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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,176
    I cannot imagine anyone cross shopping a CRV to a Touareg. The CRVs are a couple comfort levels below a Ford Escape. The CRVs seem popular with the over 80 granny set.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,687
    I may be ten years behind you on the house-building, but I'm right there with you in spirit. I'll not say "never," but I don't foresee the day I spend that kind of money on a car. :sick:
    2010 Subaru Forester, 2011 Ford Fiesta, 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup, 1974 Ford Pinto Wagon
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    edited April 2013
    ..."but I don't foresee the day I spend that kind of money on a car. "...

    Nor would I ! ;)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,357
    edited April 2013
    Just move to Seattle, work in the city or eastside, and be single. No way you'll ever be able to afford a detached house within a reasonable commuting distance to employment centers, unless you are a doctor/lawyer or receive parental coddling, so then cars become more attractive.

    Besides, for cars in that 50K+ range, leasing these days might be the best way to go, when longterm resale is low and the leases are often less than simple real world depreciation.

    Speaking of diesels, took a drive today that involved all kinds of roads from stop and go city hell to freeway cruising - 33.7mpg per the car. Not shabby.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    edited April 2013
    Indeed. But insofar as the vehicles, it is about total cost per mile driven.

    So in my anecdotal scenario , @ $4.09 ULSD per gal/32.5 mpg= .126 cents per mile driven: fuel.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    edited April 2013
    I cannot imagine anyone cross shopping a CRV to a Touareg.

    I wasn't..it just happened to be what I own, outta necessity.

    The CRVs are a couple comfort levels below a Ford Escape.

    Uhhh, wrong.

    The CRVs seem popular with the over 80 granny set.

    Oh, I get it, 70% of your post was meant to insult me. Ok, mission accomplished... if it makes ya feel better.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    Perhaps the newer ones..but not if you drove around with a load or tow a trailer always or regular habit was fairly aggressive. Gas simply can't compete when work is being done.

    As it is, the last 2 generations (07 to present) supposedly get better MPG than my 05. Plus I have a stick and their final drive gearing is considerably lower (apprx 1100 revs at 75 or so) than the autos which is all you can get since 06. The main2 perks is that is actually quite quick for a CRV and will out handle the autos. I could tie gagrice's pre 2013 Escape in absolute knots in any race he chooses. And also out corner him in any twisties he chooses.. And enjoy a lot longer life for fewer $ and fewer hassles along the way. Mind you I am speaking for my generation. Since then Honda made a lot of cheaper choices..suspension, chassis rigidity etc so my comments are about pre 07.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,176
    Oh, I get it, 70% of your post was meant to insult me. Ok, mission accomplished... if it makes ya feel better.

    Not at all. Two ladies in our church both bought new CRVs in the last year. One is 80 the other 85. I rode in the one and compared to my BILs Escape it was noisy and rough riding. Both little old ladies love them. So that is what counts. I hate the idea of spending $55k for a vehicle. But I don't see myself at 70 suffering in an uncomfortable vehicle so my kids can buy a $55k vehicle when I kick off.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,456
    Sure the diesel will tow better.

    Escape is a gas hog. New one is supposed to handle well, but I doubt it rides better than a CRV. Might be quieter though.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,176
    edited April 2013
    After riding in both they would not be for me anyway. If you are going to plunk down $30k cash for a CUV, why not dig deeper and get some real luxury for your money. Can't take it with you. I would like something smaller than my Sequoia. But not as small as the Escape or CRV. I want at least 30 MPG on highway and would be happier with 40 MPG like with the GLK250 Bluetec. Problem with the GLK is I am back down to CRV size. My choices are down to the ML350 BLuetec, Jeep GC diesel with the Touareg TDI possible. I will get serious over the next 12 months before the 7 year warranty is up on the Sequoia.

    PS
    There is a lot I like about the X5 diesel. Great power, handling and local dealer. The hard seats and Apple electronics leave me cold.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 46,003
    Ultimately it is a product like any other, and the consumer will ask:

    How much does it cost?
    Is it easy to get some?

