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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,159
    edited December 2012
    I do not like to get too far ahead, especially when it comes to diesels.

    IF (actually not) I were (again) looking for a BMW X5 35D diesel, the earliest I would consider the new transmission (if indeed they do go to the 8 speed for the 2014 MY) would be the second MY (2015). Of course the opportunity would be the 2013/2014 MY's, as they probably would be the best of that generation.

    But the real trump is the smaller platform and smaller diesel engine MB MLK 250. 7 speed hybrid CVT. However, I would not want to get IT in the first MY also.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Not a big deal, I'm sure the steering had to be moved to a different location and there are different bolts or whatever.

    It's a steering recall, not a diesel recall.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,159
    Yes, that was stated from the start.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,159
    edited December 2012
    that diesels are so good, but that GASSERS are so BAD ! ?

    Sat/Sun, Dec 8-9, 2012, WSJ, Biz & Fi, pg B4:

    " GM Sweetens Discounts to Move Unsold Cars."

    In the common place "discounts " issue, aka $2,900 to 3,500 in AVERAGE (GM only) incentives:

    (this is only one example:big 3), but I had trouble wrapping my arms around this statistic.

    ..."Its unsold US inventory reached 788,194 cars and trucks or 3.5 months."... ( / 12 = 29.17% my sic) @ the end of November (2012 or 1 month till the end of the MY, my sic)

    ..."Consumers can now save as much as $4,000 on some Chevrolet Silverado's and $4,500 on GMC Sierra's according to GM's website.

    In contrast VW Group posts 394,128 sales YTD (Nov) with 12,147 est in inventory aka less than 3.1%.

    VW is beside itself pushing less than 10,000 in sales (445 units in inventory as of today= 4.45%) of ONE CUV, 2012 Touareg (9145 units YTD from 2011 MY 7535) of which 23% are projected to be TDI's, less than 2,300) stats VW T
  • Well, maybe it's just me...but I honestly find your posts painfully difficult to read.

    Part of this is the ample use and/or "misuse" of grammatical jargon, aka abbreviationalisms (my sic) and the assumption/expectation that the reader REALLY wants to go through all of this just so he/she/it can try to understand a point that could be made much more succinctly.

    Thanks.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,159
    edited December 2012
    You can't get more succinct than 29.17% vs 3.1% inventories.

    But if I just said that without back up ( documentation), then guys like you would jump all over it (like flies on...) with stuff like: BS. How did you come to that ridiculous conclusion, etc, etc. . If the explanation bores you, ignore it, but then again, the references are there.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited December 2012
    Ha!, aka: Ha-Ha! Or in the case of:

    In the common place "discounts " issue, aka $2,900 to 3,500 in AVERAGE (GM only) incentives:
    (this is only one example:big 3), but I had trouble wrapping my arms around this statistic.

    Huh? aka, Say what? If someone read that entire post verbatim, word for word, acronym for acronym, and didn't get a royal headache, they should apply to the CIA as a codebreaker.

    Sorry ruking, I always appreciate statistical back up to anecdotes, but I'm with spirit relative to the painful way that you string things together with the "aka's" and "sic's" and this/thats. But hey, I'm no English major, so post as you wish and I'll do my best to get to your point.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,159
    edited December 2012
    Then good. Here is an easy one, of 394,128 YTD 2012 VW brand sales, there are only app .0063152 of VW diesels left in US inventory.

    Perhaps the US success story of 102,561 2012 VW Passats YTD sold, only .0005752 are left in US inventory.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    So if there is only .0063146 VW diesels left in inventory, any idea where the other .9936854 of that vehicle went?

    BTW, not sure where you got your VW inventory stats, but I wouldn't count on cars.com for an accurate total. I've been shopping Porsches and I would estimate that well less than 1/2 of the dealers I checked on using Porsche's dealer locator website have their actual inventories posted on cars.com.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,159
    edited December 2012
    ..."any idea where the other .9936854 of that vehicle went? ..."

    I was hoping you could tell US !? ;) :shades:

    Porsche seems to be more like 2.53% inventory on sales of 32,091 YTD.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,159
    edited December 2012
    Evidently BMW has also done a great job of managing the sales of their diesels. Of 244,061 YTD sold, there are 480 diesels left or .00197. Again an American success story: Chattanooga, TN plant for the X5 35 model (38,723 ytd or 1.24% diesels) .

