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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 39,015
    "Diesel will be a point of differentiation for us,” Sullivan said. “We will be the only Asian company bringing a diesel to the U.S.”

    The previous Mazda6 was made in Flat Rock in a joint venture assembly plant with Ford.

    But the 2014 Mazda6 is made in Japan, and Ford is using all the capacity in Flat Rock to make the Mustang with plans to add Fusion production. "

    2014 Mazda6 to offer diesel engine, a first for a Japanese car (Detroit Free Press)
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited November 2012
    Ford & Hyundai's turbos run OK with regular fuel.

    Not sure it's still the case, but my previous experience and research seemed to show that any/most engines that ran OK with regular fuel, were NOT leading technology, higher performance, high compression engines.

    I run at about the same speed whether I eat a good breakfast or have leftover pizza. But I'm not exactly Usain Bolt. And a Ford isn't a BMW, and a Hyundai (much as they might wishfully think differently with their Genesis ad) isn't a Porsche. I don't think Ford or Hyundai have an engineering secret to take advantage of low octane gas; rather I think they don't have - or elected not to use - state of art, high compression engines that maximize performance and efficiency through the use of premium gas.

    So I'm not sure giving a manufacturer credit for having engines that burn lower octane regular gas is really a compliment. It sounds like some of my baseball teammates complimenting me at the end of last season that I'm "fast for my age". My kids jumped in with the translation that I'm not that fast, just old.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,684
    Are they saying the 2.5L is a gasser? The one being offered in the UK is a real slug. They would be better off waiting until they have both to debut. Probably another Honda diesel wannabe story. The Japanese auto makers need to hire some German engineers.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 39,015
    edited November 2012
    Yeah, kind of sloppily written.

    "The 2014 Mazda6, first shown at Moscow in August and then Paris in September, will be on sale in January, first with the 184-horsepower, 2.5-liter gasoline four. The 2.2-liter diesel will follow later in the year.

    It will make Mazda only the second mainstream automaker to offer a passenger diesel in the U.S. Volkswagen is the other. Diesels make up more than 20% of VW sales in the U.S."

    Diesel option announced at new Mazda6's U.S. debut (USA Today)

    I don't know if Mazda is big enough to pull off its ambitious plans in general, especially with their currency issues, but they are part of a big conglomerate that can help them out.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I disagree. It's not like Porsche is ever going to transport the masses.

    And isn't the goal a low fuel cost? If you can run 87 octane you save 10% right there.

    If we stick with your baseball analogy, here's a player batting .300 who earns half as much and helps you stay under the salary cap.

    I'm sure you can increase output with higher octane gas, just like you can in a Porsche by filling it up with racing fuel.

    Certain turbos can tolerate lower octane and are simply more flexible, so they can use a wider range of octane.

    I'd say that's better by any measure.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited November 2012
    184hp is par for that class.

    Keep in mind Mazda's SkyActiv engines have been tuned for efficiency and have been beating EPA estimates by a wide margin in the real world.

    Back to diesels, it will be very interesting to see how Asian brand buyers respond to having a diesel option in the Spring. Freaking finally!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,684
    it will be very interesting to see how Asian brand buyers respond to having a diesel option in the Spring. Freaking finally!

    We heard the same thing from Honda in 2008 and they could not pass the EPA/CARB emissions test. So no Honda diesel. And it was a great engine. Probably a big seller in the EU for them.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I wonder if Mazda would have gone this far with the displays and announcements if they weren't sure?

    Anything is possible.

    Too bad the handsome wagon won't be sold here.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,493
    edited November 2012
    In terms of the Mazda Euro & US markets sales experiences, I would say yes and no and a REAL gamble/ "crap shoot" for Mazda.

