Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

1225226228230231441

Comments

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited October 2012
    O.K. Sounds like I'd be prudent to limit my DIY attempts to other things that don't risk removing the Black Sapphire paint from my wife's X5. She might remove a couple of my body parts in revenge.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    Is the X5 filler on the outside with the fuel filler. One of the Adblue vehicles has the filler in the same spot. Best to use a good funnel and be ready to wash any drops that may hit the paint. Safe for humans not most metals.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    edited October 2012
    Oh no, I did not intend that to be a response, especially from a DIYer. (like yourself)

    I do understand that the plastic dispensing product is standard in the BLUE DEF product space.

    Before and after watching the techs doing the job, I already knew how and was bound and determined to be ABLE to do it myself. One caution I did pick up was that if you reused the smaller sized dispensing (1/2 gal) bottle with the bottoms cut out to was to use a rag over the cut off end to avoid air burping causing product backsplash.

    Really the hardest thing about the procedure once you have the proper equipment is to pull the stuff out of your trunk, i.e., unbolt your spare tire and pull out. You can even use a long neck funnel, but the reused bottle dispensing system is GREAT if you are getting near filled as it stops the excess from splashing as a funnel will NOT, all over the floor of your trunk.

    Peak 2.5 gal Blue DEF and hose adapter

    Here is a sample of what the dispenser looks like:

    AdBlue DEF Diesel Exhaust Fluid 1.89 liter 4 - 1/2 Gallon bottles 4 Bottles

    Dispenser bottle AdBlue/DEF diesel exhaust fluid
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    edited October 2012
    Evidently, (in hind sight) the 2012 VW Passat TDI seems to be hit. Out of 2,276 units LEFT in the inventory, there are only 91 diesels !!!
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    Evidently, (in hind sight) the 2012 VW Passat TDI seems to be hit. Out of 2,276 units LEFT in the inventory, there are only 91 diesels !!!

    Which is about 4%.

    Do you know how many Passat TDI's were sold in MY 2012, versus the total number of Passats?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    edited October 2012
    They do not typically come out with a (2012) MY sales figures till Jan or Feb (2013) . However YTD is 83,662 Passat units Sep. 2012.

    Last year (2011) between 22-23% of the VW fleet (app 324,500 units) were diesels. So that is app 74.6 k diesel units.

    link title

    On the 2012 VW Touareg, the best swag I have are 7,773 total units (7112 sold/661 unsold) manufactured. 2011 Touareg sales were 7535 units. (for app 3.2% more)
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,129
    Unleaded gas is dropping fast around here, unlike diesel.

    Today I got RUG for $3.52. Same station was selling diesel for $4.09 and I saw other stations selling it for $4.29 and $4.39.

    Paying 57 cents a gallon more sounds a lot worse than the 16% percentage differential.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    edited October 2012
    Corner store prices

    ULSD $4.35

    RUG $4.33

    PUG $4.53

    We need CA state and Fed tax credits for having to put up with these inequalities. :P :lemon:

    CA state of course blames the Fed. The Fed of course blames CA state. The refineries blame the CA state and FED and court systems and world wide taxation. I have even noticed that counties blame counties. They should work in county tax credits we can take on state and fed taxes !!
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,129
    I wonder how the transportation industry would react if there was a push to increase the number of diesel passenger cars with incentives like the hybrids got.

    More demand could tighten supply and drive prices up for the truckers, in which case they'd start running over TDIs. :D

    I suspect the supply would simply increase though. Toss in some tax relief and you could increase the number of diesel cars on the road.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited October 2012
    Where are you located that ULSD is 57 cents higher than RUG? What is PUG going for?

    We hav only filled up 3 times, but in all cases in the DC area, diesel is less than premium and usually about the same as mid grade. All of the other vehicles we were considering (BMW, Acura, Audi, Mercedes) and currently own require premium, so that is our relevant comparison and we are usually saving 10-20 cents per gallon with diesel.

    I can't quite figure out what's up with the Shell station in DC:

    RUG: 4.09
    MUG: 4.35
    PUG: 4.45
    Diesel: 4.15

    The are much higher than suburban stations for gas and we would never go there, except as a last resort, but they are actually relatively competitive with suburban stations relative to diesel.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    edited October 2012
    I am not sure what you mean by your post.

    Diesels (passenger vehicle fleet) have LONG been SEVERELY disincentivised. CA state levies a The 5% diesel passenger vehicle population with 95% being gasser after 30+ years is proof positive. Indeed a greater passenger diesel population (23%) would cut back the barrels of oil, for the same number of vehicles. Now how that would "start running over TDI's" would be something you might need to explain in greater detail.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,129
    edited October 2012
    I'm in the UP of Michigan and I always forget to check premium prices. :blush: It's usually a dime a pop up in grade, so you can probably find it for $3.72.

