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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I fear the typical Camcord driver will be scared

    True, but Mazda has been clobbered when they've tried to take on Honda or Toyota head on. They simply don't have the resources.

    The diesel angle might just work.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2013
    I can appreciate a CEO with legitimate grudges, but when he airs his questionably learned opinions in an ugly and nationally embarrassing way, it's not OK

    I agree, he definitely crossed the line. His comments were offensive.

    Just don't buy the plant, the insults were totally unnecessary.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    edited February 2013
    Our local town just adopted their first traffic circle intersection that was originally scheduled for street lights. Talk about a raving success story. The traffic circle was not only way way cheaper to construct, it doesn't require electricity, computers, or continuous upkeep to be operational. And is a safer intersection on so many levels.
    Instead of T Bones, there is the potential for fender benders both going the same direction at 2 to 10 mph. It saves fuel, brakes, clutches, torque converters, tires, time, patience and even safely controls the intersection in event of a power outage.

    And if all those perks aren't enough to raise an optimistic embracing eyebrow or two from potential naysayers, this design in our town didn't use anymore real estate than a streetlght controlled intersection. Granted, the potential to replace lit intersections with circles and not use any more land, is greater on 2 lane roadways than multi lane, but the difference is marginal since multi lane intersections also use proportionately greater real estate. Even if 2 lane intersections were replaced with circles, the above mentioned savings could still be immensely helpful for many commuters since many still encounter a pile of 2 lane streetlights.

    Diesel power and traffic circles...a great green combo..

    Also.....absolutely LOVE that TD Mazda6 wagon! Bring it on...with an AWD option..
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,937
    edited February 2013
    As long as the costs aren't too large for marketing/selling the diesel, maybe Mazda can make a go of it. Sadly, the brand is just too offbeat to make it big. If a diesel Camcord came around, it would fare better IMO, people would feel safe to begin with. Mazda would probably do best with it in their CUVs.

    And I agree with the traffic circle post below - something we need more of. The fuel wasted at negligently maintained lights has to be stupefying.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Better yes, but I wonder...what about as a % of sales?

    I really think Honda/Toyota would have a hard time getting the diesel models to, say, 30 or 40% of their sales for that model.

    Yet I can imagine Mazda doing that easily.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,493
    edited February 2013
    The real success story in that regard is VVA. The model success story from a "mainstream pov" are the 2011 Passat "soft" opening.

    The 2012 Passat and soon to be 2013 MY's, both promise to be banner years for its diesels (gassers also).

    My guess VW in is various iterations are the targets both the GM/Chevy Cruz and Mazda diesels are aiming @ to take market share from. VW has already demonstrated over multiple years and models that TDI's can be a significant minority %.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,937
    Maybe a 6 wagon could have such a high diesel take rate (as it would sell to general car enthusiasts), but something like a CX-5, I don't know. A large amount of drivers of those will be scared of the noise and smell of diesel.

    I'd be shocked if a diesel Camcord hit a 20% take rate, maybe even less - but 15% of 300K units gains more exposure than 50% of 10K units.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,273
    Can't disagree with you on anything stated in that post!

    We have precious few circles here, and they are a love/hate amongst motorists, but they sure do ease congestion in previously congested areas... as long as people use them properly!

    The one on our university campus was a nightmare for the first year it was there due to timid drivers flat refusing to enter the circle unless it was devoid of any other car. :sick:
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    Yes, I can picture that pretty easily..but as we know, those same timid drivers probably shouldn't be sharing the roads with the rest of us at the best of times. Not everyone share equal abilities or aptitudes. You might be going under the knife of THEE BEST surgeon within 5000 miles, and literally save your life. Yet that same surgeon might take your life a couple months later by making some incompetent move on the roadway you were both using at the same time. We can't all have the same strengths.

    As for learning curves..no doubt they are real..but often worth it in the end.

    In our town the local paper did an interesting poll, both pre circle and 6 month post circle. Pre circle still had 65% or so..(I forget exact #s) in favour (favor) of the project. Post circle stats showed a 90+ % approval..so it looks like many fence-sitters got on board, and even a few naysayers were transformed.
  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,351
    edited February 2013
    Maybe a 6 wagon could have such a high diesel take rate (as it would sell to general car enthusiasts), but something like a CX-5, I don't know. A large amount of drivers of those will be scared of the noise and smell of diesel.

