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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,765
    edited October 2012
    Indeed not even PG & E does that !! Pacific Gas and Electric. Guess what? They are the nat gas and electrical (they do have a limited number of nukes also, solar and wind I think they vendor out) PROVIDERS !!! I am not sure what that tells Steve, but I know what it tells me.

    I had some time to talk to a PGE responder (recently .... circa 2012) and casually asked him what fueled his company vehicle used to get to my location. He didn't hesitate: RUG. End of discussion. What did you all expect me to do, do a Hare Krishna on hare krishna? ;) :sick:
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,181
    Well, we have some flex fuel vehicles now. I'm thinking more in terms of viable alternatives to just gas or diesel. Like the port trucks switching to CNG. More alternatives could lessen the price shocks when a fuel price blips because of a weather event, hostilities, or production breakdown.

    If 95% of us were driving diesel passenger cars, a refinery meltdown will still result in a price shock.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    Propane/RUG options have been around a long time. A friend has Propane tanks in the bed of his PU truck. Starts on RUG and switches to propane. Depending on the cost of Propane.

    I don't think EV will be practical any sooner than Hydrogen. Hydrogen at this time is made from Natural Gas. Most is used to make fertilizer for, you guessed it. Growing corn for ethanol. What a mess the greenies have made.

    Hydro electric is going away as dams cause more problems than they solve. I like Nukes. But most people do not. Wind and solar have serious issues. CA has expanded their electric generation to mostly Natural Gas.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,765
    edited October 2012
    Evidently this CA state "boutique" fuel debacle is getting LOADS of press. The Auto Club AAA pegs the average price @ $4.66 per gal RUG. While those fuel consumers iinterviewed on cable and local TV's, were not asked political affiliation, it seems most are frustrated to fed up, angry and scared, etc.

    Funny and tragic how the EPA et al were able to put CA fuel in "BOUTIQUE STATUS" (aka monolithic specialty product with no alternative refinery sources) and are now flat footed when no one else (the other 49 states refinery capacities) can be an alternative vendor.

    Senator Feinstein is calling for the authorities to "round up the usual suspects" to use a quote from an old Bogart movie. Casablanca Claude Rains

    But perhaps more on nexus is the 59 sec to 1:22 min of 8:01

    link title
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 394
    From what I understand of the US gasoline market ( at least i read it somepoint in the last ten years, forgive me if it has changed now ) is that it is just not California that has it own fuel standards but every county can set its own standards for fuel additives etc, which is why pricing can vary so much from one area of a state to another for no apparent reason. It would definately make more sense for this to be regulated nationally so that the supply ca be regulated better ( I.e. a refinery breaks in California then fuel from say Texas can be shipped to them with only slight price adjustments and no shortages to run prices up). Even if the whole country adapted the California fuel the country would be better off with supply ( maybe not milage though...). Also the oil companies need to stop closing refineries to the point that if one breaks down that there is a fuel shortage and prices go up, they need to invest some of their profits into updating the old refineries and building some new ones, I know no one wants one in their back yard, but they need to be built somewhere, and everyone seems to enjoy the products produced by them so some new ones are needed before the system breaks down completely.
    All just MHO of course.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,765
    edited October 2012
    A lot of refineries are their own entities.

    Even though this sounds weird, no one is willing to allow opening new state of the art refineries. To wit there has not been a new US refinery built in over 35 years, almost one biblical generation. On the flip side, most to all are relieved when one is closed.

    Chevron (Benecia/Martinez, CA) the one that just had that fire and malfunction not too many years ago got enjoined from making a $ 2 B upgrade to the same facility they now say is ... problematic. So then when something "breaks down" or wears out, everybody wants to go through the standard hand wringing procedures, with predictable results, aka nothing to cover up.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,904
    edited October 2012
    nice. it figures that Honda would give us the next infinite-range modern electric (+hybrid) leveraging a design similar to (better than?!) GM/Volt/Ampere.

    The petroleum-engine-charges-batteries approach will supplant the obsolete electric-only design of the limited-range electrics such as Tesla. If you buy an all-electric tesla or fisker, it should be an obsolete/collector car within 5 years, eh? :| :shades: (Think of it as a good thing, like a delorean.)