    Ruking1, what happens if the powers that be decide to actively encourage diesel car ownership by lowering the fuel cost? Would the semi drivers get upset and protest that policy change, fearing that supply would get crimped and prices would actually go up with demand (I know, it's hard to think it could go much higher).

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    edited October 2012
    I am not sure why they would do that, when the stated aim IS ever increasing fuel prices. !! ?? As you would probably agree from the results they are doing a bang up job ! ? Another direct yet seemingly indirect taxation is for diesel prices TO go ever higher. It is a broader base tax where the so called 47% are cruelly taxed in that the taxations will be passed on through ever increasing prices in/on EVERYTHING.

    So for example, since most folks own gassers, (95% passenger vehicle fleet) Obama denied having ANY control over prices. Since it seemed to affect his poll numbers he did actually give the wink and nod and (magically) prices did come down some. Of course it was explained as "normal" adjustments. ;) :lemon: :sick:
    Indeed the system has been trying to get rid of independent truckers by making it economically impossible for them to operate. So if truck drivers "protest" they lose monies which makes it ever HARDER to do business as an independent trucker.

    Now things are pretty easy to equalize, just give tax credits for any given price, no matter what the pump price. An example would be $4.35 per gal. Just give an independent truck driver a tax credit for 2.50 per gal which would make the effective price per gal @ 1.85 . As you would agree, THAT is NOT going to happen.

    I have read an independent has to do something along the order of 100,000 to 120,000 miles per year to make a "decent living" @ 6 mpg that is up to 20,000 gals. So if they got 2.50 per gal that would be tax credits for 50,000 per year.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    "It now costs twice as much (about $45 per ton) to truck alfalfa from a Southern California farm to a dairy in California's Central Valley as it does to ship it from Long Beach to Beijing."

    THERE'S WATER IN THAT HAY

    "In 2012, the drought stricken Western United States will ship more than 50 billion gallons of water to China."

    Alfalfa is a legume; it takes a lot of water to grow it; and cows love it (or at least farmers like to feed it to them). And China, which has been dramatically building up its stock of dairy cows over the last few years, has been importing lots and lots of American alfalfa. Messrs. Culp and Glennon see more cause for worry than celebration in this U.S. export boom. A list of their concerns can be found in the opinion piece they wrote for The Wall Street Journal, "Parched in the West but Shipping Water to China, Bale by Bale."

    http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs020/1101547782913/archive/1111216012522.htm- l
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    Folks can look this up in industry specific publications, but a pretty big percentage of US refined diesel fuel is EXPORTED. Funny how that is when we are supposed to be trying to use less fuel and be less energy dependent and NOT be dependent on foreign oil !!!!!
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,129
    edited October 2012
    Yeah, but you're comparing 80,000 pound semi loads with big freighters that can haul 400,000 metric tons of deadweight. And bunker fuel is cheaper than just about anything isn't it?

    It's not just water. US may soon become world's top oil producer. (Anchorage Daily News) The article doesn't say how much of our production is getting exported. Of course, when a bunch of it leaks into what's left of the Ogallala aquifer, the hay exports will stop. :shades:

    Back to diesels, there's another new study out this week:

    Diesel fumes more polluting than gas, new California study finds (LA Times)

    "Researchers concluded that diesel exhaust is responsible for 65% to 90% of a region's vehicle-related SOA emissions, depending on the mix of traffic.

    "We can now say that, while both motor vehicle sources are important for these 'secondary' particles, diesel is responsible for a larger proportion, especially in regions such as the San Joaquin Valley with a lot of diesel use"

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    Tell me why the second study is more accurate than the first? Can't trust much coming from the over paid wonks at UC Berkeley. :shades:

    And who is to say the SOA is not from the ships in the harbors spewing 5000 PPM sulfur from bunker oil.

    As far as the sale of Alfalfa to the Chinese, will you be drinking the milk they send back to US, after our dairy farmers are bankrupted? And that is not water from the Ogalala Aquifer. It is from the Colorado river. This is Imperial Valley hay that is going to China.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-09/hay-cheaper-to-ship-to-china-than-calif- ornia-hits-dairies-freight-markets.html
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    edited October 2012
    Again this get back to what I have said in past posts about shipping bumker oil being 1. 5,000 to 25,000 ppm sulfur 2. totally no emissions mitigation !!!!

    As for the SJV. Agricultural diesel is higher ppm and AGAIN totally no emissions mitigation.

    Another which the studies do not DARE go are airports. Again large ppm sulfur AND aviation engines, AGAIN have NO emissions mitigation.