    People have been asking for a Tiguan TDI for years now, and I understand why VW doesn't do it as the current Tig is made in Germany and is already too expensive. Maybe the next generation. Anyhow, I think the first one with a diesel in that small CUV market has an opportunity and a big EPA number never hurts the marketing effort.

    In addition, I think there's pent up demand for a Japanese diesel in the US; a lot of people grew up, rightly or wrongly, with the belief that Japanese makes are tops in reliability and have a hard time jumping to an American or Euro brand, diesel or not. With Mazda struggling as an independent, they have little to lose in being first to market. I think its a bold and enlightened move on their part.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,493
    edited February 2013
    ..."People have been asking for a Tiguan TDI for years now, and I understand why VW doesn't do it as the current Tig is made in Germany and is already too expensive. Maybe the next generation. Anyhow, I think the first one with a diesel in that small CUV market has an opportunity and a big EPA number never hurts the marketing effort.

    In addition, I think there's pent up demand for a Japanese diesel in the US; a lot of people grew up, rightly or wrongly, with the belief that Japanese makes are tops in reliability and have a hard time jumping to an American or Euro brand, diesel or not. With Mazda struggling as an independent, they have little to lose in being first to market. I think its a bold and enlightened move on their part."...

    Actually there is another VW CUV in works. I was a tad confused on first read ( ala knowing about the Tiquan- your reference to Tiquan) While the article I read did not say it would have a diesel option, it does "kill two birds with one stone". So my take is that there is price resistance for a TDI Tiquan. However if and when VW can come up with a CUV model that addresses this issue, I would look to that (unknown) model and year to fill the % TDI bill.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'd be shocked if a diesel Camcord hit a 20% take rate, maybe even less

    Oh I think it would be way, way less than that.

    Camry hybrid sold 4,443 units out of 404,886 total, or only about 1% of total Camry sales. To be fair, they sell tons of Prius and those are also mid-size.

    My guess is a diesel Camry would not match the hybrid. That buyer wants isolation and zero NVH, not exactly diesel strengths.

    Mazda only sold 34k Mazda6 last year, but it was a lame duck old model. Let's say with the diesel they bump that up to 45k or so.

    I can easily see them selling 10k diesels.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,684
    Our local town just adopted their first traffic circle intersection that was originally scheduled for street lights. Talk about a raving success story.

    Roundabouts are great. I got used to them living in Mexico where they are very popular. And they are great places to put bronze statues of local heroes. I see this great web site devoted to promoting Roundabouts.

    http://www.roundaboutsusa.com/photos.html
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,937
    Only 4K Camry hybrids - 3K must have been sold in Seattle. Maybe a diesel Accord would fare better.

    I have no doubt a diesel 6 would have a higher take rate than a diesel Camcord, ESPECIALLY Camry, but a 30% increase via diesel alone might be tough.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,937
    Is Tiguan production ever going to branch out to TN? Would make sense, as I bet a huge amount of its sales are in NA.

    Good point about the perception of Japanese reliability. I remember being promised an Accord diesel several years ago.
  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,351
    I recently saw that of the 2 million Prius sold globally since inception, 25% of all production has gone to California. That's staggering. Never underestimate the allure of the carpool lane.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    In addition, I think there's pent up demand for a Japanese diesel in the US; a lot of people grew up, rightly or wrongly, with the belief that Japanese makes are tops in reliability and have a hard time jumping to an American or Euro brand, diesel or not. With Mazda struggling as an independent, they have little to lose in being first to market. I think its a bold and enlightened move on their part.

    I would say 'rightly' on the first part of your paragraph, and I agree with the rest.