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    edited April 2013
    In a very real sense, that is really the whole point !!!! The energy (narrative) fiasco and its geo political machinations (gee, I sound like the Rev Jesse Jackson here) have been a complete and utter sham. Truly in light of the fact that JUST the CENTRAL CA oil fields have literally been BIGGER than the whole middle east output and for literally generations is more than adequate evidence.

    Another that seems to be lost on the USA is that Europe has HUGELY embraced the "GREEN" energy generation and is now deep in the throes of financial CRISIS !!! Got to love this brave new world !! :surprise: ?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 46,003
    Well Europe does far better longterm planning than we do. They are investing in the future and I think it will pay off for them in the long run. Americans don't think that way so much. Germany isn't in a financial crisis. They are Europe's powerhouse. And Scandanavia is doing pretty well, too. (albeit Norway is sitting on plenty of oil).

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    edited April 2013
    Yes, I am VERY impressed !! But then as you imply, they might be going through the Jack Nicholson (Joker character) " omelete making" phase.

    We, of course might well see (policy point of view) the always there oil/natural gas/ coal richness as the new (BLACK) WORLD GOLD standard (nuclear also if it comes back in favor in the next 50 years) . We have it in figurative, literal and overwhelming spades !! So we are enforcing a "scary" movie phase !!

    One spin off question might be would one rather sell it for a HIGHER or lower price/profit?

    To think that one can literally set up shop in close proximity to what algae needs to convert its raw materials to a gal of R 100, simply contradicts the scarcity narrative. It "drills holes " in the old model of having to drill a lot of empty holes in the ground and in the sea, in places one would rather not BE.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,357
    Hell, you can get a 240 month loan on an RV. Maybe car loans need to be renamed "mortgages".

    By 94 months, many cars have depreciated horribly. Might make leasing at half the loan price look more attractive.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,990
    edited April 2013
    you can get a 240 month loan on an RV.

    Make sure it's a "diesel pusher". And I'm not talking about Ruking1 or Gagrice. :shades:

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,176
    I think it is another bubble in the making. 5 years into the loan you realize the car is NOT worth what you still owe and dump it into another vehicle that they tack onto a new 97 month loan and very soon you are in a big mess along with millions of other suckers.

    In the final quarter of 2012, the average term of a new car note stretched out to 65 months, the longest ever, according to Experian Information Solutions Inc. Experian said that 17% of all new car loans in the past quarter were between 73 and 84 months and there were even a few as long as 97 months. Four years ago, only 11% of loans fell into this category.

    Such long term loans can present consumers and lenders with heightened risk. With a six- or seven-year loan, it takes car-buyers longer to reach the point where they owe less on the car than it is worth. Having “negative equity” or being “upside down” in a car makes it harder to trade or sell the vehicle if the owner can’t make payments.


    If a borrower needs an interest-only adjustable-rate mortgage to get into a house, they almost certainly shouldn’t get the house. If a car buyer needs an eight-year payment plan to pay off a new car, they probably shouldn’t get a new car. That lenders are financing these deals is not a good sign.

    That consumers need them is a worse one.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,683
    not really any different than leasing car after car. Except after 7 years you own something.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    edited April 2013
    I just got back from a dark night return trip through the South Lake Tahoe Mountains. Anyone can google the route (Highway 50) 7,377 ft (highest road pass ) to sea level Tahoe being @ 6,225 ft elevation. Since I have done this any number of times, this latest fill is consistent with others and not an outlier or fluke. This time it was a R/T fill for 32 mpg. I was nearly alone on the roads up (morning after commute traffics) and back. 8 pm or so) It was literally a gorgeous day for a drive.

    Highway 50 Wiki
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,176
    It looks like you made a good choice for the sort of driving you do a lot of. This head 2 head between the 2014 Jeep GC diesel and the Touareg TDI points out the better highway handling of the Touareg. What he does not mention is the fact that you can get the diesel in the less expensive Sport model of the Touareg for about $10k less than you can buy the JGC diesel Summit.

