Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

1253254256258259473

Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2014

    @gagrice said:
    Look at the GM model line up. With maybe the exception of Buick, there are better choices across the board. GM should have been split up at bankruptcy and the models worth saving bought by other automakers.
    Pickup Trucks Ram far better and Ford somewhat better
    Luxury has many choices better than Cadillac.
    Family sedans are awash with superior cars to Chevy
    Suburban pretty much sits on top of that class of SUV. Without diesel it is a waste of natural resources.
    And it is not really a MADE IN USA nameplate anymore. Their best selling vehicles are PU trucks and they are over 50% made in Mexico.

    It was not very long ago that a primarily DEMOCRATIC state, county and local governments let the joint venture (Toyota AND GM) Fremont, CA vehicle assembly plant DIE. Perhaps it is TELLING that the TESLA @ $80,000 or so per copy is made in its SAME place (economy cars USED to be made there., Toyota Corolla's). I am sure there are the literal boat loads of tax credits and write offs to outright amnesties for the "urban renewal" of that property. I have read in passing that Tesla makes a minimum of $36,000 per unit on MSRP's to $95,000.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    @ruking1 said:
    It was not very long ago that a primarily DEMOCRATIC state, county and local governments let the joint venture (Toyota AND GM) Fremont, CA vehicle assembly plant DIE. Perhaps it is TELLING that the TESLA @ $80,000 or so per copy is made in its SAME place. I am sure there are the literal boat loads of tax credits and write offs to outright amnesties for the "urban renewal" of that property.

    I am reading articles that claim Tesla will transition out of CA and the current Fremont facility? Looks like Toyota is giving up AGAIN on the RAV4-EV. Tesla will die without subsidies. Leaving that facility empty again.

    Though Tesla’s (NASDAQ:TSLA) Model S sedan is the part of its business that garners the brightest spotlight, the company also produces the drivetrains for a handful of other vehicles that drive under different nameplates. That that list just got a bit shorter, though, as Tesla revealed that it would no longer be supplying the powertrains for Toyota’s (NYSE:TM) electric RAV4 EV. Toyota is a 2.4 percent stakeholder in Tesla.

    “Toyota is expected to end the current RAV4 EV model this year,” Tesla in a quarterly filing late last week. The supply contract has so far generated $15.1 million worth of revenue for Tesla in the quarter that ended at the end of March, but the company’s “production activities under this program are expected to end in 2014.”

    http://wallstcheatsheet.com/automobiles/tesla-and-toyotas-electric-rav4-break-up-no-reason-yet-given.html/?a=viewall

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2014

    The RAV4 EV sold squat.

    One thing about all the GM recalls, it takes people's eyes off the Ford one a week or three ago (some 700,000 models for that one).

    Fun across the pond:

    Boris urges tax penalties for all diesel drivers (telegraph.co.uk)

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2014

    Too funny, it would be hard not to conclude that manufacturing here (there) is not sustainable even with those super high profit levels !!! ???? The property is fairly big (my eyeballs show me 375 acres). So once Tesla moves out, it will probably sit fallow for upwards of 20 years as the wrangling goes on as to what to do with the property, buy sell trade bankruptcies, zoning, rezoning, etc. . It is currently zoned industrial. The surrounding area already looks like a mini Detroit.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072

    Ah Britainistan politicos - they make those in the USA look downright intelligent. Nice alarming pic too, I'd wager that old Peugeot is a gasoline car - diesels don't usually smoke in that colo(u)r. More eco-weenie reactionism spurred on by the freaky weather pattern in France that created a smog storm, maybe? If you want to clean up diesel issues, target poorly maintained commercial vehicles.

    @stever said:
    Fun across the pond"

    Boris urges tax penalties for all diesel drivers (telegraph.co.uk)

  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098

    @ruking1 said:
    Yes it was and so were my responses. That being true, it was very clear why you either did not answer my questions and/or ignored then, nor addressed the follow up Gerdes/Taylor's scenarios.

    I didn't realize anything needed answers. I'm always impressed with Wayne's numbers in all of his tests, but didn't think that needed any comments either.

  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098

    @stever said:
    The RAV4 EV sold squat.

    One thing about all the GM recalls, it takes people's eyes off the Ford one a week or three ago (some 700,000 models for that one).

    Fun across the pond"

    Boris urges tax penalties for all diesel drivers (telegraph.co.uk)

    Do those Euro diesels use the adblue to reduce NOX?

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2014

    Good question - they have their own emissions standards over there, Euro 5 or something. No telling how they tweak stuff to meet the regs.

