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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 39,993
    The second pic looks like one of my minivan roads.:D

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  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Yes, it is a diesel. Understand this, at 750 miles, a very small sample. And yes, the EPA numbers for a Cruse eco are within 10% of the diesel.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    On the mpg issue alone, the initial mpg usually takes a longer mileage to get better, than a gasser. However from the git go mpg is usually better. That is in addition to folks understanding and implementing driving the diesel and now increasingly, the transmission in accordance with its parameters. So how are you liking it?
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 39,993
    edited October 2013
    I'm still amazed that my lifetime mpg keeps going up and the van has ~193k on it. I figured it'd level off at 90k and start sliding.

    August's Car and Driver has a comparison on the Jetta TDI and Cruze diesel. The manufacturers probably wish they would have left off the "rolling coal" photo with the article though.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    edited October 2013
    So the real question, in your case would be how many more mpg would a diesel like model van start off with? Fuelly and fuel economy.gov lists them for the 03 TDI and gassers 1.8 T and 2.0. They also list a 6 cylinder. The cents per mile driven savings (at todays prices) is almost staggering using diesel. Mine is a puppy compared to yours (186,000 miles) .

    Since we have nothing to compare the Cruze with, I would say VW did pretty well with all the decontenting starting in 2010. If I were looking to get another Jetta TDI I might reconsider after reading that article. Right now I have an ad blue and two with no ad blue.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 39,993
    edited October 2013
    Lifetime mpg on the gasser is 21.66. I presume a diesel moving a box would do ~30 - what's that, 50% better? I don't track gas prices but I've burned 8912 gallons and that's a staggering number (to me anyway) at $3 a gallon ($26,763 - about $4k more than we paid for the van). Just another reason to downsize to a hatch or wagon and aim for 40 mpg.

    I saw the print edition of C&D at the docs earlier today but my wife got finished with her eye exam and I never actually read the comparison. The photo stuck with me though.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    They seemed to wring out both vehicles quite well. If I was going for a Sedan I would probably get the Passat for all the extra room in back. And the real world mileage is better with the Passat than the Jetta. Not sure why. I am glad Chevy has jumped into the fray. Anyone looking should give it a go.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    edited October 2013
    I think with the "marks" on both, it is almost a toss up. I think the article is good at fleshing out the issues. Of course add to that, personal preferences. But then on the other hand I just got 2 local dealers advertisements about ZERO down and ZERO percentage and a list of other incentives.

    I used to be a skeptic about Ad Blue. Now if it was a choice between having it or not, I would still be in the NOT camp. However given current regulations, it is pretty apparent the use of Ad Blue gives @ least an mpg advantage.

    I am not put off in the least about (Chevrolet's) rear drum brakes. Given some of the issues on VW's about REAR disc brakes, not only is Chevrolet being proactive about addressing the (American) issue, but rear drum brakes are both cheaper and last longer. (given the issue).

    While off topic, the rear drum brakes on the Honda Civic are swagged to go a minimum of 250,000 miles. So what would be a full consumption issue on the Civic is cut literally @ least in half.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 39,993
    Who's doing the 0/0 - Chevy or VW?

    I'm in the amen corner with you on rear drums.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    edited October 2013
    ..."Who's doing the 0/0 - Chevy or VW?"...

    VW is doing the 0/0, and the incentives.

    There is actually a back story to Chevrolet/GM dealers in this area. I didn't get the Z06 in the immediate local area. Three local area's dealers were either forced out or went Chapter 11, when GM went through its Chapter 11. So while I am sure there is a now (going on) #4, I haven't kept up with it and have been using an Indy. One side benefit is the owner when I go likes to get me out in his latest power and handling upgrade projects (normally other clients cars) . Some of these machines are just plain scary.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    edited October 2013
    In line with the mpg taking a lot longer to get better with diesels than like model gassers, I posted 34 mpg (computer) . There was relatively little traffic and it posted 37 mpg for 101 or so miles (down out of the mountains) where it got lost @ 34 mpg for the rest of the trip. So 33.6 mpg for the round trip (420 miles)

    The interesting anomaly was being able to "resume speeds" after new tires break in. There were also road work delays in the mountains. My swag would have been a LOSS of mpg even for a downgrade leg.
  • ikedcikedc Posts: 5
    these dsg tranys can be fun especially on down hills,shift into neutral. engine will of course coast at 800rpm . when you slow or put brakes on the engine will slow the car and maintain rpms. I have saved a lot of trany shifts in my 05.5 tgi jetta dsg----272000mi no trany service. I also use my dsg to lug up hill contrary to some that like to keep the r's up.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    edited October 2013
    ..."I also use my dsg to lug up hill contrary to some that like to keep the r's up."...

