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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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  • carboy21carboy21 Posts: 760
    edited November 2015
    The only reason folks buy German vehicles is as a status symbol over the Lexus, Infinity, etc competition. They buy into the myth of "German engineering" and the illogical notion that they think others will think of them as "smart and sophisticated" if they're seen buying a German vehicle vice American or Japanese.

    And those with German ancestry. Those 'superior race' genes :open_mouth:

    If Toyota cars are considered appliances then the VW cars are like grandfathers appliances :smile:
  • carboy21carboy21 Posts: 760
    edited November 2015
    II am so glad I got rid of that gas hog. And it has Nothing on the Touareg TDI but a bit bigger. The VW is faster, handles better, stops faster, more comfortable, and averages 11 MPG more over the last 26,000 miles. And it cost a couple thousand less to buy.

    Touareg is smaller then a 4Runner, and no comparison to Sequoia. Apples to Oranges comparison between Seqouia and Touareg. You might be better off comparing it with a real SUV like 4Runner.


  • fintailfintail Posts: 38,427
    edited November 2015
    You've seen what Toyolex and Nisfiniti vehicles look like these days, right?

    I suppose the only reason why folks buy Lexus and Infiniti vehicles over Toyota and Nissan etc is because of the status symbol desire, and that others will think of them as "smart and sophisticated" if they are seen buying a higher priced brand.

    Not everyone wants a Prius.
    bobw3 said:


    The only reason folks buy German vehicles is as a status symbol over the Lexus, Infinity, etc competition. They buy into the myth of "German engineering" and the illogical notion that they think others will think of them as "smart and sophisticated" if they're seen buying a German vehicle vice American or Japanese.

  • fintailfintail Posts: 38,427
    Funny thing is, some people believe that. Usually, they have never driven said cars.
    carboy21 said:


    And those with German ancestry. Those 'superior race' genes :open_mouth:

    If Toyota cars are considered appliances then the VW cars are like grandfathers appliances :smile:

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,698

    Wow, I have been largely away from Edmonds for a while. I used to make sure and carve a half hour-to an hour out daily to come on here.

    And now I'm catching up a tad. One of the things I'm now remembering is gagrice's love of VW's and diesels. I don't pretend ta know diddly about diesels except that....smell. Ooh-ooo that smell. Cant'tcha smell that smell?

    Need ta edumacate myself on them and this thread is probably as good as anywhere ta do that. Though as things pick up here in Dodge City at work I'll need the Reader's Digest version moreso than the college textbook on diesels.

    Lastly, I know someone in here can update me on what's going on U.S. release-wise with the VW Bulli. Gas engines and diesel options both available? Is the Bulli even going ta be built? Anywhere?

    I think the VW Bulli concept could have evolved into the T6. Which of course is not available in the USA. VW seems to rely on Audi and Porsche to extract US dollars. Both brands sell extremely well in the USA. With dieselgate fresh in our minds, the less expensive diesels are off the table for now.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,698
    carboy21 said:

    II am so glad I got rid of that gas hog. And it has Nothing on the Touareg TDI but a bit bigger. The VW is faster, handles better, stops faster, more comfortable, and averages 11 MPG more over the last 26,000 miles. And it cost a couple thousand less to buy.

    Touareg is smaller then a 4Runner, and no comparison to Sequoia. Apples to Oranges comparison between Seqouia and Touareg. You might be better off comparing it with a real SUV like 4Runner.


    Funny you mention that. Grand daughter that bought our Sequoia, got rid of her 4Runner. Says the Seqouia is much nicer. She loves the Sequoia except the little things that break and the 15-16 MPG. Her 4Runner used the same amount of gas.

    The comparison is for a vehicle that is great to travel cross country in. The ONLY advantage to the Seqouia was more room to haul STUFF. Having to buy gas every 300 miles vs 600 was a pain. After 36,000 miles in the Sequoia and 26,000 miles in the Touareg TDI the winner is very clear. Not a chance I would buy another Toyota. I do have a long history with Toyota. Buying a new Toyota Land Cruiser in 1964. That vehicle had more problems than any new vehicle I have ever owned. Valves and timing gear 3 times each in 50k miles.