    Diesels run especially super efficiently at certain/low rpms, eh? What if a Volt-like electric car were available with diesel engine instead of gas...

    Seems like it might be overkill efficiency but it sure would be fun to try a VOLT DIESEL . Sign me up on the waiting/interest list for one.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,181
    edited October 2012
    I don't know why it sounds weird. Not many people want to live next door to an industrial site. A chemical plant/refinery would be among the worst neighbors you could have, and their influence isn't limited to just their site. Even a "clean" industry like a data center causes heartburn, especially when the power goes down and the diesel generators kick in. (NY Times)

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  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 394
    It is basically the same situation up here, the oil companies close a lot of their refineries to the point that they are running at capacity to meet the requirements of the market ( I know it is probably better for them to run at full capacity, but there does need to be some extra capacity for emergencies) and then you still hear about the possibilities of other refineries closing. I know the companies need to make a profit, but they also need to be able to meet demand for their product. And yes no one wants them to build new or increase capacity of old refineries, but they are more than willing to complain when a problem at a refinery leads to high prices/ and or shortages ( not that the oil companies seem to really want to do something about the lack of capacity as they can charge more for their products). At this point I think it is the refineries that are the bottleneck causing the bottleneck of supply. Of course that doesn't mean that prices would be lower with more refineries, the oil companies ( and of course Goverments with % based taxes) like the higher prices due to better profits, as can be seen when there is news that decreases supply the prices go up, and when there is news that increases supply prices go down but rarely to the level they were before the prices went up, even when the costs have gone below that point.
    It is not something that we as consumers have a lot of power over, except to keep buying more efficient cars when we buy a new one ( but nobody should be buying a new car just for. Fuel efficency if they can't afford it). And even then that just lessens the blow of high fuel prices not erase it, and of course the prices go up when we use less ( just like water rates in cities, the prices go up as you use less since the fixed costs are the same and need to be paid regardless, same with electricity etc, the consumer never sees the full benefits of the conservation).
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,765
    edited October 2012
    Actually the history of industrial sites in the country shows that to be TOTALLY accurate; that at least those cities that spring up next to now dwindling refineries.

    Silicon Valley is replete with examples (industrial, etc. sites). Indeed the whole place is example after example after example. Most to all of the area used to be orchards and farmlands. Part of the reason for CA being called the land of fruits and nuts is not for sexual preferences and mental disorders.

    SIDEBAR: ironically, there is a (HUGE) silicon valley company (most would recognized the name) that actually took over the "sprawling" facility that actually used to BE a mental facility!

    The area even has (now going defunct) salt ponds (started as Leslie, now Cargil?) , aka the phase SALT of the earth is a morph on salt mines and ponds. Not too long ago if you had a freezer or just like to pick out sides of beef, you could literally go down to a local (silicon valley) slaughter house and get the order fulfilled. Longer story here but I think all get the drift.

    Probably more on nexus with passenger cars is a recently closed passenger car and light (really light truck) aka NUMMI factory. They (Toyota side) actually made cars and trucks that were actually CONSUMED in CA. Some folks might have heard of the Toyota Corolla, Tacoma, etc ? If you listened to the auto unions, working there was literally almost like working for a Biden slave factory or coming over in a New Englander slave ship. (yes a bit of election hyperbole) Funny what happens when Toyota and GM decides to close the place down for not only was it not profitable everybody was trying to literally regulate it to death. When it actually died, they were literally all panicked and surprised that it actually did die.

