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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Not crazy about it being built in Mexico...even the TDIs are made there?
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,302
    Some might try to fool/tell you that point of assembly doesn't matter - could even be made in China and would be just fine :shades:

    I am pretty sure the previous Golf TDi was built there, can't see a reason this one wouldn't be. The German built Rabbit/Golf seen in NA was unexpected.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The 2014 Leaf gets a price drop, even.

    I did the math, a base model with the still-available $7500 federal tax credit and the $2000 state credit here in MD would cost me just $20,250.

    That's quite a leap of faith, though, to go full EV. It would work for my current situation, but what if my needs change? Li-ion laptop batteries last 5 years max, how will this hold up long-term?

    It is tempting, though. Here at work they have 2 charging stations and the first 100 hours of charging are free. After that it's subsidized so it costs 1/3rd my PEPCO rate at home.

    Again, tempting...would be nice to never see a gas station again.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Last time I did this shopping around (it can take me 5 years to choose BTW), it was for convertibles, and IIRC the VW convertible models were brought over from Germany.

    That was years ago, though. Some times the rare/specialty ones are only made at home.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,302
    I think the Cabrios went back and forth - some Mexico production in the 90s, specialty models like the EOS always have been built in Germany. I am certain Golfs were built in Mexico from the mid 90s onward, but I know around 07 or so, US cars were again made in Germany. Weird, which fits VW sometimes.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    Li-ion laptop batteries last 5 years max, how will this hold up long-term?

    That is the biggest question mark for me as well. I think they are warranted for 8 years or 100k miles. Degradation seems to be the biggest complaint on the Leaf. Nissan may be addressing that issue.

    http://green.autoblog.com/2012/12/27/nissan-leaf-battery-warranty-upgraded-first- -capacity-loss/
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,160
    Indeed a TDI GTG friendd got a Miata for something like 3,000. I think the only thing that beats that is closer to FREE. He loves it. That car would beat me to death around here in this commute.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2013
    9 bars out of 12...

    Imagine your car had a 12 gallon gas tank, yet it only started taking 10 gallons. They're saying that's OK? Way to aim low, Nissan.

    You can see my concern.

    Edit: my best friend's wife works for them, so I should ask if they have S plan pricing or equivalent (she did when she was at Ford).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That car would beat me to death around here in this commute

    DC roads suck and that's probably the #1 thing that has me looking elsewhere. #2 is range.

    I priced a 16" wheel and tire package, but with the TPMS it ends up costing a small fortune.

    I should find another owner who wants to trade for a 17" set.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2013
    http://www.jeepgarage.org/f73/2014-grand-cherokee-ordering-information-and-prici- - ng-52937.html#.UQBGT3kXGLc.facebook

    2. Limited 4X4 - MSRP $37,595 ($36,192) + $995 destination

    with 3.0L V6 TURBO DIESEL ENGINE (EXF) + 8-SPD AUTO 8HP70 TRANS (DFD) 22H (Late Availabilty) [MSRP $4,500 / INV. $ 4,005]


    By my math that's $43,090 for the cheapest diesel. Boo.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    We were just talking about this:

    VW plans Golf push in Americas with shift to Mexico

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130125/OEM/301259868#ixzz2J1fdicFt
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,160
    You can thank your elected and NON elected government representatives. That WSJ article speaking of $9 k or so for "compliance" costs probably wasn't too far off. You can get 3 Miatas just for the cost of (diesel) compliance. :sick: :lemon:
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    You can see my concern.

    Lithium Ion batteries have been my concern for a long time. Several burnt up Prius with the Plugin after market batteries. Sony Li-ion battery recall catching laptops on fire. I wonder how Toyota is making out with their batteries in the Plugin Prius??

    Thanks for the pricing on the Jeep GC. I figured it would be close to $50k configured nicely. $4500 over the V6 gasser is a bit much. It looks like Mercedes only dings the buyer $1900 for the diesel over the V6 gas model. The GC will have to be a mighty nice vehicle to compete with the ML350 Bluetec. They are priced very close.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2013
    Maybe Jeep will offer incentives? Fiat may have extra production if Europe's economy tanks.

    Look at all the Fiskers that burned up.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    You mean the Fiskers that caught fire in the Sandy storm?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yes, there are probably more...
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,923
    "The new racing program, supported by Mazda engineers in Japan and North America, aims to publicize a 2.2-liter turbodiesel engine that is one element of the company’s Skyactiv strategy to improve efficiency. The plan lifts a page out of the playbook that Audi has used so successfully at the 24 Hours of Le Mans: using racing to demonstrate the engine’s mettle and to increase awareness of diesel’s benefits."