    Back in the day...I wanna say 1987 (in Cda) being the last year diesels were fairly well represented in a varied style of vehicle. And maybe even 85/86 for a broader range still. Not counting GM's horrendous gasoline block V8 'diesel' failure (and I hold GM easily THEE most responsible for NA's negative impression that diesels got back then..and since..I STILL hear guys chatting that they would NEVER own another diesel after the nightmare they had with their old Oldsmobile, or whatever..yes some still live in the dark ages and seem to relish in being ignorantly unaware of progress or change) .......but not counting those we had a fairly impressive array of mostly Japanese sourced diesel engines. Most were 4 cyl and in the beginning, most were also NA'd. We had the diesel Datsun/Nissan p/u with their own built engine, and was a good one. Mazda had their own also, but was being used in their own truck along with Ford's Courier p/u at the time. I think Ford turboed that engine around 86 or 87? Then we also had (and I personally had) the Isuzu built diesel that GM was offering in the S10 p/u. I bought brand spanking new, an 85 extended cab, stick (5sp) with pwr steering/brakes and factory air. It was a RARE beast indeed. It was NA, but I still did a 52.5 mpg (Imp) (so still about 42 US) on an upper New York 600 mile return trip with A/C on both ways. The A/C being on was significant because with it not being turboed, the A/C really pulled her down. In order to pass with any umph at all I remember switching it off for the pass.

    Had that truck been turboed and 4x4, I would have rust checked it faithfully within inches of its life and would still have it to this day. Of course I would have wasted the TERRIBLE bench seat it had.

    FWIW, I used to thrash the poor thing late for work some days due to LA-like TO traffic, (crashes on perfect blue sky, dry road days..go figure) and it still always got between 38 and 42. That was with it rugged practically everywhere I went.

    And Toyota had their terrific 3.4? gee I am forgetting now...NA diesel in their full sized wagon and Jeep style Land Cruisers. I had one..used to get mid 30's with it on yearly average. A fantastic engine..but mine I bought used and suffered terrible rust. It had manual (heavy but still pretty nice) steering, no turbo, and was a 4 speed stick, but top cog was direct. And during those same times, Toyota also offered their inline 6 diesel in the wagon. I demo'd one in the winter on a 100 mile trip and got 24. something with it on winter fuel with cruise set at 90 kph. (55) It was a 4 sp auto, OD...that and the poor mileage was why I didn't buy it. I also owned the Toyota p/u 'turbo' 2.4 diesel with a 4x4 that I looked for for years when trying to replace the memories of my S10. Finally found a really clean one but again was a poor performer mileage-wise. Babying it it still only got 27 Imp. Yet the big 1000 lb heavier and 1 litre larger Land Cruiser coukld get 35 all day long..I ended up selling the p/u to another enthusiast who looked for one like I had. I told him it was not the fuel performer you would think but he wanted it anyway. In defense of the p/u though, I did get a 24 mpg towing a Samurai with a towbar on an uphill basically trip of about 130 miles one way. And that's the killer...it got like 27 going to get the Sam and only a 3 mpg penalty towing it back..

    Anyway, there were others too...Chev also had Isuzu's 1.8 NA diesel in their (pathetic otherwise) Chevettes. This was all back basically in the 80's and all these Japanese engines, while some did not offer the mileage you thought they should..others excelled) were all very good and dependable engines.

    So if NA were to be skeptical about diesels to this day, I think it would be more towards any NA built engine. Like Ford...gawd help them I wouldn't buy one...and not GM either if they built their own.

    Not sure if you guys got the Peugots (sp?) during those early years? But they too, were good engines..alas the cars rusted and were troublesome, but the engines performed well.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    But if Honda did do an Accord diesel and used a 'new and improved' ..ya right.. CVT, and then if it flopped, they would blame it on the diesel instead of the tranny.

    IMO, Not only for slip resistance and longevity of keeping the diesel's extra torque under wraps, but also for the drivability of a proper 6 individual geared auto like the Mazda's 6, would also contribute to its potential success if they dare dip their toes in oil..
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 39,017
    People have been asking for a Tiguan TDI for years now, and I understand why VW doesn't do it

    I wonder if it's because the Tiguan is a "chick car", at least in LA. Maybe diesels are a guy thing?

    The proof could be in the uptake of the Beetle Diesel - even though it's supposedly more masculine now, Beetles still seem to be selling more to women.
  • dave8697dave8697 Posts: 1,487
    We get another new roundabout in town every year. They are great after you suffer immensely during their construction. In about 3 more years, I will break even from the 9 miles per day detour that doubled my work commute from 21 to 40 minutes each way for 6 weeks during construction.
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