    Honda has done better than Mazda in both markets. Yet even Honda struggles in the European markets. It does better than Mazda in US markets. Yet as Gagrice has noted has yet to bring the diesel TO the US markets; despite its expertise in emissions compliance IN the US markets. Indeed in past articles I have read about Honda diesel in the European markets, it was/remains a good product and the linchpin for Honda's success in the European markets. European markets will hit some patches of very tough sales volume. That will probably effect less market share percentage name plates like Honda & Mazda disproportionately. They have certainly experienced challenges in China a stronger market than either Europe or US.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Funny thing is the things Mazda does wrong are also why I respect the company.

    They roll to the beat of their own drummer. It doesn't results in commercial success, but their cars are interesting.

    Should be no surprise that Mazda will be the first Japanese brand to bring a mainstream diesel here. They were unique when it came to rotary, Miller cycle, and tiny (1.8L) V6s as well.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,493
    Like Honda, Mazda STILL has no diesel on the US market. :lemon:
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,937
    Hopefully the diesel will trickle down. I like the engines, but really don't want it in something even the size of a 6. Just a C350 or even C250 diesel has more appeal to me than an E350.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited November 2012
    The 6 did get too big. The last one got all swoopy so you had to duck to get in. This one seems better designed, but still big.

    The CX5 and Mazda3 are the volume segments where they can offer a diesel and sell in big numbers, potentially. MazdaSpeed3D would be fun. :shades:

    I wonder if they'll even keep the Mazda5 long enough to get a diesel. That's been a tough segment here in the US (Mazda5, Rondo, C Max, Prius V are all low volume).

    Edit: saw a Corolla Verso (tall wagon) with diplomatic plates this morning.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,937
    A 3 diesel would be good - fast and lighter, so better economy. That's what I would look for. I don't want anything bigger than the E55, and today these "family sized" cars are pushing it.

    Speaking of Toyota tall wagon, reminds me of something in Germany - Toyota Picnic. Ghastly unsightly tall wagon usually driven by the slow and oblivious.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Had to look that up, hadn't even ever heard of it. Not for sale in Brazil. Looks about the size of the old Zafira from GM.

    Don't complain when it goes away and gets replaced with Toyota's 17th crossover model. :D
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,937
    Fine with me, as long as it makes the inept easy to spot. They move from dopey tall wagons to dopey CUVs. :shades:
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,684
    Toyota has very little sense of aesthetics when it comes to vehicle design.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,407
    Surprised that article about the Mazda seemed to forget that Toyota sold a diesel Camry here in the 80's. They even had an awd Camry.

    Very happy so see the 6 diesel and glad it will have a stick shift (otherwise no sale for me). Pretty sure emissions won't be a problem as they are already saying it meets the standards without any urea additive. With 170+ hp and 300 ft/lbs of torque it should be peppy - especially since the word is it likes to rev like no other diesel - partly due to low compression.

    Now if they only put it in the wagon. My concern with the swoopy 4 door is the lack of rear headroom , which makes the back seat not so useful to me (3 tall sons). However since this will be a segment buster I will probably bite the bullet and get one anyway - kids can slouch in the back. Jetta SW is just too small, and don't really trust Passat, but it is a compelling vehicle.

    BTW the stick shift Honda diesel did pass emissions, just not the automatic.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,273
    If it was available in wagon form here, I'd consider it. As it's not, I'll keep tooling along with my current stable. :)
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 39,015
    Dan Neil stokes the fires over at the Wall St. Journal:

    "The diesel segment in America is essentially German air space.... Yes, the Germans have jumped in with both feet, and they have been rewarded with pretty flat demand, actually. Diesel market penetration in the U.S. hovers around 3%....

    Why is demand flat? One reason is the stubborn price premium on diesel fuel, which was running 15% higher than regular gasoline.... Whatever mileage advantages diesel vehicles offer are being largely zeroed out at the pump.

    The vehicles themselves carry a diesel [price] penalty. In order to recoup, in fuel savings, the additional outlay for the Cayenne Diesel you would have to own it for about 11.9 years."

    There's more, including some good stuff. But not much.

    A Porsche Cayenne for Diesel Fetishists Only
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