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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Great deal for you! I'm not familiar with the VW Wagon situation in 2006, were they limited production or some other reason why the value wen up?

    My only close to similar experience was when I bought a 2002 Honda S2000 in November 2001. MSRP was $33,300 with freight; I paid $32,000. Three months earlier, before 9-11, dealers were marking the car up to $38-$40k+ But this was as the first snowflakes were flying, and only 2 months after 9-11. When I checked six months later in April, the Edmunds "True Market Value" for a new car was $37,000 here in the DC area, and if you plugged in a California zip code, it was $40,000. Purely a supply/demand issue, because of Honda's limited production.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,679
    Two things were in my favor on this deal. First the 2001-05 Passat Wagon TDI made in the EU was not legal in any of the California wannabe states. The oil companies were in the process of switching their diesel to ULSD. In the Spring of 2005 diesel prices spiked and that killed the market for diesel VWs in the states they were being sold. A dealer South of Portland Oregon had ordered several of the TDI wagons and was not moving them. I found the dealer and made the deal over the Internet at well below MSRP. We flew to Portland where the salesman picked us up in our new car. We Drove back to the dealership. I gave them a cashiers check and we headed back to San Diego. BP/ARCO was the only oil company selling ULSD in 2005 in CA. I printed out a list of the ARCO dealers in CA selling ULSD. We drove from Portland to the first dealer in CA on the tank provided by the dealership. The 13 months I owned it we only used ARCO ULSD. Over the 8376 miles I owned the car, the best tank was 37.53 MPG. The worst tank was 24.41 MPG. I am not sure how big the tank was. The most I ever got in was 17.283 gallons. Finding ULSD was not easy back then. From April of 2005 till I sold in May of 2006 the cheapest diesel was $2.49 and the highest $3.39 a gallon. I filled up my GMC the same day same ARCO, RUG was $2.93. As a percentage diesel is a much better deal today than in 2005.

    Diesel mileage is much improved as well. I loved driving the Passat. It was just too close to the ground for my tastes. I doubt I will ever make money buying and selling a new car again. That was a lucky deal for me.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,488
    edited October 2012
    For each of the diesels we have bought, each was almost a set of non standard metrics: one off type, of variables/circumstances and deals. Here's the first.

    I literally stumbled onto the 2003 Jetta TDI. (invoice+ broker fee) I had wanted and thought I had ordered a NB. Got it from a GM dealer in wine country (Napa, CA area) So I did not have to come back up, they offered to flat bed it to my garage, sans fees. It was hard to pass up doing an iconic wine country tour so I made a Sunday pick up date. My sales guy explained the dealership was not open on Sundays, but he was happy to open the dealership to pick up the vehicle. !??? I had brought a personal check, but VW was offering an almost no interest loan. I literally drove away on a signature. Longer story short, after adjusting to the fact there was a Jetta in front of me instead of a NB and a few phone calls to the wife, he took me on a three hour guided tour of the wine country. I think we wound up glad that the car even though it was not from around there, knew the way. ;) :shades:
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,488
    Interesting @ the end of the MY 2012, there are still some TDI inventory in the CUV segment (SUV segment app 12% of the Pass Vehicle Fleet)

    BMW X5 35 D =671 units

    VW Touareg TDI =407 units

    MB ML 350 CDI= 45 units

    There are of course a much higher ratio of gassers left.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "BMW X5 35 D =671 units"

    Where are you getting BMW inventory data?

    It's not on the BMW USA website that I can find, and I'm pretty sure you aren't calling every dealer in the US to add them up. I've asked this question at least twice before and you seem to promptly respond to every other post, except that particular question. So maybe it's something that you would have to shoot me for if I knew??
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,488
    edited October 2012
    I thought I had posted it, but either it was taken down or I got caught in a internet or thread posting time warp. So again, or maybe if I was mistaken, the first time Inventory
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,488
    edited October 2012
    2012 VW Touareg @ 13,000 miles (12654 miles actual, screen came on indicating 1,500 miles left ) the AD BLUE reservoir tank seemed to take a qt shy of 5 gals (2 each 2.5 gal containers). So that is app .048 oz per mile, per 1000 miles = 48 oz/1.5 qt consumption. I made a beeline to the dealer and they took the car in right away. They seemed to be ok with me in the bays watching the proceedings. The techs actually performed a fine and thoughtful job.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,488
    I probably forgot to put in the costs for the general discussion. The BLUE DEF (ad blue) is available at a few places, WalMart being one of them, @ 13.99 per 2.5 gal container. So if we use 2 containers (27.98 ) for 15,000 miles the costs break down as such"

    per mile .0018653

    @ 30 mpg .055959 cents per gal

    per 1000 miles - $1.86
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Did you need to take it to the dealer to put it in? It's covered under BMW's 4 year / 50k included service plan, but I thought it was something I also could do myself - as in filling windshield fluid?

