outlook certified used in Sept. 2011 from a dealership with less than 34000 miles on it. Now the trough or channel in front inside where the sunroof is mounted is filling with water. It overflows into the headliner, runs down the windshield and drips in to the dashboard and floor. The dealership offer to leak test it for $105. I see there is a bulletin for a VIN range that my vehicle does not fall within. The repair is for replacment of drain tubes. Other forums have owners complaining that the fix doesn't work. NHTSA has 16 cases of this for just this model year. I hate to pay for a problem caused by poor engineering. Not fair for a known problem. What can be done for me?
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Posts: 54
    You should not have to pay a dime!! From my extensive research this has happened to cars that VIN #'s are NOT included. This is a huge productive flaw that GM is VERY aware of. Unfortunately, because there has been no Class Action YET to address these horrific issues these cars are being traded in with existing water leak issues which falls on the next the consumer with devastating results to say the least. This problems in my opinion fall under the "Secret Warranties."

    Call GM!! Good luck to you and stay strong!! Research as much as you can before talking to GM and don't let them tell you that you have to keep those drains clean.

    If you live in California, Connecticut, Maryland, Virginia or Wisconsin you have added protection.

    States with Secret Warranty protection:
    In order to protect consumers from undisclosed defects, five states (California, Connecticut, Maryland, Virginia, and Wisconsin) have enacted secret warranty laws and other states are considering secret warranty legislation.

    Uncovering Secret Warranties:
    Secret warranties are a multi-billion consumer abuse. Every auto company makes mistakes in building cars. Whether they are design defects that affect every car or whether they are manufacturing defects which affect only some cars, they must be repaired. The only question is who pays for the manufacturers' mistakes, the manufacturer or the consumer. Although the auto manufacturer often establishes a secret warranty to pay for the repair, all too often it is the consumer who pays for the manufacturer's mistake because the consumer never finds out about the secret warranty. That's wrong and the Center for Auto Safety wants to change it.

    In a 1987 report the Center for Auto Safety (CAS) created national headlines by identifying 10 exemplary secret warranties covering 30 million vehicles and $3 billion in repair costs. Yet this is but the tip of the iceberg for we estimate that at any one time over 500 secret warranties exist for all auto companies. According to a Toyota whistleblower who provided a complete list in May 1988, Toyota alone had 41 secret warranties at that time.

    By exposing secret warranties, CAS forces manufacturers to pay for their mistakes and creates a strong incentive for them to build better cars in the future. once secret warranties are disclosed, consumers will save hundreds, if not thousands, in repair bills on their personal cars. Spurred on by CAS exposes, state legislatures are moving to pass secret warranty disclosure laws that will protect consumers. Until then, consumers must rely on the strategies suggested in our book, Little Secrets of the Auto Industry, to discover and use secret warranties to pay for repairs in their vehicles.

    What is a secret warranty?
    Auto companies hate the term secret warranties. They call them policy adjustments, good will programs, service campaigns or extended warranties . But whatever they are called, they are a longstanding industry practice. When a car company has a major defect that occurs after its written warranty expires, it establishes an adjustment policy to pay for repairs rather than deal with many thousands, if not millions, of complaints on a case by case basis. But the auto company communicates the policy only to regional offices and not even always to its dealers. The auto manufacturers never notify the consumer; so only the consumer who complains loudly enough gets covered by the secret warranty. Other consumers end up bearing the costs of the manufacturer's mistakes.

    Examples of Secret Warranties
    CAS has documented case after case of secret warranties since our founding in 1970. one of the first and most famous was Ford's J-67 Limited Service Program which covered rust on 12 million 1969-72 cars and trucks. In this case a bulletin which went out only to Ford regional offices stated, "This is a limited service program without dealership notification and should be administered on an individual complaint basis." Under this program, Ford would pay up to 100% to repair rust and paint damage on its vehicles even if it cost over a $1000.

    CAS has uncovered secret warranties on all auto companies with little differences between them. A 1972 Mazda secret warranty bulletin doubled the coverage for rotary engine damage but cautioned, "Since this is a temporary program which may be terminated at [any] time, owners are not to be informed of the extended coverage." Honda had secret warranties on head gaskets and rusting fenders in the mid-1970's; Chrysler had rusting fenders on Volares and Aspens in the late 1970's; GM had the transmission secret warranty caused by a ban on sperm whale oil as a lubricant; Peugeot and Subaru both covered defective head gaskets; and VW covered valve stem seals.

    Secret warranties soared after 1980 when the federal government dropped all efforts to ban them. GM had a 5 year/50,000 mile secret warranty covering repair of defective rack and pinion power steering systems on all 16 million of its 1981-88 front wheel drive cars. Toyota covered pulsating brakes on its 1983-86 Camry in a $100 million secret warranty. Ford never told owners of its 1985-92 F-series pickups that America's most popular truck had peeling paint because Ford skipped the primer layer. According to Nissan documents provided to CAS by a whistleblower in 1990, Nissan had at one time up to 48 secret warranties covering various cars and trucks.

    There is no doubt that auto manufacturers presently have many other secret warranties. However, assessing how widespread secret warranty programs are is difficult because these programs, by definition, are not intended for public disclosure. Since CAS began exposing secret warranties more widely in the 1980's, the auto makers having gotten better at keeping them secret. Even CAS can no longer get lists of secret warranties to disclose. one Honda insider told CAS that Honda has only one secret warranty book for each of its regions. The book is chained to a desk. Every page has the region's number superimposed on it so that any photo of a book page would show the region from which it came.

