What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

fintail

Of course, no numbers of Toyota or hybrid sales in the region, and how they rank far behind the gasser and diesel competition. But I am sure dieselgate can play into the massive collective guilt (via their wonderful generation of 68) of the doddering western European populace to help export pollution via hybrid sales.

gagrice

Toyota does not have any bragging rights in the US with their Prius. Sales are off right at 27% this YTD. Prius sold 45,533 less this YTD than last year.

stever

RAV4 Hybrids are kind of hot though. Friend of ours got one at MSRP a few weeks back. Just gave a Highlander Hybrid tire kicker some advice and TMV on that one is pretty close to MSRP. I'm not keeping track with the yen, but my gut is telling me that Toyota profits must be up pretty good. Be curious to see the year end numbers.

People aren't buying sedans or hatches much, relative to SUVs.

gagrice

I don't think the RAV hybrid is that great. You can spend $10k less on a Ford Escape and get the same mileage out on the road. The Highlander Hybrid costs as much as a luxury diesel SUV. Unless VW cannot get past the EPA and CARB, I will just keep what I have. A big fat check for lying to me would be nice.

ruking1

It's particularly telling that even with massive hype, most favored governments policies, tax credits & write offs , gas hybrid sales, approaching 2 decades have gained precious "little" traction, US & EU markets.

On the other hand, they think vilified diesels (@ 3% to 5% of the PVF ) are multiplying like rabbits & cockroaches even with massive anti diesel sentiments !?

EU markets structurally use a minimum of 60% less oil than the US PVF EVEN being bigger! Any drift to higher % gasoline use is a defacto higher oil consumption shift.

ruking1

Happy New Year ! May 2017 be happy & prosperous to all! May it also bring more 2017/2018 TDI's!

I'm absolutely, positively reaping a TDI range benefit not getting in any to all fuel lines in South Lake Tahoe, CA! This time frame is high ski season & all venues are over flowing with people & cars! The plan is to get ULSD fuel at one of the cheaper stations down off the mountain ! Or we may take trips into inner NV.

We started taking in El Dorado National Forest the (more local) trail (& forest) upgrades. The daughter's new (rescue) one year old hunting/guard dog remains in nirvana having figurative & literal field days! It's great to see them happy, free & wide ranging!

[non-permissible political content removed]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/chevy-0-financing-72-months-134645732.html Trouble in 2016/2017 gasser new car land? Is it a good time to be selling TDI's during this time? Oh yeah! Go Jaguar!

Yup! Cruised on down to Costco, Carson City, NV. Both CHP & NHP had all hands on deck in full holiday "customer service" mode! We were in full yee haw mode in both directions, as a result!

ruking1

The next nine day South Lake Tahoe, CA forecast is for snow!

gagrice

xwesx
This one is for you. I recall you have people that pollute with wood. Far more than any VW TDI.

EPA Tells People In Interior Of Alaska (In Sub-Zero Temperature) To Stop Burning Wood To Keep Warm

http://uschronicle.com/ouso-epa-tells-people-living-interior-alaska-sub-zero-temperature-stop-burning-wood-keep-warm/#

xwesx

Hah!

I don't feel sorry for anyone who chooses to use wood. Just like any other heating source, be it electric (which really would be cost prohibitive), gas, or oil, using wood is a choice that has pros and cons. In many cases (again, application is far more often the primary contributor to emissions than any other factor), the wood users are choosing to use the poorest fuel source and burning it in the dirtiest of methods. How can anyone feel sorry for these people for their inconsideration?

I know Lance, and he's a good representative on the assembly. However, if folks "want to live off the grid," they need to get a whole lot further out into the bush than Fairbanks. This is a city here, and folks who live in a congested area need to make some concessions for the good of all. Not burning wood in a polluting stove (e.g., non-catalytic) during winter inversions is a great start.

We have had a decade to sort out this winter air quality problem, and the people have repeatedly said they want to do nothing about it. Well, this is where "nothing" gets you..... The EPA banging on your door!

ruking1

ruking1 said:

The next nine day South Lake Tahoe, CA forecast is for snow!

It's the winter FULL monte! There are loads of wet snow, high winds, rains, loadss of tourists in cars, CUVs, SUVs, light trucks, motor homes, towed RVs. A good % had traction issues.

Ingress and egress can only be described as an absolute zoo !