    Ah, yep, here's how to find AdBlue in the EU. UK anyway.

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826

    28 mpg C/ 45 mpg H EPA for the MB E

    Interesting that MB has put the 2.1 L TTDI 190 hp/369 # ft of torque 7 speed A/T in place of the 3.0 L TDI.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    If automakers just listened to the marketplace, they'd pull out of EVs and most hybrids. Most alternative vehicles don't sell well anywhere in the world, even in places with double the fuel prices of the USA and with higher government subsidies than we offer here.

    Exception of course is Prius, which latched on brilliantly to "feel good marketing" (and the first to do so). But apparently Toyota has a niche that has very little extra room for visitors.

    Perhaps this realization will encourage development of even more efficient and ever-cleaner diesel cars. We may be seeing the beginning of a diesel "golden age", because these new diesel cars are pretty much beating up the hybrids and EVs.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited May 2014

    @stever said:
    The RAV4 EV sold squat.

    Boris urges tax penalties for all diesel drivers (telegraph.co.uk)

    Then tax the hybrids and the EVs for not contributing their fair share to maintaining the roads. It never ends what politicians can come up with to rob the middle classes.

    PS
    And don't forget the bike riders that are the biggest road leeches of ALL.

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 239,555

    @gagrice said:
    Then tax the hybrids and the EVs for not contributing their fair share to maintaining the roads. It never ends what politicians can come up with to rob the middle classes.
    And don't forget the bike riders that are the biggest road leeches of ALL.

    I think Oregon is moving to a per-mile tax rather than a gas tax for all vehicles.

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    Perhaps this realization will encourage development of even more efficient and ever-cleaner gasoline cars. We may be seeing the beginning of a gasoline "golden age", because these new gasoline cars are pretty much beating up the hybrids and EVs.

    For example, the Mazda CX-5 gets 35 on the highway. Why get a Prius V if you're only going to get 5 mpg more?

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 239,555

    @stever said:
    For example, the Mazda CX-5 gets 35 on the highway. Why get a Prius V if you're only going to get 5 mpg more?

    I think the only model CX-5 that gets 35MPG is the base trim level with manual transmission. Which probably accounts for < 5% of all sales.

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2014

    So you get the Grand Touring FWD at 25/32 - that's the one we recently drove. It's not a Prius V. In a lot of ways. :)

    Or you could get a Toyota Corolla with 29/38.

    Bottom line is that gas ICErs aren't napping either.

  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098

    @stever said:
    So you get the Grand Touring FWD at 25/32 - that's the one we recently drove. It's not a Prius V. In a lot of ways. :)

    Or you could get a Toyota Corolla with 29/38.

    Bottom line is that gas ICErs aren't napping either.

    But many drivers are primarily urban, where the MPG comparison is not even close.

  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    edited May 2014

    @Michaell said:
    I think Oregon is moving to a per-mile tax rather than a gas tax for all vehicles.

    I have no problem with this so long as they don't attempt to automate it - which would be a privacy concern. They should simply require an odometer check at the smog station or yearly inspection.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    Ya, that's hybrid territory for sure. Right now anyway.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    We are IN the golden age of the gasoline engine. That's one reason why most hybrids and EVs are a flop. And since most diesels can usually top most gassers pound for pound, across all driving conditions and model lines (not just cherrypicking one exceptional gasser driven in one exceptional way), then it seems to make sense to anticipate that diesels will be developing technologically along with the gasoline engine.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2014

    The gasser has a bit of a head start. Anyone know the penetration of non-gas passenger vehicles getting sold? 2%? Maybe 5%?

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,495
    edited May 2014

    Exception of course is Prius, which latched on brilliantly to "feel good marketing" (and the first to do so).

    Which is why I always refer to one as a Pious. Anyone driving one is clearly superior to all the great unwashed, including me by the way.

    Seems to work.

    PT Barnum was the man.

    The environmental impact of producing and disposing of these huge batteries still needs to be explained to me (use short words and sentences) in a fashion that explains how the life-cycle carbon footprint of a Pious is less than that of, say, a VW diesel.

    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Ah, now you're getting into "long term thinking" which most Americans generally suck at.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    If you want to be green, you'll avoid driving as much as possible in the first place. Driving an EV in W. Virginia pretty much guarantees that you're recharging it with coal. Better to own one in Idaho where hydro rules. I don't know that mining lithium is much different from a carbon standpoint than getting iron ore out of the ground.