    I think this is harder to understand for those that have not driven a diesel and actually a lot of diesel drivers have issues implementing this. Normally this works better for a stick shift. One UP shifts to use the torque band better. One would normally downshift for a gasser stick shift. On the DSG (unless you use the manual sequential gear SHIFT gate) is really programmed to shift at the so called "correct" points.

    Another advantage is to keep the engine in GEAR. When you do put it in neutral there is a cumulative fuel draw (.2 gal per hour) vs a "NO FUEL DRAW".

    Now i personally do not shift the DSG as much as the VW TDI's A/T, as the fluid interval change is "LIFETIME" vs 40,000 miles DSG oil and filter change. However it is encouraging that there are some DSG's with 272,000 miles !!! So in that sense, I can see that it really does not wear as fast as I have been led to believe. I also will change the DSG filter and fluid @ the 65k to 70k miles range.
  • ohenryxohenryx Posts: 285
    I believe the recommended fluid change interval on the DSG is and always has been 40k miles. The 6 speed torque converter automatic is a different story. My 2008 Passat, with the 09G automatic, is supposed to be a "sealed unit", never requiring service. Newer model VWs with the same transmission are supposed to have the fluid changed (but not the filter) every 40k miles. The dealer recently serviced my transmission as part of a recall (for a solenoid I believe).
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    edited October 2013
    It would seem the OEM recommended DSG interval for (older) Passat is the same @ 40,000 miles. How are you liking the 09G A/T?
  • ohenryxohenryx Posts: 285
    100.5k and still shifting smoothly. The car looks like new and drives like new. Still on the original set of brakes.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    edited October 2013
    Yours' might be an(normal) example of what I have been saying all along. A (any actually) passenger vehicle should be able to go to 100,000/120,000 miles, aka "first major tune up" with "normal scheduled" maintenance. Any unscheduled maintenance (warranty/otherwise work) is usually the subject of reliability and durability surveys !

    For 120,000 miles (first major tune up) Fuel Economy .gov lists 09 Jetta TDI @ 39.4, mpg (ULSD@ $3.99), 2.0 T @28.4 mpg (PUG@ $3.75), 2.5 L mpg @26.0 mpg (RUG@ 3.51), this would put consumption and cost (current corner store prices @):
    1. 3,046 gals ULSD = $12,152.
    2. 4,225 gals PUG = $15,845.
    3. 4,615 gals RUG = $16,200.

    respectively.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    (Follow up post due to Edmunds.com server lock out due to updating)

    So some reasonable expectations might be: (with reasonable care and to the hosts issue of (lack of) BOREDOM)

    1. 2nd & 3rd cycles (of 100k to 120k miles) with normal scheduled maintenance

    2. SOME unscheduled maintenance.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,701
    edited October 2013
    I read this in passing in a Yahoo.com article, so I did not save a link.

    In fact, app 40% of the US passenger vehicle fleet is 10 + years old. Basically it was one fact offered in its premise, that there was a pretty heavy (structural) European market slow down. This casts a LONG shadow on US markets. The US market current MY surge (projected sales of 16M + vehicles) is/was due to low interest rates and a portion of that was to replace a portion of the 10+ years segment. So if the 2011 PVF is @ 257.5 M, 40% or = 103 M vehicles are 10 years +old.

    In contrast, European market cars acquisition and operating costs are more, despite availability of much more fuel efficient cars (US markets). The PVF is app 270 M vehicles and the average drivers yearly mileage is app 9,000 miles vs US market averags of 12,000 to 15,000 miles or 34% to 67% more miles per year.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 39,993
    edited October 2013
    We've got a long thread going about aging fleet and surging sales over in Go Green By Driving It 'Til The Wheels Fall Off, but the EU angle didn't come up. That's probably helping keep prices down in the US and helping to push our sales, since we have easy credit again.

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