    I swore I would never buy another until we settled on the 2007 Sequoia. Not likely to buy another Toyota in my lifetime. By the way the 4Runner is butt ugly.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,698
    fintail said:

    You've seen what Toyolex and Nisfiniti vehicles look like these days, right?

    I suppose the only reason why folks buy Lexus and Infiniti vehicles over Toyota and Nissan etc is because of the status symbol desire, and that others will think of them as "smart and sophisticated" if they are seen buying a higher priced brand.

    Not everyone wants a Prius.

    bobw3 said:


    The only reason folks buy German vehicles is as a status symbol over the Lexus, Infinity, etc competition. They buy into the myth of "German engineering" and the illogical notion that they think others will think of them as "smart and sophisticated" if they're seen buying a German vehicle vice American or Japanese.

    I just don't see what people see in Japanese vehicles. I will say my Nissan PU is better than the Ford Ranger it replaced and superior to the Toyota Tacoma in every aspect. But it is nothing more than a utility appliance.

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 17,717
    edited November 2015
    fintail said:

    You've seen what Toyolex and Nisfiniti vehicles look like these days, right?

    I suppose the only reason why folks buy Lexus and Infiniti vehicles over Toyota and Nissan etc is because of the status symbol desire, and that others will think of them as "smart and sophisticated" if they are seen buying a higher priced brand.

    Not everyone wants a Prius.

    bobw3 said:


    The only reason folks buy German vehicles is as a status symbol over the Lexus, Infinity, etc competition. They buy into the myth of "German engineering" and the illogical notion that they think others will think of them as "smart and sophisticated" if they're seen buying a German vehicle vice American or Japanese.

    You know, I have to commend you for having such a logical response. The quoted posters original 5/6 paragraph response,op/ed, while his opinion, was, is, remains utter inflammatory crap!

    I think also if Toyota Prius was so popular, it would have emerged from the "niche market" status, the original poster criticizes German TDI's for!!!

    It also woul have sold more than 4 M units world wide in 15 years.

    I agree with you, not everybody wants a Prius! Indeed that's why Toyota probably funded this $$ losing model, so they could sell all the other Toyota US gas models. Lots of folks LOVE gasser Toyota pick up trucks, for example. I have already gone on record stating that I would've probably bought a TLC TDI, if they had them in US markets. Knowing what I know about both, I am happy with the US markets diesel choices.



  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 53,751
    I was never fond of the "rich people are stupid" argument. If everyone and his pet monkey has been copying BMW this last decade (and they have), then BMW must have something that the other automakers wish to emulate. One has to admit that the "driving dynamics" have improved quite a bit in both American and Japanese cars, and I think the Germans deserve credit for inspiring that.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • carboy21carboy21 Posts: 760
    gagrice said:

    carboy21 said:

    II am so glad I got rid of that gas hog. And it has Nothing on the Touareg TDI but a bit bigger. The VW is faster, handles better, stops faster, more comfortable, and averages 11 MPG more over the last 26,000 miles. And it cost a couple thousand less to buy.

    Touareg is smaller then a 4Runner, and no comparison to Sequoia. Apples to Oranges comparison between Seqouia and Touareg. You might be better off comparing it with a real SUV like 4Runner.


    Funny you mention that. Grand daughter that bought our Sequoia, got rid of her 4Runner. Says the Seqouia is much nicer. She loves the Sequoia except the little things that break and the 15-16 MPG. Her 4Runner used the same amount of gas.

