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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?



  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346

    Sorry to hear about the MIL, Steve Poor Mrs. Steve must be stressed too.. :(

  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,936

    Thanks and yeah, it's tough getting old. The Subaru has been getting a workout with all the snowy roads; luckily the whole drive this afternoon was in "daylight".

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346

    If anything though, the miles on the Sube is probably a good thing. I assume you drive it somewhere on purpose at least once a month over the summer?

    What are the headlights like on the Outback? Legacy?..I forget..

    Headlight reflectors/lenses are something I've learned to not take for granted ever since they replaced the old glass sealed beams. Remember when Chrysler brought out their first ...dang..having a brain fart here...their cab-forward cars..LH plus the cheaper ones..anyway, people could barely see 40 or 50' in front of them on low beam. Can't even imagine the R&D guys at Chryco..." mean they have to be functional too? We thought they just had to look good sitting there in the parking lot." ugh.. safe..although I know she's a lot closer than she used to be so that's good..

    Be thankful you didn't get the ice storm that GTA got. My friend in Brampton says his street in Brampton looks like a war zone. He measured the ice and was a full 5/8" thick.. Trees and power lines down all over the place. Massive destruction..trees sitting on homes and cars..was a big area..well outside of GTA too.. Saw clips on the news..pretty nasty. It basically missed us up here..had about 1/32" layer..walk in the park.. just as well, it simply has NOT quit snowing here every day since Dec 11th. Is getting hard to find places to put we've already paid our dues for all of this year AFAIC'd..

  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,936
    edited December 2013

    Yeah, just nice powder here, no ice. As soon as the sun comes out I'm waxing my snowboard. The lights are marginal on the Outback, but better than they were since I found some polish stuff at the house (used toothpaste with okay results before). Even though they aren't too hazy for their age, they are low enough that the road spray covers them up pretty good after a few miles.

    A tank of gas lasts me all summer. :o

    I trust your friend has a diesel generator....

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,480
    edited December 2013

    Merry Christmas ! Happy New Year ! The best to all for the coming year ! Happy dieseling !

    Slow diesel news day.

    D2 = $3.85,

    PUG = $ 3.55,

    RUG = $ 3.35

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346


    :thumb up:

    Remember the two rules on Xmas eve.. - the women aren't allowed to hang leotards off the mantle..they gotta be regular socks


    • Santa likes a little Baileys in his coffee.. guys get Baileys down/out there, right?

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,681

    I was addicted to Baileys in my evening coffee and had to go cold turkey to break the habit. Good stuff but very fattening. Now I have to break my addiction to a nice Grand Marnier every night. Doc says one cocktail per night is fine.

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,701

    @crkyolfrt said: - Santa likes a little Baileys in his coffee..

    Santa looks like he's had too much Baileys over the years!

    Merry Christmas to everyone.

    This message has been approved.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,681
    edited December 2013

    2014 is a good year to buy that diesel and quit pollutin' so much.

    Have a Hairy Christmas and a Happy, Happy, Happy New year

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,480
    edited December 2013

    As good as resale value is on diesels (relatively), depreciation is not a friend of plug ins

    Right now a 300 mile range, is pretty much vaporware.

  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,936

    The tax credit only applies to new vehicles so it's a bit like how new car incentives can depress resale values. I guess the incentive is still big too (~$7,500). Gas hanging around $3.35 doesn't help either unless an EV fits your commute or mostly city driving. CAFE is going to keep them around a while though.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,681

    With Nissan batteries losing a large part of their capacity at an early age, may be a good reason not to buy a used EV. Unless there is some big break through in battery design, I would not expect the resale of EVs to improve. Still trying to grasp what Musk will do with a bunch of used Teslas he has paid too much for.

  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,936
    edited December 2013

    Hm, I've had good luck with refurbs. That could be an affordable way to get into a Tesla, especially if they'd put a good warranty on one.

    People made similar kinds of arguments trying to shoot down the Prius, and look how that turned out.

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,480
    edited December 2013

    I really do not know about that. OFF the diesel topic, knowing what I know and having run 150,000 +plus miles in 10+ years now in a "commuter type" car, I would STILL get a Civic/Corolla in the COMUTER segment over a Prius. This is despite wanting to "like Prius'es more, even after multiple REdesigns. Not to scratch a black board but diesel Civic/Corolla' are still the best "non existent" commuter tickets.

    This is not to say that I am unhappy with any of the VW commute TDI's (03/09), I have since moved onto. One of the other benefits are diesels are WONDERFUL road cars !!! Anecdotally, they are turning out to be far more reliable and durable than most give them credit for ! ? Also the quality of even the non luxury models are heads and shoulders above.

    I think the BIG picture utility of the Prius is so Toyota can sell the rest of its line with more volume and greater profits. One example are the small to "light) but HUGE light trucks segments , albeit far less MPG !! ??

    I also think the VERY artificial adversarial diesel vs Prius Hybrid is way too over done and straw man. Most folks who shift to a Prius see the enemy as another... gasser. In fact they remain gasser USERS !!! A lot are relatively unaware of diesels let alone realistically consider a diesel. So for example, a relative who went to a new Prius came from a GASSER (MB 320 station wagon). He was less than marginally aware and could care less about diesels.