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2014

    @ruking1 said:
    28 mpg C/ 45 mpg H EPA for the MB E

    Interesting that MB has put the 2.1 L TTDI 190 hp/369 # ft of torque 7 speed A/T in place of the 3.0 L TDI.

    I am not sure why the site is eating the letters, but I am sure I put in E 250 (MB).

    The way I am reading it is it is still the E class, but the E350 designation was previously for the 3.0 L TDI. So as I think the logic goes, the E 250 BT is to drill down on or highlight the change from 3.0 : TDI to 2.1 L TTDI.

    The so called 4 motion on the MB GLK 250 B/T does have penalties. (H EPA of 33 vs 45) I am still getting the word picture on the differences of .9 L more, an extra turbo and an extra A/T gear not to mention smaller and 700_ #'s less and app 16% to 20% better fuel mileage (than Touareg TDI). The VW T TDI is more yippee yahoo !!! (being technical terms). The MB GLK 250 B/T is more freight train and business like.

    Fuelly.com shows 2 GLK 350's (gasser) getting 20.5 mpg. 11 GLK 250 B/T's (T T DI) posting 30 mpg or 46.3% better. The SOS/DD R/T trek posted 37 mpg. With a lot of non SOS/DD miles.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    @stevedebi said:
    I have no problem with this so long as they don't attempt to automate it - which would be a privacy concern. They should simply require an odometer check at the smog station or yearly inspection.

    I'm with you. The Oregon GPS that talks to the gas pump is just a bit too much Big Brother for my taste. But then Urban Oregonians LOVE BIG BROTHER HIGH TECH Solutions. Yearly Odo reading & billing the mileage with your license would just be too easy for them to comprehend. Look for CA to follow with the GPS mileage tax and gas tax to generate more revenue.

  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209

    NYC CAR DUDE, go for the DIESEL CRUZE!
    Its black graphite paint color is nice and accumulates dirt relatively unobtrusively.
    btw, i have put about a half million miles on 4 VW diesels, earlier-gen models jetta+passat+beetle, and currently have driven ~70k leadfoot miles with stickshift/cruze LS (32mpg overall now).

    I say try the cruze diesel if you are ok with automatic transmission (ew) and if you don't need cavernous back seat. Back seat is fine for medium-sized biological entities, but if one chauffeurs larger ones, one would surely have to select Passat.

    Here's some additional reasoning.
    Aside from Cruze, if you don't need wagon form-factor, and don't need to park in tight spots much, definitely select passat over jetta. (Wouldn't passat be way harder to park in city?)

    On the subject where Prius people and diesel car people agree, a per-mile tax:
    1. California govt is apparently slower to do the math than oregon govt, but CA will want it too.
    2. It will be fun to see how people subvert a per-mile driving tax.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,359

    @‌elias

    So my 1st question (not diesel related, but would apply to the diesel Cruz) is: How is it holding up after 70K miles? Have you had any major issues or minor nagging problems with your Cruz?

    I used to own a 2010 Nighthawk Black Pearl Acura TSX. Keeping it clean was not easy, especially since I work 6 days a week, have a house, & 3 kids (car washing goes to the VERY bottom of the list). I won't say never because that's a long time, but if the price is right (Labor Day Rebates + Employee pricing + 0% financing or an insanely cheap lease) I'd go for another black car.

    Right now my plan is to turn in my BMW, drive my wife's Pilot and my Prelude, then lease something (to buy eventually) for my wife to drive. Automatic is pretty much a requirement because I cannot justify So most of the time it will be either just me, just my wife, my wife and our daughter (currently 2 1/2), or my wife and our 2 sons (7 1/2 & 5) who sit in booster seats. If she ever needs to take all 3 kids somewhere, obviously I'll leave her the Pilot.

    A diesel appeals to me long term because if we like whatever car we lease next, I'll have a nice used car to buy out after the lease is up if I like it. I currently drive over 20,000 miles per year.

    I've definitely got some test driving to do before I make a decision. Thanks for your input.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    @elias said:

    On the subject where Prius people and diesel car people agree, a per-mile tax:

    1. California govt is apparently slower to do the math than oregon govt, but CA will want it too.
    2. It will be fun to see how people subvert a per-mile driving tax.

    It looks like right now it is a voluntary program in Oregon. Why anyone would volunteer is beyond reason. The only people that would benefit are those getting less than 20 MPG. With my Nissan Frontier getting 17 MPG I would be paying about 26 cents per gallon mileage tax. Still have to pay the 18.4 cents to the Feds. If you get 40 MPG like most diesel sedans you would be paying 60 cents in mileage tax vs the current 30 cents. Am I missing something? Is Oregon actually giving gas hogs a big break?

    http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/oregon-phases-in-countrys-first-ever-pay-per-mile-program-vmt-tax

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2014

    @gagrice said:

    We already pay too much !!!!! That being said.....