    For Mazda, It’s Diesels at Daytona (NY Times)

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,160
    edited January 2013
    I tend to severely discount the "real world" racing aspect. in the case of the turbo diesel engine (actually gasser racers also), however beneficial the advertising potential. I realize it is the generations old "race on Sunday, on Monday principle. SkyActiv (gassers) has been too long in coming for Mazda. I think they are trying to fold the 2.2 L turbo diesel into that branding. The article did not state the torque nor the reliability and durability issues , but I think the MB 2.2 L turbo diesels sets a very high bar @ 369 # ft of torque.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Makes sense, fewer pit stops. That's sort of what I want.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,160
    edited January 2013
    "Makes sense, fewer pit stops. "

    VW T:

    1. TDI 27.6 mpg (using Fueleconomy.gov) = 543 gals/*= 21 yearly stops

    2. TDI 30 mpg (anecdotal real world) = 500 gals/*= 20 yearly stops

    3. Hybrid 20 mpg gasser (using Fuelly.com)= 750 gals/*= 29 yearly stops

    4. gasser 19 mpg (using Fuelly.com) = 789 gals= 31 yearly stops

    (*/26 gals (26.4 gals oem stated capacity) @ 15,000 miles per year, upper average US driver)
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,923
    edited January 2013
    Pit stops would mean a lot more to me in a race than on the road. I have to take them at least once an hour whether my car needs one or not. :shades:

    Extended fuel ranges would be nice on some of the end of the road trips we've done over the years. You could do the Haul Road nonstop (414 miles), but I'm not passing up Coldfoot in any event.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,160
    edited January 2013
    It would seem you agree with my separation of race activities vs the real world.

    IF one looks behind the numbers, given the same/same/same fuel CAPACITY (26/26.4 gals oem ratings VW T), basically the gasser HAS to stop a min of 55% (app) more than the TDI.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,688
    When it comes to durability of an engine, Mazda did the same thing with the rotory engine, they raced it won races with it, however, we all know what happened with durability of the engine.... We all know what happened with real world gas mileage too... However, Audi set the bar with the TDI race car, I believe Mazda is doing the same thing here as Audi. Diesels have been known the in past for their reliability of lasting 300K miles. Which I think is one of the avenues Mazda needs to use to sell their diesel here in the states. Another hurdle is the engine noise of a diesel engine, which has been quieted down a lot. If Mazda can so this they will have a big winner on their hands.

    BTW, has anyone seen the projected MPG of the Mazda6 with the Skyactive D engine yet?
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,923
    edited January 2013
    their reliability of lasting 300K miles

    We've been through this before and I don't recall seeing anything showing that passenger diesel engines are any more reliable than gassers. Semis yeah, but not passenger cars and trucks. Not many people drive their cars twenty years either (maybe Gagrice?) or do as many miles in a decade as Ruking appears to do. And lots of other stuff will likely die before then anyway.

    "Mazda said users can expect 43 miles per gallon highway" at the Geneva Auto Show almost two years. (thecarsreport.com)

    Not sure if that will be the same number in the States or if that quote was for the European market. Maybe someone can find something more recent.

    An Edmunds blurb last week on Mazda 6 fuel economy numbers just said "Mazda did not provide fuel economy numbers on the 2014 Mazda 6 with the Skyactiv-D 2.2-liter clean diesel engine that will debut in the second half of the year."

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • coontie66coontie66 Posts: 109
    Just wondering why VW has a measly 3yr/36K warranty if the engine will go 300,000? Even GM warranties go to 5 yrs and 100K? What about BMW and MB?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2013
    I was referring to racing, but city range is an important criteria for my fun hatch, too.

    The supercharged V6 may compare more closely to the discontinued V10 diesel. Edit: 17-19 mpg on fuelly.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2013
    Selling extended warranties is a profit center for dealers. I bet dealers lobby against long warranties.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    I think the long warranties are only handed out as a selling gimmick. Like Hyundai started and can't stop. Even the B2B extended warranties leave out a lot of stuff. Something I found out when my windshield washer tank started leaking. Cost me $258 as it was not covered. Nissan considers that a wear item for some unknown reason. You have to rip the fender off to get at it. I was not happy about that. I will ask for a detailed list of things not covered before I ever buy another extended warranty.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,160
    It is almost funny, but the list of what they DO NOT cover is LONGER than their pledge to cover EVERTHING, .... BUT (all caps BIG BUT).
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,160
    edited January 2013
    I am really not sure how to answer that question. The oldest 03 Jetta TDI I own only has 180,000 miles and (seemingly) is @ the best mpg that it has gotten. It is STILL going strong and has been almost boring. Now as I remember it only had a 4 year 60,000 miles warranty if you think that made any difference.

    On a GM car (2001), an extended warranty I purchased (first and last I will buy) paid for a computer chip blowing. The premium was more than the cost to fix the computer chip (integral to the engine and drive trans running) .

    Some one else will have to chime in for BMW and MB.
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