    So just for openers what do you think would happen if they shut down LA airports, shipping ports and Oakland shipping and airport and SF airport? Shut down Wash DC area airports? PLEASE !! It is a TOTAL NON ISSUE.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    They used areas where emissions have NO place to go. A tunnel and the SJV right up against the Sierras. I don't trust any of those studies that start with an agenda. Close off each end of the tunnel and see if CO kills anyone. Then you know it was RUG. And of course Steve never met a diesel he didn't love to hate.

    They could shut down all the airports and it would suit me fine. I won't fly until the TSA goons are gone along with their X-ray machines. I would rather spew pollution all across America in a BIG SUV as to let them take my rights away.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,129
    edited October 2012
    I've lived in two places where emissions had no place to go. (Los Anchorage and Boise).

    There's a reason Valley Girls talk like they do. :shades:

    (You're talking to the guy with the electric mower and weed whacker - I'm not overly fond of gassers either, but plug-ins don't have enough range or a cheap enough price tag yet).

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    It would be nice to see a comprehensive test between a VW TDI and a VW 2.0L Turbo for emissions of all types. Including the hazardous emissions when pumping RUG & PUG. There is a reason CA mandated those high priced nozzles for pumping gasoline. It can kill you just smelling the evil stuff. I love the smell of diesel in the morning.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    edited October 2012
    For whatever reasons, US emissions standards do not have truth in emissions, as they do in European market cars. Even as the US claims to be better than the European !! Perhaps the US regulators do not want folks to see how close and statistically insignificant they really are. ergo BOGUS. When you look at the European standards side by side, there are literally nothing that can be labelled statistically significant. Further when you try to correlate variables in testing for hypothesis they are contradictory @ BEST.

    So for example if one looks at PM Euro 5 standards they are EXACTLY SAME @ .005 each, gasser/diesel. CO is HALF of the petrol/gassers. Now one question along regulatory lines is CO needs to be the same for gassers (LESS like diesels?) !!! Really come on !! NOT !

    Euro ES

    US ES
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    ..."There's a reason Valley Girls talk like they do."...

    Gasser emissions?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    edited October 2012
    As long as there are more TDI/diesel choices.

    I am just fine with folks getting 28.6 mpg in a gasser, while a TDI gets 45% BETTER fuel mileage 41.5 mpg ( both 2012 VW Passat A/T)
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    edited October 2012
    Given the current prices: ULSD 4.35, RUG 4.27 that is .1493 cents per gal vs .10482 cents per mile driven: for RUG costing 42.43 % more !!

    But as said in other posts, everybody knows that (per gal) diesel prices are MUCH higher 4.35 vs 4.27 RUG :P ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They are around here (MD/DC). Diesel is still higher than premium.

    That's just wrong. We get Brent crude, though, so we're competing with Europe's strong demand for diesel. Sucks.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    edited October 2012
    Another is LSD can still be refined in the US refineries. However for passenger cars it can NOT be sold. This of course is the perfect set of economic circumstances for LSD (500 ppm to 140 CA old spec) to be exported to those countries where it is legal both to sell it and consume it. Indeed the "other than" LS Brent crude is way cheaper per barrel !!!! I don't need to tell bit ness majors the lower cost of goods all things being equal the higher the profit. Amortized over gals it does cost several cents more per gal to refine to ULSD. The refineries get a .50 cent tax credit ( per gal) to export. The other .50 cents is paid for by the consumer. It is a pretty great deal if one owns or has interest in an AMERICAN refinery. Obviously it does help the US balance of payments. The more exported the more evening out of the lopsided balance of payments.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    If you are buying Brent crude for refinement on the East Coast that is part of the problem. Brent is selling for $24 per barrel more than W TX intermediate. Which is very good crude. The East still uses a lot of Heating oil that keeps the price high as well. Heating oil (diesel) is selling at 42 cents more per gallon today. Getting ready for a cold winter. Supply and demand. Diesel is and always has been worth more than gasoline. It is all based on BTUs per gallon. If it was break even say nearly twice as much per gallon for diesel, I would still prefer owning a diesel vehicle vs a gas vehicle.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yep, I think people in New England are starting to fill up their heating oil containers. Demand is definitely seasonal.

    My brother-in-law told me he buys oil about twice a year. So he'll fill up when prices are low before winter, but he has no choice when he runs out during winter and pays an arm and a leg.

    It's hard to even calculate a break-even because around here diesel and gas prices don't move together as we might expect.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,752
    I have long since NOT lived in New England locations, but even then, there were NOT expectations that HHO and gasoline prices moved together. If anything the HHO demand drove up gasoline and diesel prices,
Sign In or Register to comment.