We shaved a good 5 miles off the more normal 36 mpg! The winter AC worked like a champ.

ruking1

The mpg -5 shave in part was due to driving by a Camry hybrid driver not fully dialed into the diesel/drive train.

xwesx

ruking1 said:

The mpg -5 shave in part was due to driving by a Camry hybrid driver not fully dialed into the diesel/drive train.

Give the driver another chance!

Slogging through winter roads is brutal on fuel economy (regardless of what you drive!).

ruking1

xwesx said:

ruking1 said:

The mpg -5 shave in part was due to driving by a Camry hybrid driver not fully dialed into the diesel/drive train.

Give the driver another chance!

Slogging through winter roads is brutal on fuel economy (regardless of what you drive!).

Oh yes/yes ! Good points!

We've been friends for years and have routinely driven each other's cars! He gets 32/35 MPG on the (his) Camry hybrid. I'm GUESSING I'd do 38/42 mpg on the (his) Camry hybrid. Driven like a diesel, I'm GUESSING way less mpg!

So given fuelly.coms Camry Hybrid mpg posting, the advantages still goes to diesels, even after "hammering" the diesel. My guess, given the exact same conditions, i.e. caravan, the Camry hybrid mpg would've posted FAR worse! But the mpg/ traction/ safety issues are the cable chains would have had to be R/R'd several times. Even he said he would have taken his TLC. So the real apples to apples comparison would be Camry hybrid vs the VW Jetta/Passat TDI.

A bit off topic, I have the roads literally memorized. Even he was surprised at short bursts when talking him through the twists & turns. (SLO MO, rally like) As a result, guided & unguided there was a fair amount of over/under corrections. Another example, (no snow) where I'd do 90/95, he'd do 75/80.

I probably shouldn't say this, but it's only app 20 to 25 miles from end destination to (mountain roads) normal snow & chain controls. It's pretty sweet! But yes, the traffic was still HORRENDOUS!

andres3

The new Alltrack is rated at 22/30 MPG, or 25 overall. I'd imagine the diesel would be about 10 MPG better overall without losing that much in HP. That's significant.

ruking1

I was puzzled by the # of Subaru's (its' competition) with traction issues? (there were many other makes)

The MB GLK 250 BT has the oem (run flat) Dunlop's. Almost any other choice in the segment would be better!? I'm not a fan of run flats.

kyfdx

ruking1 said:

I was puzzled by the # of Subaru's (its' competition) with traction issues? (there were many other makes)

The MB GLK 250 BT has the oem (run flat) Dunlop's. Almost any other choice in the segment would be better!? I'm not a fan of run flats.

Subarus come with crappy tires, mostly.

ruking1

The other part of my puzzlemen: I saw other Subaru's with cable chains, STILL with traction issues..

xwesx

Hah!

Yeah, there are a fair number of factors at play, not the least of which is the driver. Honestly, a fair number of folks who buy Subaru brand are often either enthusiasts or scared of driving. The majority fall into the latter group, and no amount of vehicular capability is going to cover for those drivers.

Another issue could be weight. The heaviest Subaru comes in at a curb weight of under 3,900#, which is not particularly heavy given the contact area of their tires. On deep, wet snow, this means the car is going to tend to float up a bit, and that can play havoc on traction with all-season tires.

Even on my cars, they were tossing all over the place with the 15" of snow we received last week. They made it through the stuff just fine, but it was a bit of work doing it.

A fun side note: Yesterday afternoon, I pulled a 2015 Ram 2500 out of a snow berm (that's ~7,000# curb weight), going uphill, with my 2008 Forester. That truck was so darned stuck, too. I saw him go in, and it's actually a miracle that he didn't flip the truck. He went from ~55 mph to zero in maybe fifty feet, spinning 180-degrees in the process.

It took several attempts, uphill, into oncoming traffic (when traffic cleared!), but we finally got him out, without any digging. He said, "man, you're a real life-saver, but now I have to tell all my friends that I got pulled out by a Subaru!" LOL

ruking1

Cool beans!

We carry those (10,000 # max capacity, snap) nylon tow belts with hooks. We also carry the normal winter kit with the various etcs. I should carry my 4 gauge battery cables but....

xwesx

ruking1 said:

Cool beans!

We carry those (10,000 # max capacity, snap) nylon tow belts with hooks. We also carry the normal winter kit with the various etcs. I should carry my 4 gauge battery cables but....

Those snatch straps ("kinetic recovery ropes") are really impressive tools. Not only do they allow the tow vehicle to get a running start, but they are also gentle on both the pulling and pulled vehicles!

ruking1

I'm not sure about diesel's/powere trains nexuses. ( measured - 11.1 %, aka 36 mpg vs - 4 = 32 mpg) It would seem the normalacy numbers do track !?

