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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,043
    I know a guy who leased a 55K Bluetec example with 5K down, 499/month.

    That is what I expected it to be. Not nearly twice that. He emailed me back saying that was the starting price. I told him up front make your first offer the best. And he screwed up. Though I don't think it would be close to what we got on the VW.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,953
    edited July 2013
    An interesting metric, a local VW dealer lists 2 (USED) 2012 VW T TDI Luxury between 49k to 51k.

    :blush: So if you got the 13 VW T TDI Lux @ 49.8k ? ! you are - $ 800 behind to + $1,200 ahead on a 1 year old car? :shades: Not bad !?

    AND for no monies down, walked out (well probably DROVE) the door with just youz's signatures !? Given 12,000 miles per year, that is .06 cents per mile to being paid .10 cents per mile to drive a NEW car? First scheduled maintenance interval @ 10,000 miles, included in the price? L's G.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,755
    That's their asking price. It'd be interesting to see the auction value.

    Gagrice - congrats on the new T-Reg! Can't wait to hear your driving/ownership impressions. Looks like ruking gets credit for a diesel convert!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,953
    edited July 2013
    That is what was used. So on that, we would agree. If you see a flock that nice at auction, send me a text !!!!! Auctions also charge their percentages. !! Naturally there are vendors offering financing also. I went to one where they started off an auction with a BMW 3 series (NON diesel, so might be off topic) (talk about 20/20 hindsight, aka coulda, woulda, shoulda) it gaveled @ $300. GEEZ !

    In the greater interests of this board, I think many to all of us (diesel owners or not) are interested in the experiences (good to bad) of the greater numbers and percentage of folks who do buy diesels, aka the broader headline of "alternative fuels".

    Unrelated, but nexus to diesels and probably TMI, not long ago a TSB (technical service bulletin) was sent for dealer modification of the diesel fuel nozzle. (VW T TDI to allow only the ULSD nozzle into the TDI's fuel tank) On first impression, I really don't want it done. However, the jury is still out.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,246
    I dunno - is it worse to put gas in a diesel or diesel in a gasser?

    Maybe diesels should have square nozzles that won't fit in rounds holes? ;)

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,953
    edited July 2013
    If anything, the co mingling of diesel hoses with RUG/PUG hoses (diesel pumps and hoses used to be separate in older stations- newer stations put them together) makes it more likely that RUG/PUG required vehicles get an accidental fill up of diesel ALSO ! With all the emphasis on GREEN fuel, are there folks who see the green handle (ULSD) and chose the "environmentally GREEN" hose !? With 95% of the passenger vehicle fleet being RUG/PUG (PUG estimate @ 9%) I would SWAG filling diesel in vehicles requiring RUG/PUG is probably more common than the other way around. I have not seen statistics on this.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,043
    While my dealer was looking for my white with saddle brown he found one the manager of a VW dealership was driving. Has about 6500 miles on it. He would not sell it at the USAA price. Wanted right at the MSRP. I would imagine they can sometimes do better when the new ones are all gone for the MY. It was in Utah. I tried buying one from Utah and they would not discount near as much as SD dealers. The $49,804 is less than Edmunds TMV for the TDI Lux.

    Signed over the Sequoia to my wife's grand daughter this morning. In CA if you sell to family there is no sales tax. That saved about $1440.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,043
    Looks like ruking gets credit for a diesel convert!

    Not a diesel convert, but a Touareg convert. I am hoping to beat his MPG with my milder driving technique. :shades: Can't wait to take it out on the highway for a couple hundred mile drive.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,953
    edited July 2013
    For sure your wife's GD had a HUGE savings ! This is not to mention a probable good deal on the vehicle in the process. It sounds like W/W !!!
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,953
    Indeed, I am swagging you will do BETTER !
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,043
    Yes the GD is tickled. She was driving an older 4Runner with 2WD. They are looking forward to winter trips to her husband's family in Tahoe. They also have the Sportswagen TDI that he commutes with. That is 45 miles each way so they save a bunch with the VW TDI.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    edited August 2013
    With all the emphasis on GREEN fuel, are there folks who see the green handle (ULSD) and chose the "environmentally GREEN" hose !?

    Yes, I could see this happening..also for my comment on this:

    I would SWAG filling diesel in vehicles requiring RUG/PUG is probably more common than the other way around.

    Yes, I agree with this also, mainly because your average diesel owner is basically a more responsible/aware vehicle owner...they aren't driving a diesel by accident..they drive one cuz they want one.

    Steve...it's wor$e to put gas in a diesel.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,246
    Thanks, wondered. I see ads in the UK for mobile service to drain tanks when you stall out after putting petrol in a diesel. There's a job opportunity for you when diesels catch on more. :shades:

    And I agree, Ruking - for a while there only diesels had green pump handles and then some suits decided that gasoline was "green" too. Dumb. Seems like BP was the instigator.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,953
    edited August 2013
    To me, the other scary thing is that the "green" plastic hose cover does not seem to always designate ULSD/ D2. I have seen them on other than D2 dispensers.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    If only it was as simple as just a pump out drain. That scene is more doable if diesel was pumped into a gas job..
    But that said, it used to be worse when diesel injection pumps were wholly responsible for entire injector psi. So...if anyone else can weigh in on the newer diesels, maybe it is not the catastrophic scene that it once used to be? Still really bad though..
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,246
    edited August 2013
    Yeah, the mobile service covers both but I think diesel in a gasser is much more common. I don't even remember that outfit doing gas out of diesel recovery when I looked at that link a year or so ago. "More than 400 people accidentally do this every day in the UK" - that in a country where there's what, likely 50% diesel vehicles running around? You'd think it wouldn't be too hard to make the nozzles harder to fit into the wrong filler tube.