    LOL, there is always the concept of unintended consequences. Given the subject of the per mile tax, I am thinking now of keeping my 19/21 year old TLC's past the 25 year old mark. The funny part is the Toyota service advisor that over sees the cars agrees.

    Most normal people already suspect gas prices are a regressive and defacto tax. They even have started to see that the GOVERNMENTS make more from oil than the oil companies do!!! Even if they don't and flunked the GED, the concept that if you spend more for gas you have less monies in the pockets for other stuff like recreational drugs, hits em in the pocketbook. :D

    They already know that CA legislators use the money for roads for almost any else BUT roads. So why would they think all of a sudden things will change with a STATED and higher per mile fuel price and tax, which supposedly will NOW pay for better roads !! ???????? Keep in mind the system was the one to push for higher fuel prices and better mpg. YET all of a sudden it is a bad thing because it fully exposes they are fraudulently using road tax monies for anything else but roads.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States

    ..."Fuelly.com shows 2 GLK 350's (gasser) getting 20.5 mpg. 11 GLK 250 B/T's (T T DI) posting 30 mpg or 46.3% better. The SOS/DD R/T trek posted 37 mpg. With a lot of non SOS/DD miles."...

    So given CA fuel taxes of per gal .71 gasoline/.74, diesel (clearly .03 cents more) the above example pays respectively .0346 cents/.0247/.02 cents per mile driven. We all know of course what most folks have chosen (95% of the passenger vehicle fleet) .

  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209

    @nyc-car-guy:

    2011 chevy-cruze is holding up fine.

    • thermostat housing hairline crack caused rare coolant smell around 50k.
    • local gmc dealer put another set of factory tires on it around 50k.
    • inside door handle cover/plastic broke, plastic stuff tearing off (i just don't care, never mentioned it to dealer, they would have gladly fixed it.).
    • also it was an early-production 2011 model and was recalled early to inspect for multiple possible factory defects (including missing welds) but it did not need any welds done/redone and left me impressed with the dealer service dept.

    sincerely,

    boston

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2014

    @elias said:
    nyc-car-guy:

    2011 chevy-cruze is holding up fine.

    • thermostat housing hairline crack caused rare coolant smell around 50k.
    • local gmc dealer put another set of factory tires on it around 50k.
    • inside door handle cover/plastic broke, plastic stuff tearing off (i just don't care, never mentioned it to dealer, they would have gladly fixed it.).
    • also it was an early-production 2011 model and was recalled early to inspect for multiple possible factory defects (including missing welds) but it did not need any welds done/redone and left me impressed with the dealer service dept.

    sincerely,

    boston

    In a manner of speaking, the real issue is all of these types of small things were/are covered under warranty. Glad you are happy with a GM diesel. That engine size (etc. seems to be the proverbial work horse.

  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209

    Yes, all warranty covered and no inconvenience, happened to line up with oil change anyway.
    I might try a cruze diesel next time but i might select another gas model at $10k less than the diesel - especially now since the base gas model is offered with cruise-control.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,359

    @‌elias

    Glad you are happy with your Cruze. Thanks again for the info:) I read some owner reviews here on edmunds & everybody seems to gush about their Cruze Diesel.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2014

    @elias said:
    Yes, all warranty covered and no inconvenience, happened to line up with oil change anyway.
    I might try a cruse diesel next time but i might select another gas model at $10k less than the diesel - especially now since the base gas model is offered with cruise-control.

    It has been obvious for a while that there have been, are remains very few "CHEAP/er" cars that have a diesel, let alone diesels option/s. VW has periodically offered so called "value" cars that happened to have the diesel option. The additional difficulty is normally it requires a targeted market share to hit or exceed the numbers.

    So for example the TDI Jetta 03 was fully 4% (9,000 TDI units) of VW's total production for that year. Of that, it is still an unknown what the value TDI, aka GL model total sales were. (somewhat/thing less than 9,000 units, obviously) If you were VW, would you rather sell a higher profit TDI or a lower profit TDI? @ that time the TDI premium over the 1.8 TT gasser was $236.

    So while the 03 TDI's have achieved "ICONIC" status and almost from the release, 11 years ago, outside of diesel types, that might be almost totally insignificant.