Three "diesel" nexuses : 1. full torque coming on @ lower rpm 2. more torque like model. 3. the obvious one demonstrated by my Camry hybrid friends GLK 250BT driving: minimium of 33% to 65% mpg advantage despite winter A/C operations ( -1 to -3 mpg normally) inclement weather (- 1 to -2 mpg normally) & horrendous traffic conditions (-2 to -5 normally) !

Advantage diesel during inclement weather & extreme traffic conditions. ! The MB GLK 250 BT with "4 matic" was totally sure "footed" under ALL conditions, sans "BLACK" ice.

I typically like to function the ABS's. I also like to induce skids, drifts & spins, which under the conditions would have been inappropriate.

So now that we have fully explain why ULSD fuel cost a little bit more than RUG; with PUG normally costing more than ULSD & RUG, lets motor on!

Incidentally, it should be blatantly obvious that EV advocates in no way shape or form want EV to be (longer term) cheaper than gasoline/ diesel!?

I'm sure we all love the global warming that is currently gripping the country!?

ruking1

The N/S Lake Tahoe, CA area calls for (inclement weather) snow, rain for the next 9 days!

You folks who live 24/seven during the (real) winter in snow sleet and ice might/will get a laugh out of this.
http://tahoe.com/articles/lake-tahoe-winter-driving-tips-chain-requirements

For the clueless, it might be life-saving. But truly if one is scared S---less & needs to go 25 mph or less w/w chains, when it's ok to go 55 mph + : use the extreme right hand lane! You probably still haven't figured out who you all are!? Even if you are going 55 miles an hour plus, you still need to be in the right-hand lane!

(Local based) CHP Ford Expedition Cruisers seemed to have VERY aggressive (narlly) tread AT (all terrain) or SNOW tires.

Folsom, CA

$2.39, $2.61,

ULSD $2.50

ruking1

https://pjmedia.com/trending/2017/01/06/georgia-tech-climatologist-chooses-career-suicide-to-keep-her-scientific-integrity/?ref=yfp

Stifling global warming politics? Can only use PSEUDO science to come to " RIGHT" conclusions?

fintail

Follow the money, that is all.

ruking1

This weekend, up to 18 in of rain is forecasted for the Lake Tahoe, CA area, due to warmer temperates during the day. 1 miles inch of rain Would convert to 1 ft of snow. (Siri query)

houdini1

fintail said:

Follow the money, that is all.

Bingo

ruking1

No less than multi- billionaire ( Siri says $ 62 billion) Warren Buffett has indicated "green (solar, electrical grid, etc.) energy" ONLY makes $ sense ( no blather references to global warming, etc. ) with the multi-layered tax credits/write-offs & other massive governmental, world & markets advantages available to his ilk!? It makes almost no sense to most (small to LARGE) corporations.Even Tesla does not have solar panels. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_plants_in_the_Mojave_Desert

It makes even FAR less sense to individuals!

There is no doubt in my mind that if he ( & others of his ilk) had received those very same ADVANTAGES on the OIL side, we'd probably hear that the renaissance in all things oil was the key to war & 1000 year peace, diease cure, life immortal, green forever!

Getting a "write off" to an acre or less solar/wind installation is micro atomic in size, when guys like him refers to getting "ADVANTAGES" tax credits/write-offs. So for example, a solar farm in the desert is way too small (risky) for him to invest! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_plants_in_the_Mojave_Desert

Indeed the loan is guaranteed by D of E (you the taxpayer) for a little bit less than $2 billion.

Solar installations to solar farms as described in the above article are absolutely hideous ! Sun shows up the majority of 289/365 days in the year (79%)

ruking1

Slow diesel news day !

ULSD $ 2.50. RUG $ 2.45. PUG $ 2.65

Costco, Folsom, CA

As yucky as this sounds, we wont be washing either TDI for the next 12 days ! Luckily most salt or urea wash rain washed off.

ruking1

There were nothing but rains in SJ, CA through Lake Tahoe, CA areas. The local news stations were buzzing with the up to the minute local incidents & diasters!

DI's were put on battery trickle charge cycles. All got up to full/100% charge VERY quickly. I was surprised how fast the GLK 250 BT battery got UP/BACK to 100%!

xwesx

Rain is generally good news for CA these days, so glad to hear it!