    The comparison is for a vehicle that is great to travel cross country in. The ONLY advantage to the Seqouia was more room to haul STUFF. Having to buy gas every 300 miles vs 600 was a pain. After 36,000 miles in the Sequoia and 26,000 miles in the Touareg TDI the winner is very clear. Not a chance I would buy another Toyota. I do have a long history with Toyota. Buying a new Toyota Land Cruiser in 1964. That vehicle had more problems than any new vehicle I have ever owned. Valves and timing gear 3 times each in 50k miles.

    I swore I would never buy another until we settled on the 2007 Sequoia. Not likely to buy another Toyota in my lifetime. By the way the 4Runner is butt ugly.
    Talking of personal anecdotal experiences, I have a 1999 Toyota 4Runner with 260 k odd miles on the clock. Never gave me any trouble, Just routine maintenance and fluid changes. Just this year after trouble free 250k miles, I pro-actively refurbished it with a new radiator, shocks and coils and lower and upper ball joints to give it a further new lease of life as I intend to run it to the ground over next 5 years :)
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,698
    The reviews on the 4Runner are not that flattering. C&D ranked them 7th out of 8 SUVs tested. Touareg was 3rd. Towing is almost a joke with the 4Runner. And when is Toyota going to get with the times and dump that 5 speed transmission? MT says time to dump outdated drive train. Do something about mediocre interior.

    Drive both and you would never be satisfied with the 4Runner.
  • carboy21carboy21 Posts: 760
    gagrice said:

    The reviews on the 4Runner are not that flattering. C&D ranked them 7th out of 8 SUVs tested. Touareg was 3rd. Towing is almost a joke with the 4Runner. And when is Toyota going to get with the times and dump that 5 speed transmission? MT says time to dump outdated drive train. Do something about mediocre interior.

    Drive both and you would never be satisfied with the 4Runner.

    Agreed,
    but it is the most genuine off roader ever made , barring the Land Cruiser. People don't buy it for its aesthetics and beauty. IT is bought by those who want ruggedness and longetivity. There are many 20 year old 4Runners still running in the USA then any other SUV.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 51,906
    edited November 2015
    >It also would have sold more than 4 M units world wide in 15 years.

    Global cumulative sales for the Prius nameplate, when the Prius liftback is included, add up to 5,264,307 units through July 2015. Sales started in Japan in '97. Total Toyota hybrid sales are around 8 million. (Wikipedia)

    The Scion brand has been around since '04 and I bet it hasn't sold 1 million cumulatively (176k in '06, 68k in '13). That's the losing model model.

    Chattanooga is now making 85% of all Passats, and annual production numbers are pushing 600,000.

    Moderator - Buying questions? Please include city or zip code and trim you are shopping, FWD or AWD, etc.

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 17,717
    edited November 2015
    stever said:

    >It also would have sold more than 4 M units world wide in 15 years.

    Global cumulative sales for the Prius nameplate, when the Prius liftback is included, add up to 5,264,307 units through July 2015. Sales started in Japan in '97. Total Toyota hybrid sales are around 8 million. (Wikipedia)

    The Scion brand has been around since '04 and I bet it hasn't sold 1 million cumulatively (176k in '06, 68k in '13). That's the losing model model.

    Chattanooga is now making 85% of all Passats, and annual production numbers are pushing 600,000.

    Toyota, 18 years later STILL does not break out how much they make per Prius car.

    For all you diesel haters that think I am ANTI gas hybrid, I considered the 2003/2004, putting app 400 miles on a 2004 Prius demonstrator.. @ that time it was $7,000 more than the diesel (best deals on both). Combined with getting 43/44 mpg Prius,50 mpg VW J TDI, and liking the TDI's highway performance, the numbers were a no brainer in the commute slough.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 51,906
    edited November 2015
    Some companies keep their numbers pretty close. I don't know that GM "confirms" all those reports that they make $17,000 in profit on every Suburban they sell.

