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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 39,993
    As a "darter" those passing (50-75 mph) times are probably not as important as zero to 60 times.

    I think the 50 to 75 times are more important but you rarely see that marketed.

    I don't pull out in front of 60 mph traffic from a standing start too often, but around here you often need to pass on a two lane when the driver in front is poking along at 5 mph under the limit. A little oomph makes the pass quicker and safer.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    edited September 2012
    There is nothing that sharpens the senses as that fully loaded 80,000# truck coming AT you when you pull over into HIS lane to pass !!!

    I think you also illustrate a past point how almost utterly inconsequential the zero to 60 times really are. I say this in the context of having a vehicle that CAN do a 4 second zero to sixty. Ah, needless to say it is not a hopped up diesel. ;)

    YOu are absolutely correct. Passing times (50 to 75 mph in this example) are almost never mentioned, by either gassers or diesels . I think some of the car mags in the interest of having some more to blather about, sometimes do mention it. But then in over 50 years, I have yet to read a car mag article about the mechanics of how to pass "safely" on 2 lane roadways.

    Funny how you can find stuff on the internet
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 39,993
    edited September 2012
    The problem around here is by the time you are around the slowpoke and are pushing 70, you spot a deer on the shoulder.

    So, for diesels or gassers, the real important number is the 70 to zero time. :D

    Diesel drops nearly a nickel, still 30 cents over last year (Land Line)

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    Cars are actually better than bullets for that purpose. :sick: :blush: :lemon:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Supposedly the 2.5l is better than the older gassers but VW really does best with its turbocharged engines, especially the diesels.
  • I would by a diesel car if I went deaf and couldn't smell anymore, or if someone said Gasoline
    won't burn anymore. Nobody knows what happened , but it just won't burn.
  • I own 2 diesels and 1 gasoline vehicle. Both of the diesels are quiet, have exhaust tips that are soot free and give great torque, power and fuel mileage.
    The only time I can actually hear the diesel is at start up and idling. My gasoline vehicle is louder when cruising on the highway and has soot around the exhaust tip. The only detectable smell is an occasional ammonia like smell
    when the car is cleaning any accumulated soot from the cats.
    The diesel vehicles are a 2011 BMW 335d and a 2009 VW Jetta TDI. The gas vehicle is a 1996 4-Runner which happens to be the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    edited September 2012
    I wish my 94/96 TLC's had been turbo diesels (whatever Toyota calls them). I would have much preferred getting 25 mpg (I have read this is true for NON US market diesels, so IF Toyota had brought diesels to the US market that MIGHT be the figures) instead of 14-15 mpg. I first got interested in diesels when I read an article about the CN 1987 TLC turbo diesel. I think something like 1,500 units were let in to that country (total swag on my part).

    Not to beat a dead horse, but over 100,000 miles (early on the third go arounds) that would be 4,000 gals instead of 6,666 gals per 100k miles. We are shooting for 25 to 30 years of service, whatever the miles happen to be. With hindsight being 20/20, I probably wold not have bought VW diesels, if I was already getting 25 mpg on a TLC.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    edited September 2012
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 39,993
    edited September 2012
    From "page 2" of your link:

    "Once we introduce the Jetta hybrid, the Jetta will be the first volume model with a choice of gas, diesel, and hybrid in the US. We are interested to see what happens there. This is why I love reading what people say in online forums about their cars."

    Mr. Spira must love you and hate me. :) Will be interesting to see the Jetta "take" numbers in a few years.

    It's always fun seeing the VW pics in the Chattanooga area. That fireworks store is in Jasper TN; really on I-24 near where I'd always cut off to go to Alabama back in the day.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    edited September 2012
    I am not sure why? I think we already have some history (understatement for me) as to how much better the TDI's are (mpg wise) than the gassers. Performance also, but it might be a secondary issue. Perhaps the real question/issue: can they beat the 43 mpg (and by how much) on their hybrid offering. I would suspect the 2012 Prius's 50 mpg would be the official but unofficial bar.

    IF I was starting fresh, the 6 speed Passat TDI would be front and center, even as it is way too big and too much car.

