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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    Why does VW call that a dry sump transmission? It must use gear oil for gear lubing. I assume the 'dry' part is that the clutch discs run dry, as opposed to being immersed in oil, as in many bike transmissions. As for longevity, usually the immersed type lasts longer. I suspect there must be fewer parasitic losses with dry clutch use. I also wonder what happens to the clutch wear dust in a DSG? I guess it has a bell housing similar to a traditional std tranny. Yet any cross section pic I have seen it seems that the area where clutches engage are sealed, and you would think that dust debris would muddy the many servo operations etc.

    Is this DSG trans considered to be less maintenance demanding than a hydraulic auto? Do they have longer life-expectancy predictions than a traditional auto?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,476
    edited August 2013
    Perhaps the way I wrote it could have conveyed more information. Current DSG is a 6 speed (shiftable) "wet" sump. I read a few articles saying VW is working on a DSG with 8 speed (shiftable also) AND it is destined to be of dry sump design. Current technical details, I do not think are out.

    Current DSG has an oem recommended 40,000 miles fluid AND filter change. It is not unlike an oil change, albeit less accessible. It does take specific synthetic fluids, filter and a special tool or two ( if one DIY's). So (swag ONLY) the DRY SUMP will have a much longer to life time shelf life. Now LIFE ( 6speed M/T and 8 speed A/T) is more my language. :shades: This 40k miles scheduled maintenance item seems to be a source of gas and can be a deal breaker for some. Actually, I was skeptical at first. For the gas it caused, VW stepped up and slapped a 10 year/100,000 miles DSG ONLY warranty. The wife and commute buddy wanted an automatic. They both love the 09 Jetta with DSG. Me? Jury needs 340,000 more miles to decide. :confuse: I'd be happy with 300k to 500k with no DSG breakdown. :surprise: I would be just fine with a 6 speed manual, ala MINUS - $1,100 to boot.

    So if you are ready for a TMI between the 6 speed DSG and the 8 speed A/T, I can follow up with another post. :shades:
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    edited August 2013
    yes please

    Also, regarding the 40k interval, they must impose a time limit too? That one is the one that always sticks in my craw, as I usually run out of time long before miles. And if you don't do the required maintenance interval on time, they can use that as an excuse to disallow wty in the future if you are unfortunate enough to have a premature failure of some sort.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,476
    edited August 2013
    To answer your first question, it seems strictly to be mileage driven. NO, not to my knowledge on the time limit for DSG fluid change. As you know, a A/T, DSG is more of a closed system and is not subject to the byproducts (of combustion, etc) as in motor oil. I know the (wet sump) DSG does generate some waste byproducts of a dual clutch system, hence a filter (looks like a mini motor oil filter).

    So the TMI is BOTH (DSG & A/T) can be UP/DOWN shiftable. Combined with the NO fuel drawn on downgrade, I use (both) to maintain space cushion (downshift primarily, up shift to take road transitions, throttle only if the road transition calls for it) , and the BETTER mpg really takes care of itself (due to no fuel draw) . I do know that if I was more glued to the tach, I can probably GREATLY improve on the 44 mpg (Jetta) and 39 mpg (Touareg). There are a few spin off consequences. I use brakes far less (almost exponentially less) and because people @ my six freak out not seeing predictable brake lamps, tend to follow MUCH farther back.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    "Twin Power Turbo"

    So it would suggest that BMW is also twin turbo'ing their 4 cyl. There is a common theme happening here. Big power and torque from relatively small displacements with the use of twin turbos and white handkerchief type exhaust emissions at the tailpipe by using DEF fluid in those smaller displacements also.

    I'm going to predict that VW will revive new spec capabilities for their TDI in Golf/Jetta/Passat use, by going the DEF route also. In the beginning, there was this perception that "oh no...I gotta buy DEF too? That will erase my fuel savings and be an extra annoyance to boot." I'm sure MB charging $80 to $100. for a DEF service didn't help with this misperception. So FF a couple years (18 months?) and we are starting to learn that using DEF is not only not expensive, it is also infrequent enough that it can't really be considered much of an inconvenience either, unless you are easily perturbed. I think placing the fill pipe beside the fuel fill area is a good route to go also, (under the hood would be best, IMO) although I wonder if BMW might regret the font style choice of that % figure behind the 8 on the fuel cap. (referencing max ratio of biodiesel).
    I had to get my 3.25 glasses before I could see that it said "Max 8%" not Max 87...as in 87 octane.. :sick:

    They could also offer an upscale performance option in the Passat and Golf by offering AWD by twin turbo'ing their present 2.0 dump the burning of diesel fuel to burn off particulates in the cat by using DEF also. And if they were really smart, they'd offer the Passat with that same pkg as a wagon. One can hope..
    MB will probably beat them to it tho with the C250..
    Good times ahead..
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    Well that is great to know! I think even with crankcase oil change intervals, when they say 7-10000 miles or 6 months to a year what ever comes first, it is an overkill make work project for them (the dealers) if someone literally only does 2500 miles, each trip at least 30 minutes run time, so IOWs, the engine being brought right up to full operting temps even in the winter, yet say that you should replace that perfectly good oil after 6 months, is just a get-outta-wty-claim excuse later if you don't follow their schedule closely, so not having a time limit always piques my interest with some of these maintenance chores. I respect that.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,769
    30 some years ago I used to put about a quarter gallon of gasoline in when I filled up my diesel in the winter to prevent frozen fuel lines. Never gave me a problem.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    What vehicle? How many miles did you put on it before parting with it?