    P.S. Thanks for the previous post on your inventory data source.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,488
    edited October 2012
    The answer is yes. They do not want to give you the materials and let you do it. The dispensing system is a bit interesting , as it is designed to limit spillage in a "jerry rigged" sort of way. The solution is corrosive if allowed to come in contact with even galvanized and painted sheet metal. So neutralization and wipe up is a must, upon spillage.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited October 2012
    O.K. Sounds like I'd be prudent to limit my DIY attempts to other things that don't risk removing the Black Sapphire paint from my wife's X5. She might remove a couple of my body parts in revenge.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,679
    Is the X5 filler on the outside with the fuel filler. One of the Adblue vehicles has the filler in the same spot. Best to use a good funnel and be ready to wash any drops that may hit the paint. Safe for humans not most metals.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,488
    edited October 2012
    Oh no, I did not intend that to be a response, especially from a DIYer. (like yourself)

    I do understand that the plastic dispensing product is standard in the BLUE DEF product space.

    Before and after watching the techs doing the job, I already knew how and was bound and determined to be ABLE to do it myself. One caution I did pick up was that if you reused the smaller sized dispensing (1/2 gal) bottle with the bottoms cut out to was to use a rag over the cut off end to avoid air burping causing product backsplash.

    Really the hardest thing about the procedure once you have the proper equipment is to pull the stuff out of your trunk, i.e., unbolt your spare tire and pull out. You can even use a long neck funnel, but the reused bottle dispensing system is GREAT if you are getting near filled as it stops the excess from splashing as a funnel will NOT, all over the floor of your trunk.

    Peak 2.5 gal Blue DEF and hose adapter

    Here is a sample of what the dispenser looks like:

    AdBlue DEF Diesel Exhaust Fluid 1.89 liter 4 - 1/2 Gallon bottles 4 Bottles

    Dispenser bottle AdBlue/DEF diesel exhaust fluid
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,488
    edited October 2012
    Evidently, (in hind sight) the 2012 VW Passat TDI seems to be hit. Out of 2,276 units LEFT in the inventory, there are only 91 diesels !!!
  • michaellmichaell Posts: 4,300
    Evidently, (in hind sight) the 2012 VW Passat TDI seems to be hit. Out of 2,276 units LEFT in the inventory, there are only 91 diesels !!!

    Which is about 4%.

    Do you know how many Passat TDI's were sold in MY 2012, versus the total number of Passats?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,488
    edited October 2012
    They do not typically come out with a (2012) MY sales figures till Jan or Feb (2013) . However YTD is 83,662 Passat units Sep. 2012.

    Last year (2011) between 22-23% of the VW fleet (app 324,500 units) were diesels. So that is app 74.6 k diesel units.

    link title

    On the 2012 VW Touareg, the best swag I have are 7,773 total units (7112 sold/661 unsold) manufactured. 2011 Touareg sales were 7535 units. (for app 3.2% more)
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,968
    Unleaded gas is dropping fast around here, unlike diesel.

    Today I got RUG for $3.52. Same station was selling diesel for $4.09 and I saw other stations selling it for $4.29 and $4.39.

    Paying 57 cents a gallon more sounds a lot worse than the 16% percentage differential.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,488
    edited October 2012
    Corner store prices

    ULSD $4.35

    RUG $4.33

    PUG $4.53

    We need CA state and Fed tax credits for having to put up with these inequalities. :P :lemon:

    CA state of course blames the Fed. The Fed of course blames CA state. The refineries blame the CA state and FED and court systems and world wide taxation. I have even noticed that counties blame counties. They should work in county tax credits we can take on state and fed taxes !!
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,968
    I wonder how the transportation industry would react if there was a push to increase the number of diesel passenger cars with incentives like the hybrids got.

    More demand could tighten supply and drive prices up for the truckers, in which case they'd start running over TDIs. :D

    I suspect the supply would simply increase though. Toss in some tax relief and you could increase the number of diesel cars on the road.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited October 2012
    Where are you located that ULSD is 57 cents higher than RUG? What is PUG going for?

    We hav only filled up 3 times, but in all cases in the DC area, diesel is less than premium and usually about the same as mid grade. All of the other vehicles we were considering (BMW, Acura, Audi, Mercedes) and currently own require premium, so that is our relevant comparison and we are usually saving 10-20 cents per gallon with diesel.

    I can't quite figure out what's up with the Shell station in DC:

    RUG: 4.09
    MUG: 4.35
    PUG: 4.45
    Diesel: 4.15

    The are much higher than suburban stations for gas and we would never go there, except as a last resort, but they are actually relatively competitive with suburban stations relative to diesel.
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