    EPA of 43 H, with unofficial but official 84 mpg, sets a VERY high bar. So the other question would be: can the VW hybrid offering beat 84 mpg.

    Being as how I am not right now the one that really appeals to me is that hopped up GTD, which is not yet avaiable on the US markets. Baring that BWM needs to bring back that 425 # ft twin turbo diesel 3 series.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 39,993
    I am not sure why?

    The usual; fuel is higher, purchase price is often higher too, can be hard to find in the boonies, mechanics can be even harder to find, high particulates, and my wife can't tolerate the fumes.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    Got it. No real change for folks with your metrics?
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 39,993
    edited September 2012
    I'm cheap so that'll probably mean a gasser when our beaters finally die. Hybrids really appeal to my wife. I'm curious about the stats that say most hybrid owners don't buy a second one though. Not a good omen.

    Remind me to look up Jetta TCO when they get all three of them out.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    edited September 2012
    I hear you. Short term goal for the Jetta TDI is 250,000 miles. The second TB/WB change is due in 22,000 miles, or @ 200,000 miles. I am even thinking about changing the lifetime transmission fluid. The second head lamp (passenger side) went out within the last 6 months, so I would not change them both when one goes out. Glad I have skinny hands.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    I think the 50 to 75 times are more important but you rarely see that marketed.

    If we compared a gas to diesel in that segment, RPMs would also have to be taken into consideration. Those worthless little 4 cylinder gas engines have to scream to high RPMs and down shift to match the diesel performance. Then you are sucking gas like crazy with the DI gasser and it is likely Premium. Even big gas V8s do not come close to the torque of the V6 diesels until you get into the very expensive Turbo V8s. If you don't mind a $40k hit for a fire breathing V8 and the extra gas, the ML63 AMG is the one for you.

    The ML V6 gas has 273 ft-lbs of torque, compared to 455 ft-lbs in the Diesel model. For an insignificant $1700 premium. If you are looking for the most bang for your buck, it is hard to beat a diesel model when offered.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    introduce the Jetta hybrid

    I can guarantee failure for that one. For many reasons.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    it is likely Premium

    Didn't ruking1 just say only 9% of the gas fleet uses premium?

    Gassers fell behind mostly because fuel was so cheap it didn't really matter until recently.

    Nowadays, though, Volvo, Hyundai, Ford, Kia, Mazda, and GM all make DI gas turbos that run on regular fuel just fine.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 39,993
    Introduce the Jetta hybrid

    I can guarantee failure for that one. For many reasons.


    What if they wind up with a diesel hybrid?

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    edited September 2012
    On this thread anyway, it has been pretty well established that most folks are essentially brainwashed to chose the higher cost options when it comes to cost per mile driven (CPMD) fuel. Even if they are NOT brainwashed, most models and years do not have a valid diesel engine option comparison to chose among like models. So 95% of the folks will chose RUG/PUG (9% ) over diesel, despite

    RUG/PUG being 33% to 44 % more expensive than diesel.

    Sidebar puts: corner store prices @ RUG 4.09 /PUG 4.29 /ULSD 4.35 (it should be obvious that diesel sells for more than RUG/PUG Of course it would be 4.25 if the fuel tax was the same as RUG/PUG. Funny how ULSD is taxed more for being CLEANER 30 ppm, nominally delivered @ the pumps @ 5 to 10 ppm than RUG/PUG 30 to 90 ppm sulfur)

    VW 2009 TDI 39.6 mpg=.1098 cents CPMD / gasser 25.7=.159 cents CPMD/ T 29.4=.1459 cents CPMD

    The other issue of interest are real world mpg figures diesel are 54% to 35% better THAN rug/pug.

    VW pegs of late diesel yearly sales as app 20%. So one interpretation can be that of those considering VW's (aka RUG/PUG/ ULSD) 20% chose diesels, albeit given the three options. Another interesting note is that VW charges a slight to bigger premium for diesels.

    A guestion might be how would that effect the percentages if their were no premium above the engine option that uses PUG ?
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