    What is become more visible (according to a WSJ article and IHS statistics) are the average age of the passenger fleet is forecasted to climb to 11.5 years old by 2018.

  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,936
    edited December 2013

    Your comment makes sense -- if Prius drivers see gassers as the enemy, they'd put diesels in that camp too. Wonder what they mutter when a pure EV driver gives them flack? B)

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,480
    edited December 2013

    ;) Isn't that special ! ? Is there a Dana Carvey "CHURCH LADY" joke here ?

  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,902

    I wonder how much better mileage my car could achieve if traffic could flow properly. The lost momentum and excess idle time has to kill it. The single strong point of hybrids, enabled by inept "engineers".

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,480
    edited December 2013

    I think even for hybrids, that relationship promises a lot more than probably what happens in REALITY. The Prius 2004, as I remember had an EPA of 60 mpg C/50 mpg H. At that time, it fulfilled in neither metric. The best I can gather is the over all was 42-45 mpg. It also took a lot of effort once one knew how to maximize the mpg. The brouhaha even spilled into the regulations being changed to give hybrids an edge even as they had to simultaneously severely lower their EPA figures and do several costly "RE" designs. The rule changes even put gassers and diesels @ a STATED disadvantage.

    I recall the 2003 Jetta TDI had an EPA of 42 C/49 mpg H. My over all for 186,000 miles was app 50 mpg. My range of tank fulls were between 44 mpg to 62 mpg and in a normal commute were more the range of 48-52 mpg, again call it 50 mpg. In the process of understanding how diesels were different one really did not have to try hard @ all. In fact you could easily go from egg ono go pedal to slightly to moderately aggressively and mpg would literally FALL into place. It would be interesting if I knew what a 04 Prius could do under like operating conditions.

    Both sides saw the writings on the wall and the Prius went toward actually trying to GET 50 mpg and the diesels went for app 52% more torque while boosting efficiency, and getting more like 40- 44 mpg.

    I know the Prius benefits from driving like there is an egg between the go pedal and one's foot. The TDI's benefit from slightly aggressive to moderately aggressive operations. From a practical perspective, the differences are literally night and day. Now this is not to say the Prius could not be driven (harder) like a TDI , or for that matter vice versa.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,681

    I love driving my Touareg TDI. We went to an appointment in downtown San Diego today. Merging onto Interstate 52 some jerk in a Camry thought he could block my small opening into the right lane. Needless to say that sluggish gasser did not have a chance. I was up over 90 when I let off and slipped back into the flow about half a mile ahead of that neanderthal. I hate when people will not let you smoothly flow into traffic. Thank you diesel torque.

  • @bobw3 said: Based on the above comparision, Camry hybrids average in the upper 30s MPG and the Passat diesel in the low 40s MPG, but again if you factor in the cost of fuel they'll both pay the same cost per mile. This is based on user input.

    A Prius V will average 42mpg. The Passat TDI Premium is about $32K, the Camry XLE $27K and the Prius V Model 5 $31K (although I paid $29K for mine). The Passat has a bigger back seat, but the Prius V has a much larger cargo area.

    Just based on this, I'm not sure how anyone could view the Passat as the clear winner between the three.

    These arguments are either in bad faith or borne out of ignorance.

    First, comparing the bare-bones Prius V base leatherette model at $31k to the loaded to the gills TDI Premium at $32k is like comparing a Toyota to Lexus. The $31k Prius V is comparable to the $27k TDI SE trim, which I purchased for $24.5k btw. Even that has more features than the Prius V base - including power seats. Even Totyota does not try to compare the Prius to a Passat, they compare it to a Jetta Wagon.

    Likewise, a partial list of things that the Camry XLE $27k base does not have that the TDI Premium has include leather, a sunroof, premium audio system, navigation, heated seats and much much more. I figured this out on page 1 of the Camry build.

    It took me 5 mins of research to figure this much out. I would think that people comparison shopping cars would try to at least make sure that they are comparing apples to apples.

    I will not even get into how the EPA numbers for diesels have been thoroughly and repeatedly (by both professional reviewers and ordinary drivers) shown to be understated. On a personal level, I drove my '14 Passat TDI to work today - clocking 70/30 highway/city @ 44.2mpg. The highway leg was @80mph and included 3 very aggressive 3rd gear redlined merges. Even better, I clocked 39mpg on a BMW 328d in Germany racing (literally with the pedal jammed against the floor) on the autobahn @140mph+. Steady 130kmph (82mph) on Swiss highways delivered close to 53mpg. No one actually disputes the fact that diesels have substantially better mileage, especially on the highway.

    If you want to justify the Prius then you should at least highlight the correct reasons, not un-researched baseless ones. Maybe you drive almost exclusively in the city. No diesel can touch a hybrid's mileage in that environment. One could argue that the money you would save buying a comparable diesel would more than make up for the lower mileage but still, from an immediate emission perspective a hybrid would outperform a diesel.

    But nothing that you discussed above have any basis in reality.

    Btw, icing on the cake: - In the small-overlap frontal-offset crash test, however, the Prius V earned the lowest rating of "Poor." - The Passat received the Institute's second-highest rating of "Acceptable" in the new small-overlap frontal-offset crash test.

    Putting the family at risk, for what?

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