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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Back then gas was (almost) free.

    EPA revised and lowered the numbers, so the 2003 Prius numbers would be a lot lower today.

    As for the Passat TDI vs. TCH, head to head CR got better fuel economy in the quicker TCH. They didn't go out on a diesel-favoring highway drive, but it would be nice to see that couple try it.

    Don't take a Camry, though, take a new Avalon hybrid. Why? Because it has a bigger fuel tank, so it could actually try to beat the Passat's record, which was for total distance on one tank, not observed MPG. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited November 2012
    PS If I mention it, let me verify...

    Yeah, 2003 Prius would be rated 42/41 under today's methodology, 41 mpg EPA combined.

    Observed is 45.4 mpg (above the 42-45 max you claimed) so the truth is some where in the middle.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,934
    how about soon comparing the cruze diesel with your favorite gas-powered cruze model? early ruminations about the selected diesel engine do not seem favorable. until it's actually in a showroom i can't believe it will actually be offered...
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,043
    until it's actually in a showroom i can't believe it will actually be offered..

    It was supposed to be here by now according to early reports. Maybe they are having trouble getting it past the tough EPA/CARB RULES. Honda could not make their fine diesel engine pass muster. GM should be able to fudge being owned by the Federal Government.

    GM tight-lipped regarding diesel, next-gen Chevy Cruze

    http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/2012/08/gm_tight-lipped_regarding_dies.html
  • So, we poor Europeans gets the Cruze in gasser and diesel formats............Saloon, Hatch and Estate but the home country may not get the diesel ?

    Something seriously wrong with the world.

    Cruze The Estate
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Something seriously wrong with the world.

    Yes, that's what I thought when I saw X3 2.0d's and 2.5d's coming off the assembly line in Spartanburg, South Carolina only to be shipped to everywhere else in the world except the US. And it really got my blood boiling to hear that X5's with the M-diesel engines were only 500 feet away from where I was standing, but couldn't be acquired at any price here. :mad:

    Although I am pleased that I can pick up a new Porsche Boxster S or 911 shipped from Germany for quite a bit less (I think) than you have to pay over in Europe. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited November 2012
    It's just crazy.

    Cruze wagon is pretty handsome, and I bet they'd be discounted enough to be a lot cheaper than a TDI Jetta SW.

    How much better is the MPG in Europe? Usually it's between 20 and 40%, but I wonder if the Cruze Eco slims down that gain?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,953
    Not only only does mpg suffer add to that power and torque. I know for a fact the 2003 TDI got 2 mpg better (4%) than its US version (50mpg). Power and torque were BETTER @ 100/110 hp/177# ft to 90 hp/155.
  • Absolutely correct on the Porsche pricing front.............and similar for other marques. If I could afford new Porkers I doubt I'd be seriously concerned, but I can't so I'm utterly unconcerned. However, I think your VW pricing is very competitive vs Europe. Likewise pricing for the Honda CR-V, which is a real bummer as I believe yours are built in the same factory, (Swindon, UK), as ours. Had that discussion with a friend in TX and he was staggered to find out it was a UK-built car.

    On the plus side, of course, we do have a very fine selection of small/medium cars/engines that never see tarmac over your way. Swings and roundabouts, I guess. Doubt you'll ever see Skodas for sale as they are concentrating really hard on China, (surprise). Here in Europe they have the best reputation of any of the VW Group marques.........and they use all shared components dressed in different party frocks. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Is that due to CARB emissions or something? Must be de-tuned.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/28/la-display-confirms-diesel-mazda6-for-us/

    173 horsepower and a magical 310 pound-feet of torque

    From 2.2 liters, not bad.

    Their other SkyActiv models have headers and have focused on keeping weight in check, so those numbers sound promising.

    I test drove a CX5 with my sister, and that seems like the perfect engine for that currently underpowered vehicle.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,950
    edited November 2012
    Hmm...Mazda 5 with a hollowed out interior and a diesel...bike hauler?

    Mazda 6 wagon diesel would also be a good car, maybe not a bike hauler, roof too low.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    OMG could there actually be a car we both want? LOL

    I deemed the 5 a tad small for me, but it was the only van you could get with a manual so I did sample one.

    With the engine above it could be the ideal middle, enough power yet still plenty efficient. Good room but not big or heavy. Torque and range to please anyone.

    A SkyActiv-D Mazda5 may be good enough to replace BOTH my city and travel/weekend cars. :shades:
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,567
    Dang... that is a TALL engine! How do they fit that under the hood of a sedan? :surprise:
    2010 Subaru Forester, 2011 Ford Fiesta, 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup, 1974 Ford Pinto Wagon
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Especially one with FWD.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,950
    I'd consider something like that for a hauler. Mileage would probably be amazing too, as the vehicle itself is pretty light. Really couldn't lose.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    What next, peace in the middle east? ;)
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,043
    Only $100 more than the 2.0L Turbo Premium Gas Hog. For me a no brainer. For a street racer get the Gas Turbo.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Is the TFSI a gas hog?