    Another example might be the 2.1 L MB T TDI, which are available in both the E250 and GLK 250. MSRP's are almost wildly divergent ($min of 12.4k) for the "common" T TDI engine. Another "weirdness" here is the 4 motion drive (on the cheaper vehicle) is technically more costly, BUT with the lower MSRP. The mpg (penalty, defacto) is plastered up front. (EPA H of 33 vs 45 mpg)

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2014

    ..."VW's usual "take" rate for the TDI — VW's name for the diesel — is about 23%,"...

    Interesting marketing slant on the 14 VW Passat TDI.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/healey/2014/05/24/vw-passat-diesel-elegant-mileage-champ/9465613/

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    53 mpg in the real world! That's pretty impressive. (definition: "real world" means no hypermiling, coasting, special tires, lightening of the car, etc).

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2014

    I have always liked the "no brainer" aspects of the TDI. Adopters are starting to understand the TDI's torque curves many driving advantages. So for example, maximum torque comes on @ much lower rpm and falls off @ lower rpm i.e..e MB GLK 1600 rpm, much over 3,000 yields no more torque with max HP @ 3,800 rpm, red line @ 4,200 rpm. (most folks eyes will glaze over at this TMI data and even for gasser models.)

    Indeed if one takes the time to understand how the diesel should operate IN the real world and stop forcing/comparing it to behave like a gasser, gasser-hybrid and/or both; and probably more importantly able to EXECUTE, one can pretty much post greatly extended mpg RANGES ( over gassers gasser hybrids, which is what Gerdes has demonstrated with gassers and gasser hybrids). Or NOT.... !!! (which is a portion I like) One spin off is the diesel is actually made to be driven slightly to more aggressively than the gasser/gasser hybrid. (Yes I can also do the nervous filly high rev Honda ADD also)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    @Mr_Shiftright said:
    53 mpg in the real world! That's pretty impressive. (definition: "real world" means no hypermiling, coasting, special tires, lightening of the car, etc).

    I spent 4 hours going 193 miles to Simi Valley via 405 and 3 hours and 20 minutes coming home via Interstate 5 and 182 miles. Most of the trip both ways included lots of 70+ MPH with slowing to 20 or less MPH. Speed up slow down crap. I filled after they did my 10k mile service with 565 miles on the tank and the calculated average was 26.3 MPG. Computer said 28.1 MPG. That was on cheapo no name diesel. Anxious to head East and try to break into the 30+ MPG range. I just cannot plug along at 65-70 when traffic is going 75-80 MPH.

  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516

    As predicted, diesel is down at mid-range unleaded... could slip below it between now and July 4th weekend. My nearby Hess station of choice:

    87 - $3.449

    89 - $3.689

    93 - $3.839

    D2 - $3.699

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2014

    Didn't I read that Hess stations were going away?

    Diesel is still $3.99 in town here, just like it's been for the last six months.

    Oh, a Jeep diesel owner is looking for advice.

  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516

    Current plan is to spin off the retail operations to a separate company, still using the Hess name and logos.

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2014

    Slow diesel news day this Memorial Day weekend.

    $3.99 D2

    $3.89 RUG

    $4.09 PUG

    No real traffic or drama on the way up on the SOS/DD trek (420 miles R/T normally). Posted a 32 mpg on the upgrade leg (lots of stop and go and high desert side trips) . Mercifully both legs (seemingly) accident less.

    I am not sure about what to make on the downgrade leg, as there were more than a few delays due to road construction and the disturbances that normally causes. We even took a few side trips that we don't normally take in our states' capital, during the work day. However, we posted 40.2 mpg for the down grade leg (275 miles). 49.6 mpg was captured on the computer screen in the mountains and for 100 miles. This was done on 19 in tires and the dreaded run flats to boot. A/C was blasting, as ambient temp were between 81 and 96 degrees.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    @ruking1 said:

    No real traffic or drama on the way up on the SOS/DD trek (420 miles R/T normally). Posted a 32 mpg on the upgrade leg (lots of stop and go and high desert side trips) . Mercifully both legs (seemingly) accident less.

    I am not sure about what to make on the downgrade leg, as there were more than a few delays due to road construction and the disturbances that normally causes. We even took a few side trips that we don't normally take in our states' capital, during the work day. However, we posted 40.2 mpg for the down grade leg (275 miles). 49.6 mpg was captured on the computer screen in the mountains and for 100 miles. This was done on 19 in tires and the dreaded run flats to boot. A/C was blasting, as ambient temp were between 81 and 96 degrees.