    So interestingly enough with RUG @ 4.63 from the less than $1.85 when the current administration took off, the price of fuel as gone up 150% in almost 4 years, UP almost 38% per year !!! That is actually a pretty good job at getting the prices UP !!!! It is especially good in light of the the drop off in fuel consumption. Even Saudi Arabia is concerned. But in truth it is almost a no brainer. To get the fuel prices even higher all they need do is to close another (marginally profitable) refinery. I bet they are hard at work, making it so ? :sick: :shades: :lemon: After all, the Obama stated goal always has been European fuel pricing ($10.00 US per gal)

    Now I do not find $10.00 gas really freaky. No, I am not George Clooney Beyonce or JayZ, etc. (for a .037 cent per mile driven cost) , all we need are cars that get 270 miles per gal !! ;)

    Sidebar: why .037 cents per mile driven? At the start of the current admin diesel fuel was 1.85 per gal. With a 50 mpg 2003 Jetta TDI that = .037 cents per mile driven. And you thought I was being unreasonable? ;) :surprise: :shades:
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,181
    there is a (HUGE) silicon valley company (most would recognized the name) that actually took over the "sprawling" facility that actually used to BE a mental facility!

    lol, perfect. And Ellison running the place now fits too. :)

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    Ellison running the place now fits too

    And expanding. Just bought the whole Island of Lanai.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,765
    edited October 2012
    Yes and the enviro cons that have driven out old church mice into the boonies dont want anyone to drill in the boonies because the church mice who were driven out of the churches being perfectly happy in church have set up residence right on the drilling and refinery lands ! ;)

    Actually they have done that to perfection in Yosemite ! It is just that those mice have Hunta Virus. ;) :blush:
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,181
    edited October 2012
    Even funnier is how everyone becomes an enviro con when a factory or fracker announces they are locating in their neighborhood or on their deer camp or next to their fishing stream or state park.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,765
    edited October 2012
    The urban scenarios that crack me up are when a (example) NATURAL Mountain Lion or Bobcat goes to a city/suburb and eats Muffins (the urban FAT cat, no I am not talking about those folks at Goldman Sachs). Would you like a latte with that? There is an immediate cry to KILL THE BEAST !!!!!! (after writing their CONGRESSMEN)

    Not that anybody cares, I say let em eat a bakers dozen or so ;)

    Look MA, anybody can be an urban enviro con.

    It might foster some understanding why ranchers or farmers with livestock tend to be a bit upset when wolves are reintroduced by those same type enviro cons.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,181
    edited October 2012
    We need a few more packs around here. Can't drive 10 miles without seeing a couple of deer on the shoulder. It's getting so I wish I was driving one of those 10,000 pound duallys with a cowcatcher on the front. You know....

    a diesel.

    Prices in TX are likely going up now:

    Fire hits diesel hydrotreater at Exxon Baytown refinery (Reuters)

    "A hydrotreater is not a main production unit at a refinery. The loss of a diesel hydrotreater could lead to reduced diesel production, but would not impact wide-scale plant operations."

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    edited October 2012
    I was very lucky to be driving a 3/4 ton 4X4 when I hit that big buck in Sun Valley. It was not drivable after that. What would have been the result in a Prius or CorVic? It could be worse. You could live in NYC where people cannot walk their dog without risk of being attacked by Racoons. I see an opportunity for someone to open a new restaurant selling [non-permissible content removed] Burgers. I ate raccoon in Mexico and it tasted like duck.

    New Yorkers petrified as hundreds of 'hissing' raccoons invade the city

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214703/New-Yorkers-petrified-hundreds-h- - issing-raccoons-invade-city.html
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,398
    Hahaha; I can't keep up with this thread! The PFD is based on 50% of the average investment returns over the three previous fiscal years (in this case, FY09-11), less various administrative fees, and divided by the # of qualified filers.

    It is what it is. The only thing the government owes me is accountability; anything else is cake.

    I bought my heating oil for the winter back in July and paid $3.53/gallon for 750 gallons.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,765
    edited October 2012
    Too funny !!!

    Perhaps not so funny, raccoons carry and transmit RABIES.

    A coincidence? WiKi says WOLVES and BOBCATS are natural predators of .... raccoons !!!! :surprise:
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,398
    That's an impressive car! Sad thing about the 19" wheel option, though, is that the 21" has a gorgeous design, whereas the 19", a much more practical wheel size in my opinion, is just a ho-hum off-the-shelf design. That certainly doesn't encourage one to choose it!