Michaell

xwesx said:

Rain is generally good news for CA these days, so glad to hear it!

Not this much. I'm in the Bay Area this week and there is a fair amount of flooding. Rain predicted for the whole week.

gagrice

I have a friend in Napa that posted a picture of the water crossing her driveway. Luckily the house is on a hill above.

gagrice

The famous Redwood tunnel tree got more rain than it could handle and went down.

http://abc7news.com/news/iconic-calaveras-pioneer-cabin-tree-topples-during-storm/1693281/

ruking1

Michaell said:

xwesx said:

Rain is generally good news for CA these days, so glad to hear it!

Not this much. I'm in the Bay Area this week and there is a fair amount of flooding. Rain predicted for the whole week.

I hope your visit goes well ! Perhaps you will see some to a lot of the traffic patterns & roads that make this area the WORST to some of the worst in the nation! The rain intervals will probably skew the perspectives in unknown to very predictable ways.

More longer term ago (2001), I pulled the trigger on a far shorter time & distance commute. ( from 9 miles/35 min) to 25 ft/15 sec) As a result, I'm more @ liberty to see traffic from @ least one different perspective.

I'm surprised, for as lead dog in most to all things high tech, Silicon Valley has not made greater in-roads slashing traffic congestion. Indeed, it is crystal clear to me that this area has GREATLY benefited from LOWER fuel prices, a very "low-tech" solution "green" .

I think leapfrogging traffic congestion is probably going to be Silicon Valley's greatest "killer app" , should they decide it a priority! My wife for example makes extensive use of "dial in" cell/land line meeting software & iPad/pc internet presentation.

So for example, if a person is required to be at a certain work place 5/6 conventional days a week, telecommuting 1 day slashes real traffic 20% to 12%. So * however many folks can = a lot of traffic! This should have produced clear to/& perceptual to measurable (-/negative) results. Yet fuel use has gone UP, by all government data.

It's funny how Google (located in Mountain View, CA) gets slammed (EXTORTED $$'s mainly) by "friendly fire" (Dems, unions, city, county, regional, state: sorry if I've left anyone out) ), for the so called 45 passenger "Google buses" ( to/fro, SF, CA) . Each 45 passenger bus can potentially take 45 passenger cars off the freeways! It uses less fuel. It is probably potentially safer to operate one vehicle versus 45. They vilify being able to work (potentially 45 man hours per 1 hour of bus travel) in the bus during the ride!

The (very local) area where I live is geting a REAL function test of the 100 year flood plain measures, (taken 65 years to 50 years ago) The (local) flood plain measures have recently been upgraded & enhanced, as a BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) right of way less than 75 yards away is being built. This will take BART into San Jose. It will also "ring" the system around the Bay Area! It also had the effect of lifting the requirement for ($600 to $1000 per year) flood plain insurance for the last 5 to ten years.

The property in SLT, CA has had ZERO issues, even as it is located between two lakes!? The fence neighbor by law is responsible for the fence & maintenance between the properties ! I guess I should be thankful for the massive dump of water for the trees on the "forested" lot ! I'm glad I didn't do a massive pine needles cleaning, as per eco conservative policies! The stuff helps prevent erosion & holds water in place ! H

xwesx

That is a some serious water! As long as it is filling the reservoirs, then all is well in the long run.

Beggars can't be choosers!

gagrice

Back to Dieselgate. Seems one unlucky VW exec is in trouble with the FBI. Is this smoke to cover their inept handling of several Terrorist attacks? Always easiest to pick the low hanging fruit.

The FBI arrested Oliver Schmidt on Saturday in Florida and is expected to be arraigned today. Mr. Schmidt worked at Volkswagen’s regulatory compliance office in the United States during a year’s period between 2014 and March 2015. People closely involved in the case like Mr. Schmidt’s lawyers, officials of the Justice Department and FBI spokesperson completely declined to comment regarding the matter. However, industry experts and media officials are expecting some deliberation today.


http://www.thecountrycaller.com/35618-volkswagen-diesel-gate-elongates-fbi-arrests-executive/

fintail

Good use of scarce publicly funded resources. Brave warriors in action.

ruking1

The ground is now saturated, meaning all the H20 craziness will resume in earnest! Another (even BIGGER) wide area storm is on the way!

fintail

We had more than an average day of rain, it must be diesel emissions at work!

gagrice

Seems every time I take my Touareg TDI out it starts raining. I did use some of my $500 dealer money to buy a full set of windshield wipers. Not sure when I will need them. Out today in the rain and they are still like new after 3+ years. Finding things to spend the money on before the end of January is not easy. Did buy a nice sweat shirt with VW 49 on it. To commemorate the first VW in the USA.

ruking1

Diesel emissions cause world peas also!

ruking1

gagrice said:

Seems every time I take my Touareg TDI out it starts raining. I did use some of my $500 dealer money to buy a full set of windshield wipers. Not sure when I will need them. Out today in the rain and they are still like new after 3+ years. Finding things to spend the money on before the end of January is not easy. Did buy a nice sweat shirt with VW 49 on it. To commemorate the first VW in the USA.