    They do want premium fuel, though.

    Ford & Hyundai's turbos run OK with regular fuel.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,252
    "Diesel will be a point of differentiation for us,” Sullivan said. “We will be the only Asian company bringing a diesel to the U.S.”

    The previous Mazda6 was made in Flat Rock in a joint venture assembly plant with Ford.

    But the 2014 Mazda6 is made in Japan, and Ford is using all the capacity in Flat Rock to make the Mustang with plans to add Fusion production. "

    2014 Mazda6 to offer diesel engine, a first for a Japanese car (Detroit Free Press)

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited November 2012
    Ford & Hyundai's turbos run OK with regular fuel.

    Not sure it's still the case, but my previous experience and research seemed to show that any/most engines that ran OK with regular fuel, were NOT leading technology, higher performance, high compression engines.

    I run at about the same speed whether I eat a good breakfast or have leftover pizza. But I'm not exactly Usain Bolt. And a Ford isn't a BMW, and a Hyundai (much as they might wishfully think differently with their Genesis ad) isn't a Porsche. I don't think Ford or Hyundai have an engineering secret to take advantage of low octane gas; rather I think they don't have - or elected not to use - state of art, high compression engines that maximize performance and efficiency through the use of premium gas.

    So I'm not sure giving a manufacturer credit for having engines that burn lower octane regular gas is really a compliment. It sounds like some of my baseball teammates complimenting me at the end of last season that I'm "fast for my age". My kids jumped in with the translation that I'm not that fast, just old.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,043
    Are they saying the 2.5L is a gasser? The one being offered in the UK is a real slug. They would be better off waiting until they have both to debut. Probably another Honda diesel wannabe story. The Japanese auto makers need to hire some German engineers.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,252
    edited November 2012
    Yeah, kind of sloppily written.

    "The 2014 Mazda6, first shown at Moscow in August and then Paris in September, will be on sale in January, first with the 184-horsepower, 2.5-liter gasoline four. The 2.2-liter diesel will follow later in the year.

    It will make Mazda only the second mainstream automaker to offer a passenger diesel in the U.S. Volkswagen is the other. Diesels make up more than 20% of VW sales in the U.S."

    Diesel option announced at new Mazda6's U.S. debut (USA Today)

    I don't know if Mazda is big enough to pull off its ambitious plans in general, especially with their currency issues, but they are part of a big conglomerate that can help them out.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I disagree. It's not like Porsche is ever going to transport the masses.

    And isn't the goal a low fuel cost? If you can run 87 octane you save 10% right there.

    If we stick with your baseball analogy, here's a player batting .300 who earns half as much and helps you stay under the salary cap.

    I'm sure you can increase output with higher octane gas, just like you can in a Porsche by filling it up with racing fuel.

    Certain turbos can tolerate lower octane and are simply more flexible, so they can use a wider range of octane.

    I'd say that's better by any measure.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited November 2012
    184hp is par for that class.

    Keep in mind Mazda's SkyActiv engines have been tuned for efficiency and have been beating EPA estimates by a wide margin in the real world.

    Back to diesels, it will be very interesting to see how Asian brand buyers respond to having a diesel option in the Spring. Freaking finally!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,043
    it will be very interesting to see how Asian brand buyers respond to having a diesel option in the Spring. Freaking finally!

    We heard the same thing from Honda in 2008 and they could not pass the EPA/CARB emissions test. So no Honda diesel. And it was a great engine. Probably a big seller in the EU for them.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I wonder if Mazda would have gone this far with the displays and announcements if they weren't sure?

    Anything is possible.

    Too bad the handsome wagon won't be sold here.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,953
    edited November 2012
    In terms of the Mazda Euro & US markets sales experiences, I would say yes and no and a REAL gamble/ "crap shoot" for Mazda.

    Honda has done better than Mazda in both markets. Yet even Honda struggles in the European markets. It does better than Mazda in US markets. Yet as Gagrice has noted has yet to bring the diesel TO the US markets; despite its expertise in emissions compliance IN the US markets. Indeed in past articles I have read about Honda diesel in the European markets, it was/remains a good product and the linchpin for Honda's success in the European markets. European markets will hit some patches of very tough sales volume. That will probably effect less market share percentage name plates like Honda & Mazda disproportionately. They have certainly experienced challenges in China a stronger market than either Europe or US.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Funny thing is the things Mazda does wrong are also why I respect the company.

    They roll to the beat of their own drummer. It doesn't results in commercial success, but their cars are interesting.

    Should be no surprise that Mazda will be the first Japanese brand to bring a mainstream diesel here. They were unique when it came to rotary, Miller cycle, and tiny (1.8L) V6s as well.
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