    I can't help but swag that GM probably wishes it had the same inventory % and profits problems% that VW, BMW and probably MB has with their diesels.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Of 244,061 YTD sold, there are 480 diesels left or .00197. Again an American success story: Chattanooga, TN plant for the X5 35 model

    (1) 244,061? I think you are either quoting all diesels sold worldwide - I don't think US X5d sales are anywhere near that number

    (2) It's Spartanburg South Carolina, not Chattanooga TN. But it is a great success story nonetheless. Every X3, X5 and X6 sold woldwide is assembled in Spartanburg. 4+ million square feet under roof. And on my factory tour, at least a dozen factory employees gave me the thumbs up or stopped to thank me for buying an X5. I was humbled.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,159
    edited December 2012
    No, it is the BMW US figure total sales, and folks wonder why I put in the references ? :surprise:

    I stand corrected. I am led to believe the plant in Chattanooga, TN assembles Passat ONLY and only for the US market.

    So in that sense, it is WAY different for the BMW world wide plant in Spartanburg, SC. This of course is a discussion in and of itself. I remember you have mentioned how incongruent it is to have world wide diesels built in the US factory. yet those same products in the various models are BANNED from US roads. ;) :lemon:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    GM's pickups are ancient, the V6 models in particular are struggling to compete with the Pentastar Ram and the EcoBoosted Fords.

    This is not a gassers-are-bad problem, because Ford and Ram aren't having problems moving trucks.

    This is supply and demand. Demand has dropped for the older models since competitors have newer and more modern drive trains.

    Inventory is just one tiny part of the equation. VW has not made enough diesels, but if they doubled supply tomorrow they'd had unsold ones as well, and still be nowhere near Ford F150 sales.

    Having said that, GM could do a diesel C/K 1500 to counter punch Ford and Ram's recent success.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,159
    edited December 2012
    The article didn't cover Ford's inventory issues. So if you want to do a compare and contrast, it might be useful to put out Ford's numbers.

    ..."VW has not made enough diesels,"...

    Why would anyone (in their right minds) make far too many products, they can't sell??????????????

    More PC:

    I would say that is a hypothetical problem of YOUR manufacture, not VW's.

    I think the residual diesel inventory (and sales) numbers indicate that VW and other diesel oems have made good calculations and more importantly much better EXECUTION of diesel sales. ( EXTREMELY low EOY inventory numbers and percentages)

    If I were the king and government owner of GM, I would first solve for why the HUGE miscalculations of supply over demand. IF indeed that were the issue/s.

    It isn't that GM hasn't demonstrated that it "GETS IT". To cite only one small example. The Chevrolet Corvette folks have been "getting it" for literally YEARS. While this might be considered a bit too glowing, Corvette doesn't build a car without someones' name on the order !!!!! They are not anywhere NEAR as custom as a GM truck can BE !!!!!!!

    Here is an interesting snap shot 2012 YTD (NOV) VW Passat sales 102,561. On another data base there are 59 Passat TDI's LEFT in the US inventory or .0005752 of total sales !!!! ???

    Now, I know which problem/s I would like to have if I were king and government owner..... etc.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    Having said that, GM could do a diesel C/K 1500 to counter punch Ford and Ram's recent success.

    If any of the D3 produces a 1/2ton PU with a 3.0 diesel engine they will pull sales from the other two big time. I don't think any of them have the engineering expertise to pull it off. Unless they buy technology from the Germans. Same goes for the Japanese who could make a big hit with a full sized diesel PU truck. No one has built a diesel that passes EPA/CARB rules without urea. Except VW with the 2L TDI in sedan sized vehicles. I read that same engine in a Tiguan or Q5 would require urea to pass. I guess we will see soon enough.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    If I were the king and government owner of GM, I would first solve for why the HUGE miscalculations of supply over demand.

    That is simple the King of our government does not want any layoffs in his bedchamber with the UAW. So keep production up even if it means a huge over stock. The tax payers will come through and make up the difference.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,159
    edited December 2012
    All BOW and KOW TOW !!! ;) :sick: :lemon:

    More importantly, get ready to pay more taxes ;)

    So do "WE" buy DING DONGS next?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,159
    edited December 2012
    I think it is a case of whether one shoots oneself in the foot or someone else does it,... same OUCH.

    Bottom line it is simply solved by BO, POTUS decree. Keep in mind he has gone on record saying the 20 T debt crisis is EASILY solved in less than a week. :blush: So IF it is really that easy for such a HUGE global problem...

    This is an easily solved problem. The EPA changed the rules for the hybrid with the 60 mpg C /50 mpg H bru ha ha.