    Were it in the cards, I would go for the 85kW unit. Better fun factor, MUCH better range. If the Supercharger vision comes to fruition, one might even be able to take it on (well-planned!) trips. ;)
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,398
    Oh, heck ya! The best way to deal with mammal pests is to eat them! :P

    If we had issues with moose around here like Steve's area has with deer, I'd have my bow hanging next to the front door and a 25 cu ft chest freezer in the garage. You know, just in case. ;)
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    Anchorage is awash in moose. I would guess FBKs has their share of moose and caribou? I would hate to hit a moose with anything smaller than a 1 ton PU truck. They do serious damage to a car. The excess animals should be harvested for the homeless.

    The new Mazda 6 wagon should be something you would like. IF it ever gets to our 3rd World Corn Republic:

    The SKYACTIV-D 2.2 diesel engine is available in either Standard Power or High Power versions. Both engine types comply with Europe's Euro 6 emissions standards.

    image
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Perhaps not so funny, raccoons carry and transmit RABIES.

    OK, I'm not going to go Animal Channel on you, but try not to pick on raccoons. Every mammal is capable of carrying and transmitting rabies including your neighborhood squirrel, bat, fox, skunk, domestic dog, domestic cat......your spouse...

    Speaking of which, our neighbor's highly domesticated wife went nuts a couple of weeks ago when he was traveling and she went to put out the trash. I saw our Village police cruiser pull up with the officer ready to draw his gun. Turns out, she saw a pair of "huge raccoons" in the trash can, convinced that they were rabid and ready to attack her. I intervened (I know the officer) and took a peek. Two 3+/- month old baby raccoons had figured out how to get in the 4 foot deep plastic can, but couldn't get out. Rough estimate, less than 5 pounds each. I scooped them up (wearing gloves) put them in a box and carted them back to the nearby woods. So far, I'm not foaming at the mouth or experiencing any crazy spells. At least not any more than usual.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,765
    edited October 2012
    For sure I would not pick on a raccoon, ESPECIALLY a female with babies !!!! ;)

    I am sure if you had gotten bit or scratched they would have made you go to the hospital and probably insisted you get the rabies shots protocols.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,398
    I saw it and am definitely interested. Heck, anything the size of a car with a diesel puts it in the "interest" category!

    I was very interested in the Jetta TDI wagon after the discussion here, but couldn't find anything in the used market and just could not justify an extra $10K over what I spent for the extra space.

    Now, I am back in the "watch and wait" category so I can see how the car market evolves over the next few years.

    I'm serious, though, when I say that if Subaru offered their diesel Forester stateside (with MT, of course), I'd trade in my '10 Forester in a heartbeat.
  • I'd buy the VW AllTrack (concept car) in a diesel if it had a manual transmission and it was available for purchase.

    price of the car - $25k - $35k depending on the make and features.
    price of fuel - Less important than fuel economy.
    practicality - Wagon or Small Crossover. 4 doors and hatch. AWD, Quality interior materials. Heated Seats. Auto Climate control.
    MPG - 25mpg average minimum.
    manufacturer - Audi put a lot of effort into the Le Mans series. Let's see the payoff. Most manufacturers had diesels outside of the US.
    performance - What's the equivalent of 160hp gasoline engine (minimum)?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,765
    Well, this continuance of some of the first posts of this thread does one of two things. It either sums up the concept that whatever gassers are made should have diesel/s to multiple counterparts. (like Europe) or indicates fierce resistance at many levels to ... diesels.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Sharp looking wagon, but the CX5 and CX9 are doing well here, so we'll never see it.

    Hopefully we do see a CX5 diesel. The 2l gasser lacks torque. Of course it's a small non-turbo pulling a lot of weight, so no surprise.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,765
    Both to either are naturals for a TDI or whatever Mazda choses to call them. It is like the BMW, etc MB ML350 and the GL 250.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited October 2012
    Yeah, on the heavy side, designed to haul people and cargo, maybe even tow a little. Not city cars at all.

    Definitely a diesel's target market.

    Edit to add:

    whatever Mazda choses to call them

    SkyActiv D
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