Come to think of it, my 5 year old (60,000 miles, 2012 VW Touareg TDI) windshield wiper's are OEM ! The quality shows up in interesting places/components.

The 2014 Mercedes-Benz GLK 250 BT windshield wipers did a stellar 7 hour job (normal range 2.75 to 3.25 hours) coming down out of the mountains during inclement weather. It did drive me crazy flapping for that long, despite efforts to control them.

Yippee! Another massive storm hitting NorCA! The Lake Tahoe, CA area has the full monte going on: blizzard, winter, avalanche, wind, river, flooding, road advisories. Looks like 3 ft of dropped snow!

Got to love all this global warming! Funny that sinking high rise in SF, CA is not getting the first story nor sunken basement underwater like the warm ma cists are claiming will happen! What a bummer! Eco conservative paybacks are not what they are cracked up to be!?

The unions are striking the University of California campuses! Just another global warming day in paradise! ? Shoot & We've just fired up the MB GLK 250 BT, work bound? Magical things these BlueTecs?

xwesx

Hahah. If this link is valid, then where were you guys the last several years! Governor Brown needed you!!!!

My diesel ownership was short, but sweet. I completed the buyback process in Anchorage yesterday, and I was very sad to see my Passat go...

ruking1

Saying goodbye can be hard!? In the mean time, while you solve the link issue,...

I read a yahoo article indicating a 3.0 L TDI for 2018 Ford F-150, no torque #'s. This has been a total no brainer for decades! I'm glad to see it!

The additional issue in another article, but same 2017 F150 topic is a 450 # ft torque 3.6 L gasser.

xwesx

Agreed; a definite no-brainer! Hopefully we will see some percolation of diesel into midsize and large SUVs, too.

ruking1

xwesx said:

Agreed; a definite no-brainer! Hopefully we will see some percolation of diesel into midsize and large SUVs, too.

I was reading the Edmunds.com write up for the 2017 Chevrolet Tahoe. They claim 19 mpg? I'm wondering why GM does not get on the stick and start to implement the 7, 8, 9, 10 speed A/T's?

More on topic: 3.0L, 4.0L, 5.0L or even larger TDI's would be a good start! 30 mpg would be awesome!

ruking1

http://www.dot.ca.gov/cgi-bin/roads.cgi?roadnumber=50&submit=Search

Highway 50 on a South Lake Tahoe critical mountain roadway are doing 1 way CHP guided treks (avalanche control)!

Highway 80 on North Lake Tahoe critical interstate is ...closed Colfax, CA to NV state line!

5 to 7 ft snow predicted at the Lake Tahoe level (6,224 ft) 7 to 10i ft @ higher elevations. Ii

xwesx

Wowza! That's some Fuuuuuun stuff there! It would probably be more enjoyable (and faster) to ski in at this point!

ruking1

It's just anotherr day luxuriating in NorCA's winter wonderlands. . Interstate 80 is closed. Highway 50 is operating under mountain chain controls, sans 4WD. Seems like (verified by Heavenly Valley's trail/snow reports aka 48 in) 4 ft of white stuff fell overnight @ lake level (6,224 ft)

Costco Folsom,CA ULSD $2.50, RUG $2.45, PUG $2.69.

This probably signifies what a slow diesel day it is. The "kids" took the 2009 VW Jetta TDI up to Tahoe & out of the mountains, this past Sunday... sans chains....aka, no traction issues. Booya!

gagrice

Ford is setting the bar high enough to stay king of the Mountain. Anyone for a 3.0L Diesel with a 10 Speed auto?

The 2018 F-150 also adds an available all-new 3.0-liter Power Stroke diesel engine, designed, engineered and tested in-house and paired with the 10-speed automatic transmission. It's the first-ever diesel engine offered for F-150.

Good looking PU truck.




Looks more like the cockpit of an airplane.