    American light truck diesels work just fine under rules ( thank you very much that) the EPA has carved out for them and over multiple decades. It isn't that they are operating "illegally." On the other hand, it is hard to imagine that even in the SAME party line, American rules are made that American technology really can't pass !! ??????? Not only does the American Fed government own GM shares but so does its UNIONS. EPA is unionized!!?? I am not familiar with the board composition, but I am sure both have their designated board members.

    On an anecdotal level filling urea tanks (app 5 gals) every 12,000 to 15,000 miles is really another no brainer. Urea comes from and is MADE in dah/ the heartland ! (MIUSA????) Can anyone really imagine not having to plug in the Volt (EVERYY day in most cases) when it runs out of battery power or not refilling a RUG to PUG gasser when they need it (1.36 times 27 fills more frequent than diesel 20 fills ) ?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    With adblue as common as anti-freeze it has become a non issue for diesels.

    American light truck diesels work just fine under rules ( thank you very much that) the EPA has carved out for them and over multiple decades.

    Exactly!!! All they have to do is lower the GVW to 4000lbs for exempt diesels, and even the D3 could figure out how to make them legal. I know many contractors that buy 3/4 ton when a 1/2 ton is all they need. Just to get the advantages of diesel. Most rarely haul trailers. So it is more a matter of economy. Who really wants a wimpy V6 gas engine when you can get about the same mileage with a fire breathing Ram Cummins putting out 350 HP and 800 Ft Lbs of torque???
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think the residual diesel inventory (and sales) numbers indicate that VW and other diesel oems have made good calculations

    I disagree, I think they underestimated demand.

    Sales have grown but they're still well below the best selling hybrids, and that margin keeps growing.

    Running out of product to sell is not a good strategy. People come in and want to see a selection of colors, models, options. They don't see what they like, most walk. Few are willing to special order and wait 6-8 weeks.

    I'm not saying a huge supply like GM has, but VW fell on the way-too-short side and that's not ideal either.

    VW needs to build a higher percentage of TDI models.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,159
    edited December 2012
    Well given the GM article, they got that in literal spades, eh? . How is that working for em? ;) VW has record diesel and gasser sales and have posted greater profits even during the CRASH 2008/2009. GM is trying to fish in the fed to sell its stock at a severe loss. I could go on, but why?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,159
    edited December 2012
    You also have an interesting perspective, in that the 2013 MY starts in June/July, almost 6 months ago, with normal releases in Aug or app 4 months ago. If I were in the market for a 2012 gasser GM product, the opportunity to offer a maximum of a 1 to 2 year old used car price would be there.

    So GM will have to do a lot of selling to move its 2012 MY inventory.

    Incidentally right now there are 16,758 units of 2013 VW diesels in the US inventory of 66,428 total inventory units. While I stress this is merely a SWAG, that would put diesels % @ app 25%.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,919
    edited December 2012
    "The diesel engine for the 2014 Ford Transit van will be a five-cylinder PowerStroke model, the company announced today, extending the fuel efficiency benefits of clean-diesel powertrains into its upcoming commercial van.

    The new 3.2-liter PowerStroke Diesel will be the only five-cylinder turbodiesel sold in the U.S."

    2014 Ford Transit Van: Fuel-Efficient Diesel Option Unveiled (Fox)

    "Ford has already announced that it will also be fitted with the 3.5-liter turbocharged EcoBoost gasoline engine."

    So it'll be interesting to look at the take rake in a few years.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    They kind of copied the old MB Sprinter. Mine had a 5 cylinder diesel with 5 speed tiptronic Transmission. Wonder if they licensed that old design? MB Sprinter now has the V6 diesel.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,919
    Didn't think about the engine but it does resemble a Sprinter at that.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Slight shortage is better than severe oversupply.

    Neither is ideal, though.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited December 2012
    Cool truck, you could probably play raquet ball inside the cargo area.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,159
    edited December 2012
    Let's see, you are trying to compare scales (ratios) of 2,411 VW TDI 2012 units near FANTASY LAND to the remaining 798,000 + GM units? Too funny. Out of context, the unit ratio is 1 to 331.

    Since us US taxpayers are the bail outers and stake holders, GM et al.,should give each of us a discount for what they say we are EACH on the hook for !!! ?????

    It is simple to administer. Get the agreed upon (law) IRS tax credit/s for the year or years, the GM vehicles bought was/were put in service. Since Romney's 47% is already paying little to no taxes,... adjustments. It was easy enough to implement one of the 60,000 units or so "clean diesel IRS $1,500 tax credits", albeit changeable weekly.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Actually you were the one who first compared GM's oversupply to VW's lack of supply, not me.

    Back to diesels...
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