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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,852
    edited February 2013
    NC biker should get informed as well. UK emissions are much less strict than EPA/CARB. I don't think they use urea injection and their ULSD is not as clean as ours. I don't think they have gone to 10 PPM yet. So they are tied to the 50 PPM that was mandated about the time we went to 15 PPM. The exhaust from my wife's Lexus is much more obnoxious as the exhaust from her grand daughters VW Sportswagen TDI.

    Love the smell of diesel in the morning. Nothing like the smell of biodiesel to raise your craving for McDonald's French Fries.

    PS
    You can keep your silly Metric system. yuck
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,016
    I like my metric tape measure. But the counting theory is based on language differences.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,709
    edited February 2013
    Urea solutions in the states anyway are handled by companies that make (like) "PEAK" coolant/antifreeze.

    In addition, there are HEFTY fines/penalties for D2/ULSD that exceeds the standard of 15 ppm. On the other hand, the standard for RUG/PUG is @ 30 ppm. If a vendor wants to bring 30 to 90 ppm RUGPUG to market, all they have to do is pay the standard fees for exceeding the 30 ppm standards. :surprise: :blush:
  • :confuse: Just to correct some misinformation..........

    ULSD in the UK is 10ppm Sulphur content and has been since 2011. Same ULSD is also now, (since start of 2012), mandated for use in all railroad diesel locomotives. We haven't seen 50ppm for years and years. Indeed, common sense would tell you that our huge population of diesel cars, (German, French, Swedish, Japanese etc), would simply be killed by 50ppm gunk. 10ppm is, of course an EU Standard.

    Also............UK pricing for Gasoline and ULSD includes exactly the same levels of taxation for each fuel. Gasoline is cheaper than ULSD by approx 7 pence per litre, (£0.07 per litre), but diesel cars are still the best sellers. MPG gains generally outweigh the cost difference. Local prices to-day are :

    Gasoline : £1.349 per litre

    ULSD : £1.419 per litre

    You can do your own calculations to get to $/USG.

    Yes we buy our fuels in Litres but calculate our economy in MPG. Some things are hard to change. :blush:
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,016
    edited February 2013
    What's your take on NC Riders' comment on that linked site? I don't remember getting killed by fumes the few times I've traveled over there, but it's been a few years now.

    My sister tries to go over to England most every Spring for the gardens and she usually rents a car. I keep waiting for her to wind up with a diesel and then put gasoline in it (that'd be just like her too). She usually rents the cheapest models she can get though, so maybe that's why she winds up with gassers.

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think his was 2007 ... the V6 was just not enough power

    Let's keep in mind the Pentastar V6 is a lot more powerful. Back in 07 the V6 made only 210hp, the small V8 had 235.

    Today's Pentastar makes 260hp, more then the old V8 did.

    Even torque output is good - 290 lb-ft.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    since it's being debuted in Europe, if an internal-combustion engine is part of the motivation, there's a good chance it could be Subaru's boxer diesel.

    Read more: http://www.trucktrend.com/features/news/2013/163_news130111_subaru_teases_viziv_- concept/viewall.html#ixzz2KhzRZbtt
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    I can't speak for England, but I usually spend anywhere from 2-4 weeks a year with friends in Germany, based out of a small village 50KM north of Frankfurt.

    Germany is full of diesels, and the air quality I have observed there over the last 10 years or so has been excellent. Until smoking was all but banned in Germany, the atmosphere was 1000 times worse in a pub or a restaurant than on the street/highway.

    That's my take on it, anyway...
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,515
    I've never seen air quality issues there, either. I wasn't there in 1955 so I don't know what that was like when everyone was polluted, but today - no worse than here, for sure. Well, Berlin can be kind of stinky in the winter, drainage issues - but that's a different problem :shades:
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    IIRC, Berlin was built on the top of an old lake bed...
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 393
    Another interesting point is that up here in Canada diesel is normally priced closer to regular ( slightly above or below) and is often lower priced than reg. I know there are still taxation differences likely, but still something to ponder ( ie. why do the American governments want shipping for food etc to be higher than it needs to be?).
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,852
    The theory on language being a barrier to learning math does not ring true. I think it is more our system of education that wastes a lot of valuable time in class teaching Multicultural BS and social engineering. That and a total lack of discipline in classes starting in kindergarten. Our school systems are a big mess. A big waste of tax payers money.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,016
    edited February 2013
    The real problem is all the diesel fumes from the idling school buses leaking into the classroom making everyone dumber. :P

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  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    I have limited experience in European education, but I was once taken to "show & tell" by my German friend's 8th grader, and I was the show/tell subject/item.