    I'd love to see the look on their face at VW or MB when you asked if it was ok to mix gas with ULSD at a 4:1 ratio, lol..

    A stove oil mix with D2 is a much better way to fend of waxing. Engine longevity-wise at least.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,769
    Mercedes 240D, but I think you misread my post. I said a quarter GALLON, not a quarter tank !!!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,476
    edited August 2013
    In one of the so called "environmental" states, the electricity portion prices of 131-200% of baseline is .31114 cents per Kwh ! In my case, a plug in electric car would get billed at THE HIGHEST rates even as the continued and boring clarion call is to consume LESS electricity, albeit along with PENALTIES !!!

    Its hard to consume LESS electrical energy, when one consumes MORE electrical energy !? Or, ... is that a DUH... they hope you do not see?

    So when plug in electrical Kwh are figured @ 8 cents (or less), 31+ cents is 389% MORE. NO good deeds go unpunished and unpenalized ! :sick: :lemon:

    On the other side (of the bill) it is equally obvious why there are little to NONE, natural gas vehicles ! @ $1.00072 per therm. This is on a 112 % mark up !! And we vilify the oil companies (Shell, Chevron, etc) for making 9 cents on the dollar (in a good year) !!??? :lemon:
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    Oh..yes..you are correct..phew..

    Still though...personally I'd have a bit of a hand shake as I was diluting my (apprx 10 Imp gallon tank if memory serves?) with gas.. :blush:

    Nowadays you can usually start to see your mpg progressively fall like clockwork starting in Sept (ya they seem to start early on the 49th) and get lower and lower come Nov. By then they got us on full-on winter fuel.

    When I last had my diesels, I used to buy up summer fuel in jerry cans and do my own mix depending on the wx we were having at the time. I musta been getting my ratios right cuz have never had a waxing issue yet..touch wood..

    But nowadays, I think that most new tech uses fuel line heaters present even at filters, not only to assist cold wx starting, but as part of the normal emission and mpg expectation systems.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    In the Arctic all we could get was number one diesel, AKA kerosene and JetA. That was to avoid gelling. Ran fine, not sure how good the mileage was. mostly short 2-3 mile trips.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    I think there would be a quite a noticeable efficiency hit on D1, if you ever checked it up there. No free rides..even with a diesel.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,206
    No free rides..even with a diesel.

    That's why bunker fuel (for ships) needs to be heated to even flow.

    It's all relative.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    Our mechanic filled the trucks each morning from our gravity feed tank. No one worried about how much was being used. It was oil that paid our wages.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,916
    Don't forget the zero-mpg idling time. That was what - September 15 to June 1? :shades:

    Really should be looking at gallons per mile.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,476
    edited August 2013
    VW T TDI = .03125 gal., :confuse: translation 4 oz, :confuse: translation 32 mpg. ;) So here is a good one, if you are trying to keep awake while heading down the desert highway, what percentage over .03125 gal does it take to run the A/C? :sick: Diesels are also normally express in operation per hour.

    So you know why the Hubble Telescope had to be fixed (in space no less) right? Some engineer or groups of them did calc 's in metric and didn't translate to ENGRISH measures ! Or was that the other way around? :sick:

    Looks like we are setting up those two ROGUE agents from Cincinatti for the fall? BAD VIDEO ! :P
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,267
    The folks I've talked to about summer vs. winter diesel efficiency state that the seasonal difference is significant (~35%). Seat of the pants: Given that all the gasoline vehicles I use tend to be ~20% different by season, I'd attribute around 15% (if not a little more) to the fact that D1 has less energy per gallon than D2.

    Of course, the easier way to do that would be to look up the BTU difference between the two, but that would require a little research, and I'm not up for that right now..... :P
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    Got to the dealer 2:45 and it was sitting out front ready to go. Salesman spent hour and 45 minutes showing us all the different gadgets including linking my wife's old Cell phone. It was running most of the time with the low fuel indicator on. Had 38 miles when we picked it up. They trucked it from AZ. I think this saddle brown is lighter than the other one we looked at. My wife went over every inch of the outside looking for dings, dents or chips. It is clean. No flaws or chips in the glass. When we were about done with orientation he said let's drive across the street and fill it up. That was a first for me on new vehicles including the Passat TDI I bought in Portland. One tire was over pressure one pound so we swung back through the shop and the Salesman adjusted it. What a pleasure dealing with VW of Kearney Mesa.

    By contrast when we bought the new Sequoia it was basically handing us the keys and a handshake. That Toyota dealer is out of business. I found a flaw in the glass when we got home and Toyota would not fix it. Tailgate lifts never worked well and they would not replace. Good riddance to Toyota. My Wife's GD is loving it as a kid hauler. It is a big safe SUV and still under the 7 year warranty I bought. I wish her well with it.

    The trip home from the dealer was hell. If I had to fight that kind of traffic every day going to work and coming home I would slit my Wrist. Or look for a job elsewhere. Oh, I guess that was what I did do because of stinking traffic in 1970.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,916
    edited August 2013
    Kewl, and you even got a free tank of gas fuel. :shades:

    Please take a few minutes and visit the Dealer Ratings and Reviews link under the Car Reviews tab above and write up a review. Thanks!

    What'd you do, get on the 805 or something going home?
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