    What vehicle were you driving?

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826

    I was driving the 14 MB GLK 250, 2.1 L T TDI.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    "The magazine said the Chrysler Group LLC SUV tied with the diesel-powered Volkswagen Touareg TDI as the most efficient non-hybrid midsized SUV" — averaging 24 mpg — 6 mpg better than the gasoline version of the Jeep Grand Cherokee."

    Consumer Reports pans Subaru hybrid, praises diesel Jeep (Detroit News)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited May 2014

    @ruking1 said:
    I was driving the 14 MB GLK 250, 2.1 L T TDI.

    That is what I expected. That would be a bit more than expected for the Touareg TDI.
    Did you buy one or still getting the dealer to let you test drive? Your overall opinion of the vehicle?
    Is it comparable to the T-Reg, comfort, handling, etc etc??

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited May 2014

    @gagrice said:
    Is it comparable to the T-Reg, comfort, handling, etc etc??

    Indeed mileage seems better (across the boards) on the MB GLK 250 B/T.

    Kudo's to the local Mercedes Benz dealership! They are (just so happens to be) a dealer that is mentioned on Edmunds.com, when one is getting more serious, want a local test ride and/or is directed to a dealer by area code. They let us put the test mileage on much more loaded ones (over time, they didn't have a lot of GLK 250 B/T inventory). . After pretty extensive test drives and rides, we bought the less loaded one. To me, it is hard NOT to be impressed with their levels of service/s

    In that procedure, we got to see if the drivers would take to the various upgrades, etc. (old school, age differences, gadget type techies vs less so, etc). Learning on almost everything was TMI. While a lot was pretty intuitive, consultation/s with the applicable sections in the various oem MB manuals was/were almost a must/s, to see if what we were doing was correct, what the real procedure was or what was buried/layered in various decisions trees, that might have been glossed over. This was tempered a bit by the fact a lot of meetings are conducted during commute times (due to time zone differences, etc).

    Overall,(and 20/20 hindsight) I REALLY like the package!

    If this was my first CUV and/or first diesel, would I chose this? Coin toss to Touareg TDI favored. (still) They are different animals. I guess the best way to say it : when I am driving the GLK 250 B/T, there are some issues that I am thinking I like driving the Touareg and vice versa.

    It is a smaller and for a CUV a very agile product. My sense is for short trips for 4 normal sized adults, everyone "sucks it up" a bit. For longer trips, 3 adults seems more the "ideal" level.

    For us, I think it will pass the STATE chain control types, when winter sets in. 4 folks for winter sports? Ah, .... no ! Most of the stuff would have to be hung outside.

    Truthfully, I think it would have been far easier (on many levels) to get another Touareg TDI.

    The (2.1 L )T TDI engine and drive train (7 speed A/T) are a real hoot !! It is (like the Touareg TDI) "mountain goat like" in the mountains !!!! This one has so called "paddle shifters, " if one is so inclined.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    "In significant ways, the diesel market in the US is similar to that of the UK three decades ago.

    In the UK of the 1980s, diesel drivers were outcasts. They were required to fill up around the back of the station, over by the truckers, to be looked upon by gasoline burners with a mixture of pity and smugness. And that presumed diesel drivers could even find somewhere to fill up, as not every filling station bothered to stock their fuel."

    Why do Americans not drive diesels? (BBC)

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited May 2014

    Good article but it leaves out another discouraging factor in trying to figure out the US market for diesels---the horrific early diesel cars produced in this country. Perhaps the UK was used to "edgy cars" in the 1980s that might or might not get you to your destination ("carry on regardless !!) but Americans were not at all pleased with the performance of 1980s diesel cars. Even the diesel imports of the day left a lot to be desired. Even Mercedes, with their acceptable turbo diesels, could only entice a few percent of Benz loyalists to go over to the dark side.

    Question is: Does this ancient diesel nightmare really still linger in the American consciousness?

  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098

    @stever said:
    "In significant ways, the diesel market in the US is similar to that of the UK three decades ago.

    In the UK of the 1980s, diesel drivers were outcasts. They were required to fill up around the back of the station, over by the truckers, to be looked upon by gasoline burners with a mixture of pity and smugness. And that presumed diesel drivers could even find somewhere to fill up, as not every filling station bothered to stock their fuel."

    Why do Americans not drive diesels? (BBC)

    They miss the boat on the adblue additives required for most diesels over here. The cost is around 12 bucks per 10K miles or so. The stuff is available at auto parts stores.

This discussion has been closed.