    Rumor is that Toyota makes $3,100 US on every Prius sold. (PriusChat)

    Mr. Lutz claims that the Volt was close to breaking even back in 2012. (Forbes)

    Moderator - Buying questions? Please include city or zip code and trim you are shopping, FWD or AWD, etc.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,698
    carboy21 said:

    gagrice said:

    carboy21 said:

    II am so glad I got rid of that gas hog. And it has Nothing on the Touareg TDI but a bit bigger. The VW is faster, handles better, stops faster, more comfortable, and averages 11 MPG more over the last 26,000 miles. And it cost a couple thousand less to buy.

    Touareg is smaller then a 4Runner, and no comparison to Sequoia. Apples to Oranges comparison between Seqouia and Touareg. You might be better off comparing it with a real SUV like 4Runner.


    Funny you mention that. Grand daughter that bought our Sequoia, got rid of her 4Runner. Says the Seqouia is much nicer. She loves the Sequoia except the little things that break and the 15-16 MPG. Her 4Runner used the same amount of gas.

    The comparison is for a vehicle that is great to travel cross country in. The ONLY advantage to the Seqouia was more room to haul STUFF. Having to buy gas every 300 miles vs 600 was a pain. After 36,000 miles in the Sequoia and 26,000 miles in the Touareg TDI the winner is very clear. Not a chance I would buy another Toyota. I do have a long history with Toyota. Buying a new Toyota Land Cruiser in 1964. That vehicle had more problems than any new vehicle I have ever owned. Valves and timing gear 3 times each in 50k miles.

    I swore I would never buy another until we settled on the 2007 Sequoia. Not likely to buy another Toyota in my lifetime. By the way the 4Runner is butt ugly.
    Talking of personal anecdotal experiences, I have a 1999 Toyota 4Runner with 260 k odd miles on the clock. Never gave me any trouble, Just routine maintenance and fluid changes. Just this year after trouble free 250k miles, I pro-actively refurbished it with a new radiator, shocks and coils and lower and upper ball joints to give it a further new lease of life as I intend to run it to the ground over next 5 years :)
    Lucky you, this is what my son's 4Runner looked like at 130k miles. Not even close to the VW 12 year rust warranty.


  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 17,717
    edited November 2015
    stever said:

    Some companies keep their numbers pretty close. I don't know that GM "confirms" all those reports that they make $17,000 in profit on every Suburban they sell.

    Rumor is that Toyota makes $3,100 US on every Prius sold. (PriusChat)

    Mr. Lutz claims that the Volt was close to breaking even back in 2012. (Forbes)

    More VW & diesel advantages ! You were just confirming that I made a good choice back in 2003/2004 buying the 2003 VW Jetta TDI. Given the posted article on Prius battery replacement, I would have been really bummed, IF I had to spend $5,000 to get a new battery. (depending on warranty @ 100 k/ 150 k)

    If the rumors are true that Prius makes $3,100 per unit and VW makes approximately $850 per unit .... There is no doubt in my mind that the VW diesel was, is, remains the better choice.

    I am not sure how GM's number have nexus with Toyota's numbers?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 17,717
    edited November 2015
    gagrice said:

    carboy21 said:

    gagrice said:

    carboy21 said:

    II am so glad I got rid of that gas hog. And it has Nothing on the Touareg TDI but a bit bigger. The VW is faster, handles better, stops faster, more comfortable, and averages 11 MPG more over the last 26,000 miles. And it cost a couple thousand less to buy.

    Touareg is smaller then a 4Runner, and no comparison to Sequoia. Apples to Oranges comparison between Seqouia and Touareg. You might be better off comparing it with a real SUV like 4Runner.


    Funny you mention that. Grand daughter that bought our Sequoia, got rid of her 4Runner. Says the Seqouia is much nicer. She loves the Sequoia except the little things that break and the 15-16 MPG. Her 4Runner used the same amount of gas.

    The comparison is for a vehicle that is great to travel cross country in. The ONLY advantage to the Seqouia was more room to haul STUFF. Having to buy gas every 300 miles vs 600 was a pain. After 36,000 miles in the Sequoia and 26,000 miles in the Touareg TDI the winner is very clear. Not a chance I would buy another Toyota. I do have a long history with Toyota. Buying a new Toyota Land Cruiser in 1964. That vehicle had more problems than any new vehicle I have ever owned. Valves and timing gear 3 times each in 50k miles.