    It was in 2002, IIRC.

    From what I saw there, at least in this classroom, there was far more emphasis on world geography, culture, etc. During this educational term, the kids were focusing on the USA, and each kid was assigned a state. Being from SC, my daughter's friend had picked SC to be her state. So, I got to do a "song and dance" about SC.

    They weren't focused just on the USA, either. During other terms, the kids focused on Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Africa.

    I have to admit, I was really impressed with the level of questions and understanding these kids had about the world. This was a public school, and every kid in her class spoke conversational English... Not perfect, but certainly conversational.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    edited February 2013
    And the word Canada never came up? Not even once?? :(

    What a sheltered life those poor kids led....lead still maybe?.. :(

    Yet we have a significant German immigrant presence here..and not just recently..
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Oops! My omission. All of NA and SA should have been included in my comment...

    Funny. Those kids knew every state in the USA by name.

    Wanna bet what % of US 8th graders know the states of Germany? The countries in the EU? HOW many countries in the EU?

    How many USA HS graduates know any of he above?

    And, we wonder what's wrong with our educational system...
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,852
    edited February 2013
    Funny. Those kids knew every state in the USA by name.

    Wanna bet what % of US 8th graders know the states of Germany? The countries in the EU? HOW many countries in the EU?

    How many USA HS graduates know any of he above?


    You could ask college kids those questions in the USA and get mostly blank stares. I had to memorize the capitols of every state. If you did not pass the test you got bad grades. Today they don't want to give kids bad grades for fear they will be traumatized. We are NOT getting our money's worth on education in the USA. Germany spends half what we spend in CA per student year. A kid that does excel is rewarded with a good job. My nephew is in his senior year at UCSD on a math scholarship. He was just flown to TX for an interview and will be going to work upon graduation. Part of the brain drain out of CA to TX. Anyone with money that stays here is crazy.

    Probably because you could buy diesel cars in TX while they were banned here. :P
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,016
    Best course I ever took was a research class. You can look all that stuff up in about five seconds. ;)

    "Ford Motor Co.'s chief operating officer said Monday the automaker is prepared to act quickly should there be a spike in demand for diesel-powered automobiles.

    "If we see diesels start to take off here in the U.S., we can react very quickly," said Mark Fields, speaking to students and faculty at the University of Michigan's Ross School of Business. Fields attributed the flexibility to the fact Ford sells diesel-powered vehicles in other regions, particularly Europe, and Ford's global platform strategy."

    Ford: 'We can react very quickly' if diesel demand rises (Detroit News)

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,852
    The question is this? Can Ford compete with VW. The Focus diesel sold in the UK gets about 10 MPG Imp less than the Golf it would compete against. It is a lot smaller than the Jetta and gets the same combined mileage. And it is not as clean as the VW sold in the EU. Price looks comparable.

    I hope they give it a shot. I could like a diesel Explorer. I doubt they are here before I buy my last vehicle.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,709
    edited February 2013
    In theory then, ANY oem that does a world wide diesel is similarly "poised" , which is literally almost EVERY oem. In effect this has been so for easily 10 to 20 years. So I think it is easy to see how "quickly they actually have reacted. I think this is a "wanna be" shot across the bow of oems that have actually brought passenger CAR diesels to the US market, specifically VW A. I can tell VW is literally quaking in their boots @ the Chatanooga TN US Passat plant where 20% of the Passats are diesel. Where is Ford's ( and GM and Chysler's) NEW billion dollar + US plant/s that puts together 20% Ford diesels?

    Now you have to give Ford, GM and Chysler for having trio handedly created the 250/2500 and above larger V8 TDI "light" truck markets, albeit niche niche markets!!??. Now they truly have been on the US markets for literally decades. The big three have had NO foreign competition in these markets !! In fact they were behind the 5% of diesels and were the majority of the diesel markets, when the US policy makers policies had the effect of chopping that to 3% passenger diesels. Is Ford really going to bring passenger car diesels to the US markets because MB and BMW are? I think this is the kind of talk that was made for Budweiser commercials, after about 10 too many beers. and multiple trips to the lady's room. :P Reality proves this kind of bravado as not credible in the real world.

    It is like me saying I have been driving a Ford Focus diesel for the last 10 years and 180,000 miles. It simply would not be real world credible.
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