    And yeah Ruking, I was thinking about the plastic hose covers when I said gas went "green".

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    For sure...remember when we went no lead? Rhetorical...of course you do...haha ya got a few years on me old man :shades:
    They made the leaded nozzles a bigger dia than the insert they put in no lead filler pipes to prevent mistakes.

    I'm shocker by those UK'rs...there're in a bigger, mindless hurry over there than we are here I guess :(

    Ya..gas in a diesel (even a really new one) is still something I would DREAD happening to my new GLK. Even caught quickly (let's say the fuel stn delivery guy had a mix :sick: ) I'll bet that scene would take an easy 150000 miles of life off the affected engine overnight. One problem for sure that I can get my head around, even with present tech, is the horrendous damaging pinging that would ensue before actual shutdown. Most owners (borrowers?) putting gas in their (friend's) diesel, are the least likely to actually tune in to the terrible sounds their car was making before actually conking out :( Gas is more explosive than diesel under ambient atmospheric conditions, so imagine how prone the electronics would allow it to ping under the extra high CC pressures of a diesel? The knock sensor would tell the ECU to retard timing as much as it possibly could. But that parameter might still be so broad that pre-detonation (and noticeable lack of power) would create an awfully foul mood diesel.

    So...that's actually an interesting question...I wonder if these new models have sophisticated enough electronic intervention that they shut the engine down like right away at the first whiff of the wrong fuel? Fast enough that maybe the engine life can be saved?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,953
    edited August 2013
    In the US market that UK statistic is hard to put into context. There are 40 M passenger vehicles in the UK. So the incidence is 146,000/40,000,000= .00365% The US market has 258.4 M, AND we do not have the US market figures. So even if we do 146,000, the incidence is .000565%. Again 50% + are diesels in the UK (20 M+). The US markets are more like 5% (12.92 M)
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,246
    edited August 2013
    I have no idea if that 50% number is real either - just pulled it out of thin air.

    But 400 a day is a bit much, especially if it happens to you. :blush:

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    I've heard that 50% number randomly quite often too, so is probably not far off the mark.

    Anecdotally though, on Coronation Street (a UK TV soap) the vast majority of vehicles used in scenes are predominantly diesel...by a landslide actually..
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,043
    Seems like BP was the instigator.

    BP was an early adopter of ULSD before the mandate. If they have put green handles on their gas pumps that is a bad idea. However I will not be buying any BP/ARCO diesel for my Touareg. They only take cash or charge for ATM purchases. So I cannot use my Costco AMEX that gives me 3% on all fuel purchases at non box store stations. Our local Chevron has good price on diesel most of the time. Right now Diesel and RUG are both around $3.95. Plus I only have to fill half as many times as with the gassers.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,043
    One good thing in CA is all the gas dispensers have to have those sealed type nozzles to protect us from Deadly RUG/PUG fumes. Diesel nozzles are still the same old ones that have been around a long time. I never let anyone fuel my diesel vehicles in the past except where forced by Oregon law. And he was the one that broke my filler cap and it cost him $225.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,953
    edited August 2013
    What I have come to think about cars outside US markets is to suspend both belief and disbelief. While we tend to think they are seamless across country's boundaries, they are indeed NOT ! While not many folks do this, try to import a NOT made for US market car into the US. One will quickly see, it is FAR from seamless.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,447
    Seems like we have a new diesel mpg champion - at least by EPA standards.

    http://rumors.automobilemag.com/2014-bmw-328d-rated-by-epa-237163.html
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,949
    Now MB needs to get the C250 diesel going to beat it. C250 diesel 4Matic wagon, yes.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,949
    As long as the car is 25+ years old, you'll have no problems. Otherwise, virtually impossible. The US has perhaps the most repressive private import rules on the planet.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,043
    That is GREAT news. I love to see the competition for diesel champ. The Passat TDI did not hold the title for long. Though the Chevy Cruze diesel is top rated at 46 on highway. They must have geared the Cruze for highway mileage, as it drops off in the city well below the competition. The ball is back in the Audi and MB court to top BMW. I don't expect the Domestics to compete much.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,043
    I seriously thought about bringing an old diesel SUV from Canada. The hassles and just old technology, combined with very high prices killed my interest. Glad I waited. Hopefully I have my new ride today.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,953
    edited August 2013
    A good thing really !!!! For decades BMW used US markets to sell their (relatively) fuel hogs (among others). The BEST ( mpg) BMW's STILL do not hit US markets. :sick:

    It would seem the (ZF?) 8 speed A/T is a key component of both the performance and mpg metrics. Makes me wonder if a 6/7 speed M/T will be offered. It remains to be seen if real world mpg will meet and/or exceed or come below EPA figures. @ almost 40k MSRP, the new BMW 328 D, is FAR (@ app $17 K) MORE expensive than the VW mentioned in the article ;) With a few (can't do without) options, $45 to 55 k would probably seem "normal".

    So for VW, I think it hastens the 8 speed dry sump DSG to the US markets.

    I also look forward to the also rumored BMW X5 35 D or whatever the redesign will be designated. Since the 328 D has the 8 speed A/T, I would suspect the X5 35 D would also have to have it. (from 6 speed)

    14 BMW X5 35 D "REDESIGN"
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