    But it is known that the regulatory climate has been very favorable to the automakers since 1980. Furthermore, secret warranties are viewed by the automakers as an effective tool to maintain good customer relations. Loyal customers and customers that complain loudly and persistently are rewarded. Other consumers get saddled with repair costs caused by the manufacturers' mistakes.

    No Uniform Law Requires Secret Warranty Disclosure
    No federal law requires auto companies to disclose secret warranties. In the late 1970's, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) sought to litigate individual secret warranties against each auto company beginning with piston scuffing and cracked blocks in 1976-78 Fords. The FTC settled its case by requiring Ford to notify and directly compensate owners according to the secret warranty policy and to notify all future
  • Thank you for your encouragement and information. I have an appointment at a different dealership than the one that gave me the outrageous quote. They have serviced my husband's car there and say they will try to "help me out". I did call GM customer assistance and got a case #. I will try to keep this forum posted as to status of this case.
  • dompdomp Posts: 24
    Any luck finding any info on clearing the drain tubes? If it's as simple as blowing them out with compressed air periodically, I'd do it myself.
  • Blowing them out with compressed air is exactly what I did. Worked fine but its too bad that the design is so poor that this is necessary. In a heavy downpour they may still not drain fast enough.
  • Yep but unfortunately gm doesn't want to issue a recall for this or headlight problems or transmission or any other known problems for a lot of people I guess they just don't believe in standing behind their products integrity gains trust and business, just sayin i am with u all on these problems and all they say is sorry actions speak louder than words. :mad: :sick: :confuse:
  • Just wondering how many of you that gm wanted to reply to actually got help not out of pocket. Do they not see these post numerous problems people are having with these vehicles it is not coincidental gm recall for these and stand behind your products integrity is everything actions speak louder than words :mad: :cry:
  • After taking my 2008 Outlook in twice due to the front sunroof leaking, I got really worried when the BACK moonroof started leaking. After reading many posts on this site I called GM customer service first and got a case number. I then called my service place (GM/Chevy, former Saturn), told them my problem (and that I had contacted GM as I felt this was a faulty vehicle issue) and asked for an appointment to verify where the problem was coming from, and an estimate so I could tell GM. Now I really like our service guys but this was the best service I've had yet. By the time they called me with the estimate, they had already contacted GM, gotten it 100% covered, and were ready to get started. The back moonroof had to be removed, holes in the roof filled (design flaw-if this doesn't get fixed it will keep leaking), then moonroof replaced. This was also causing engine probs due to water dripping on the fuse block. Fixed too. I live in the Pacific Northwest so they have likely had more experience w/ these issues due to the rain, and since it's been fixed we haven't had any monster storms. I'm hoping the next rainy season doesn't cause me any problems since I really love my Saturn. But it's very disappointing to read of all the frustrations and difficulties for others. Hoping this info is helpful and best of luck.
  • Thank you for sharing your great news with us, amyjean01! Many more happy miles to you!
    Sarah, GM Customer Service
  • I'm very happy for you amyjean01!! I hope this repair is successful. I too live in the Great Northwest and had the same problems such as a flooded fuse box, and extensive repairs including a new motor to the back latch motor as that was flooded too. Most importantly, they sealed the holes for you!
    I noticed after extensive repairs I continued to have electrical issues with interior lights, temp gauge and radio not going off. Eventually, GM offers a warranty that after much research does not cover water intrusions.
    It's interesting that during the summer months this forum slows down with posts regarding water leaks. We bought our car in June 11' and by Jan 12' it was a lemon and not a safe vehicle.
    You are now aware of the design flaws of GM, please, report your issues with your car to National Highway Traffic Safety admin. on line. This is criminal that GM knows of these flaws and hundreds of consumers lives have been devastated by these known , extensive problems.
    Best of luck to you!!
  • I left work yesterday to find the check engine light on in an 07 Outlook XR (warranty expired, 138K km). I turned off ignition and the engine ran on for a good 30 seconds before shutting down. The check engine light remained lit even with keys out of the ignition. I took it to the dealership and just found out the fusebox is completely corroded and needs to be replaced due to a water leak. This vehicle was repaired under recall for the sunroof drainage tube issue. Searching the net, I found that this is a known issue and GM has issued a notice on it.

    I am now lookinig at a major repair bill to replace the fusebox and correct the water leak. Why hasn't a recall for this problem been issued?

    This is a serious health (mold) and safety (electrical malfunctions) issue.

    An unhappy, long time GM customer
  • dompdomp Posts: 24
    I had the exact same issue. Only suggestion I have is to make sure you report it to Don't think it will help with your current bill, but maybe a recall will be issued helping the next victim, or if it happens again. Customer service at one point offered me some credit towards another GM or some free oil changes, but they didn't follow through on it.
  • Good morning tgrace,

    As you're using kilometers as your unit of measure, I'm supposing that you're writing from Canada? If you had wanted to connect with Customer Assistance, GM of Canada can be reached at 800-263-3777 (Hours: M-F 7:30am - 11:30pm, Sat 7:30am - 6:00 EST).

    All the best,
    GM Customer Service
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