    I swore I would never buy another until we settled on the 2007 Sequoia. Not likely to buy another Toyota in my lifetime. By the way the 4Runner is butt ugly.
    Talking of personal anecdotal experiences, I have a 1999 Toyota 4Runner with 260 k odd miles on the clock. Never gave me any trouble, Just routine maintenance and fluid changes. Just this year after trouble free 250k miles, I pro-actively refurbished it with a new radiator, shocks and coils and lower and upper ball joints to give it a further new lease of life as I intend to run it to the ground over next 5 years :)
    Lucky you, this is what my son's 4Runner looked like at 130k miles. Not even close to the VW 12 year rust warranty.


    Relative to the VW Touareg TDI (like mileage) , the TLC's are/were far fussier!

    IF I were to F/F to what I know today (about the two brands), I am not so sure I would chose Toyota again. (even if they had diesel models)
  • carboy21carboy21 Posts: 760
    edited November 2015
    gagrice said:
    II am so glad I got rid of that gas hog. And it has Nothing on the Touareg TDI but a bit bigger. The VW is faster, handles better, stops faster, more comfortable, and averages 11 MPG more over the last 26,000 miles. And it cost a couple thousand less to buy. Touareg is smaller then a 4Runner, and no comparison to Sequoia. Apples to Oranges comparison between Seqouia and Touareg. You might be better off comparing it with a real SUV like 4Runner.
    Funny you mention that. Grand daughter that bought our Sequoia, got rid of her 4Runner. Says the Seqouia is much nicer. She loves the Sequoia except the little things that break and the 15-16 MPG. Her 4Runner used the same amount of gas. The comparison is for a vehicle that is great to travel cross country in. The ONLY advantage to the Seqouia was more room to haul STUFF. Having to buy gas every 300 miles vs 600 was a pain. After 36,000 miles in the Sequoia and 26,000 miles in the Touareg TDI the winner is very clear. Not a chance I would buy another Toyota. I do have a long history with Toyota. Buying a new Toyota Land Cruiser in 1964. That vehicle had more problems than any new vehicle I have ever owned. Valves and timing gear 3 times each in 50k miles. I swore I would never buy another until we settled on the 2007 Sequoia. Not likely to buy another Toyota in my lifetime. By the way the 4Runner is butt ugly.
    Talking of personal anecdotal experiences, I have a 1999 Toyota 4Runner with 260 k odd miles on the clock. Never gave me any trouble, Just routine maintenance and fluid changes. Just this year after trouble free 250k miles, I pro-actively refurbished it with a new radiator, shocks and coils and lower and upper ball joints to give it a further new lease of life as I intend to run it to the ground over next 5 years :)
    Lucky you, this is what my son's 4Runner looked like at 130k miles. Not even close to the VW 12 year rust warranty.
    Looks like he never took his car to a car wash after a winters worth of road salt . Happens when you just love german carsv and ignore all others  ! LOL
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 51,906
    edited November 2015
    ruking1 said:

    If the rumors are true that Prius makes $3,100 per unit and VW makes approximately $850 per unit .... There is no doubt in my mind that the VW diesel was, is, remains the better choice.

    Well, if that's your reasoning, you would have done much better buying a car where the manufacturer loses $1,000 every time it makes one. :D

    Actually, by the time the smoke clears, it may be several thousand that VW loses on every 2.0l TDI sold in the US. So yeah, you done good, lol.

    Moderator - Buying questions? Please include city or zip code and trim you are shopping, FWD or AWD, etc.

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 17,717
    edited November 2015
    Yes. BUT....$7,000 more vs $7,000 LESS!? Don't even need a cheap calculator for that one !? :D ;) B) Or am I just being PC?