    In one of its latest video sessions, MotorTrend has pitted the 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit 4x4 EcoDiesel (rated for 240 hp and 420 lb-ft), to give its full name, against one of its rivals, the Volkswagen Touareg, featuring a three-liter diesel, with very similar power and torque figures.

    The vehicles are put through their paces on a variety of road surfaces, and their off-road capability, maneuverability and engines are evaluated, along with all the other usual tests (ride, interior quality, looks and value).


    http://www.carscoops.com/2013/04/mt-pits-all-new-2014-jeep-grand.html
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    edited April 2013
    VW Touareg 10 th BD

    Thank you. The other truth is it is a HOOT to drive (for a CUV). The 32 mpg (vs 20 mpg on Acura MDX, same trip) is merely icing on the cake. The truth again is I suspect the VW Touareg gasser and certainly the MDX is also fun to drive as are others in this segment. Not too bad for a 10 year old design EH? ;) It also meets the State's chain control regulations driving in the mountains during inclement weather.

    If I were a Chysler TDI buyer, I would ask why is this TDI product only "SLIGHTLY" ahead after a 10-15 year FREE look at the market segment ??? Having asked that, I am sure it is an exciting new product offering !! (albeit, pricey) :shades:

    I did indeed chose the "SPORT" version. In light of the diesel's drive train (TDI engine, 8 speed A/T, and suspension, there is precious little I wanted and still want and willing to pay for in the LUX and EXEC versions. Would I take either given the same price as the SPORT? Ah ....Maybe.... In fact, I am led to believe in reading other Touareg threads, I have dodged a few bullets by getting the Sport instead of either the Lux or Exec versions.

    Not to stir the pot and I fully understand (dressing in flame suit now) that Porsche and/or Audi purists are LOATHED to admit, that the segment and model variants of the VW Touareg are in many ways responsible for THEIR continued success. It also has been so for over a decade.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 46,003
    I've done that road many times. You'll always get better MPG heading from NV to CA then the other way 'round. And from Tahoe to Sacramento you'll get outstanding mileage because, as they say, it's all downhill.

    that's not an easy drive for a 4 cylinder diesel car.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    edited April 2013
    Right. Then I take it you agree in a broad brush sort of way with what I have written. The aim was/ is/ continue to describe as best as possible the conditions where the mpg was posted. (in my anecdotal cases, the Acura MDX @ 20 mpg R/T and VW T 32 mpg R/T) Not that a lot of readers across the country are going to do EXACTLY that googled route. :) So as you would probably agree, that is why I posted LEGS of the trip and over all R/T mpg figures. Actually the 39.9 mpg WAS posted on the downgrade run heading south. That of course was lost going thru Sacramento, as I am one of the SLOW movers @ 85/90 mph !! ;) I must be getting OLD :lemon:

    I had an interesting wake up call on the UPGRADE portion in SAC, as I was passing a fully loaded tractor trailer. JUST as I was alongside but ALMOST past the tractor trailer rig, his left rear tire (last part of his trailer) EXPLODED with chunks of rubber flying like shrapnel and LONG pieces of tread contrails littering the road. I think the conversation would be FAR different if I was going slower than he. :lemon:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 46,003
    Oh yeah, you can FLY down the grade to Sacramento. Going up towards Tahoe, you'd need a pretty powerful car to command the left lane all the way up. My MINI does it fine but always throws the check engine light (which then goes off on the way into NV).

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    @ what altitude do you start to feel the effects on your Mini?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 46,003
    edited April 2013
    Having a supercharger, it doesn't seem much affected by altitude at all, but the engine light indicates a fuel mixture problem on a long, hot, hard climb. It's only 1.6L, after all. :P

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 15,167
    I guess in some ways this brings up the unknown metric. How many vehicles or percentages of the vehicle fleet are "forced air fed?, aka supercharger, turbo, twin turbo, etc. ? In the turbo diesels, it is certainly an advantage @ altitude. Gassers with superchargers and or turbo's seem to have more heat related issues.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 46,003
    What a supercharger gives a tiny gas engine is what a diesel engine doesn't need---low end torque.

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