    The anti-diesel folks amongst us MIGHT need use a calculator for the 43 mpg versus 50 mpg over 180,000 miles .

    Thank you ! IF VW is able to weather this fiasco well, which I think they will, diesels will offer even better value for at least another 10 years, after all is settled UP, & things settle down.
  • carboy21carboy21 Posts: 760
    edited November 2015

    I was never fond of the "rich people are stupid" argument. If everyone and his pet monkey has been copying BMW this last decade (and they have), then BMW must have something that the other automakers wish to emulate. One has to admit that the "driving dynamics" have improved quite a bit in both American and Japanese cars, and I think the Germans deserve credit for inspiring that.

    Actually the "Germans " have responded to the onslaught of Japanese and Korean mass market cars by coming out it with copycat "diluted" German engineered 3 series BMWs and C series MB and A3 series Audis. I am not even going to mention the X1,X2,X3 , X5 BMWs and the GLA GLC and GLK series SUV by MB.These are expensive overrated poor cousins of the original German cars made exclusively to compete with the "Mass Market" Japanese :)

    "Driving Dynamics" and the "Ultimate Driving Machine "., is a over used cliche by the Germans ;)
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 17,717
    edited November 2015
    Indeed that can be true! A lot of folks are really OK with poorer quality! The Germans are just giving the customers what they " want" That is one reason why homework is important. It does beg the question do Japanese, Korean, US OEM's build better (like model ) cars for European markets?

    That was one reason why I bought the 2009 VW Jetta TDI! The 2010 was the first of the DE-contented versions. The 2014 MB 250 BT is made for the American markets, but still made in Germany. Now what that means in comparison is difficult to contrast.

    One real glaring example is the Chevrolet Cruze diesel : costs about $8000 more then a gas Cruze ! There's a whole discussion on the points, but I will go into I only if folks want to.

    Slow news diesel day ! Only caught a - minus 3% move on the downside on "some chicken little " type articles published about VW TDI's.

    Yes, a lot of car journalism mimics wine tasting prose! "Fruity with a good nose" to use a bad example. But yet either to both can be good from the sublime to rip roaring comedy!
  • eliaselias Posts: 2,117
    gagrice, EPA says that VW cheated with the Touareg TDI. VW denies but why would anyone believe VW at this point?
    So.... If you are given the choice of getting recall applied, lowering NOX emissions and lowering MPG, will you get the recall applied to your vehicle? (Sounds like there won't be any choice in some states, but if you have the choice, what would you do?)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 53,751
    They may be de-contented to compete in the American market but they are still very distinctly German cars. How does one copy oneself? I do agree though that BMWs have become a bit softer and for most Americans that's probably a good thing. What you are seeing is not a marked degradation of German driving dynamics but rather everyone else having caught up. Buicks, after all, no longer drive like Buicks.

    carboy21 said:

    I was never fond of the "rich people are stupid" argument. If everyone and his pet monkey has been copying BMW this last decade (and they have), then BMW must have something that the other automakers wish to emulate. One has to admit that the "driving dynamics" have improved quite a bit in both American and Japanese cars, and I think the Germans deserve credit for inspiring that.

    Actually the "Germans " have responded to the onslaught of Japanese and Korean mass market cars by coming out it with copycat "diluted" German engineered 3 series BMWs and C series MB and A3 series Audis. I am not even going to mention the X1,X2,X3 , X5 BMWs and the GLA GLC and GLK series SUV by MB.These are expensive overrated poor cousins of the original German cars made exclusively to compete with the "Mass Market" Japanese :)

    "Driving Dynamics" and the "Ultimate Driving Machine "., is a over used cliche by the Germans ;)

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 17,717
    edited November 2015

    They may be de-contented to compete in the American market but they are still very distinctly German cars. How does one copy oneself? I do agree though that BMWs have become a bit softer and for most Americans that's probably a good thing. What you are seeing is not a marked degradation of German driving dynamics but rather everyone else having caught up. Buicks, after all, no longer drive like Buicks.



    carboy21 said:

    I was never fond of the "rich people are stupid" argument. If everyone and his pet monkey has been copying BMW this last decade (and they have), then BMW must have something that the other automakers wish to emulate. One has to admit that the "driving dynamics" have improved quite a bit in both American and Japanese cars, and I think the Germans deserve credit for inspiring that.

    Actually the "Germans " have responded to the onslaught of Japanese and Korean mass market cars by coming out it with copycat "diluted" German engineered 3 series BMWs and C series MB and A3 series Audis. I am not even going to mention the X1,X2,X3 , X5 BMWs and the GLA GLC and GLK series SUV by MB.These are expensive overrated poor cousins of the original German cars made exclusively to compete with the "Mass Market" Japanese :)

    "Driving Dynamics" and the "Ultimate Driving Machine "., is a over used cliche by the Germans ;)
    That part is true also ! Bean counters, no matter the language are involved almost integrally down to the tiniest detail!

    So for example on the 2012 VW Touareg TDI, one would expect a ZF 8 speed A/T ! Instead it is an " AISIN" 8 speed automatic transmission. I would daresay/swag it's probably cheaper and better than the ZF?
  • carboy21carboy21 Posts: 760
    ruking1 said:

    Indeed that can be true! A lot of folks are really OK with poorer quality! The Germans are just giving the customers what they " want" That is one reason why homework is important. It does beg the question do Japanese, Korean, US OEM's build better (like model ) cars for European markets?

    That was one reason why I bought the 2009 VW Jetta TDI! The 2010 was the first of the DE-contented versions. The 2014 MB 250 BT is made for the American markets, but still made in Germany. Now what that means in comparison is difficult to contrast.

    One real glaring example is the Chevrolet Cruze diesel : costs about $8000 more then a gas Cruze ! There's a whole discussion on the points, but I will go into I only if folks want to.

    Slow news diesel day ! Only caught a - minus 3% move on the downside on "some chicken little " type articles published about VW TDI's.

    Yes, a lot of car journalism mimics wine tasting prose! "Fruity with a good nose" to use a bad example. But yet either to both can be good from the sublime to rip roaring comedy!

    I have lived in the UK for 6 years and can safely say that the Ford and GM have the UP contented versions of the American counterparts. One of the reason being that the UK Pound is far stronger then the US $ and there is more profit per car in UK for the US carmakers. Same applies to the BMW , MB and Audi . Even in rest of the Europe, cars are speced much highr then the American counterparts. Does not apply to top of the range BMW and MB which are of course only made in Germany.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 17,717
    edited November 2015
    Thanks for the 6 year perspective. I also noticed that European used cars ( in Europe) are cheaper than ( European) used cars in America ! Too bad we can not get the European versions here @ reduced prices also.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,698
    elias said:

    gagrice, EPA says that VW cheated with the Touareg TDI. VW denies but why would anyone believe VW at this point?
    So.... If you are given the choice of getting recall applied, lowering NOX emissions and lowering MPG, will you get the recall applied to your vehicle? (Sounds like there won't be any choice in some states, but if you have the choice, what would you do?)

    I have a 2013 Touareg TDI. That has not been mentioned yet, as an offender. If it does get caught up in the web of deceit, I would take a wait and see attitude. I just did my two year smog which it passed. So will not be hit up again until 2017 licensing. I think it is very premature to think it would make much difference in the power. The vehicle has far more power than I will ever need.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 17,717
    edited November 2015
    elias said:

    gagrice, EPA says that VW cheated with the Touareg TDI. VW denies but why would anyone believe VW at this point?
    So.... If you are given the choice of getting recall applied, lowering NOX emissions and lowering MPG, will you get the recall applied to your vehicle? (Sounds like there won't be any choice in some states, but if you have the choice, what would you do?)

    EPA/CARB have machine gunned their credibility also.
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