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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 17,153
    edited January 20
    I am sure! The torque is still 236 # ft versus 184 # ft of torque. Try to add 52# ft of torque to a gasser to match the diesel output, and the numbers become very clear!
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 49,677
    Probably have to go to a pure EV to trump others on torque.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,793
    Well the stats don't see much of a difference in real world acceleration, (perhaps .3 or .4 of a second zero-60) although I'm sure the two cars "feel" different---less turbo lag for instance on the TDI, but also less rev-happy as the engines both wind up.

    As nice as the extra torque is on a TDI, it's not like an EV, with all the torque pretty much the moment you step on the gas.

    The advantages of the more efficient diesel engine don't jump out at most people.

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  • texasestexases Posts: 6,905
    The difference in CO2 emissions isn't as great as the mpg difference. Diesel puts out about 20% more CO2 per gallon used than E10 gasoline, so a diesel car has to make 20% better mpgs to break even on CO2. I don't doubt that the warped EU mileage figures over-exaggerate the differences.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 17,153
    stever said:

    Probably have to go to a pure EV to trump others on torque.

    Per se yes, but there are a lot of disadvantages.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,383
    Wonder if this is a VW diesel.

    http://trailerassist.volkswagen.no/en/
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,793
    ruking1 said:

    stever said:

    Probably have to go to a pure EV to trump others on torque.

    Per se yes, but there are a lot of disadvantages.

    I like to think of the Tesla S as a Mercedes diesel but with a 9 gallon gas tank and a 1/8th inch diameter filler neck :D

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  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 6,566
    Michaell said:

    andres3 said:

    I would think someone looking for a little extra oomph might still prefer the 2.0 TDI to the 1.4T, and then you get a couple extra MPG to boot? Also, does the 1.4T get the sophisticated DSG Auto or the antiquated 99 cent store slushbox?

    The 1.4T gets a conventional 6-speed automatic, not the DSG.

    I wouldn't miss it. The one test drive I took with a car equipped with the DSG, I didn't much care for the "feel" of the transmission. Plus the extra maintenance costs associated with it.
    What was that one DSG vehicle test drive in? I have to admit, the TDI DSG is a lot lazier in "D" mode than I'd like, but I guess that's how they squeeze the EPA for great fuel economy numbers. Maintenance costs of the DSG are probably greatly outweighed by the fuel savings vs. conventional 6-speed auto.
    2016 Audi TTS S-Tronic (DSG 6-Speed) quattro. Wife has 2015 VW Golf Sportwagen TDI SE
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 31,521
    andres3 said:

    Michaell said:

    andres3 said:

    I would think someone looking for a little extra oomph might still prefer the 2.0 TDI to the 1.4T, and then you get a couple extra MPG to boot? Also, does the 1.4T get the sophisticated DSG Auto or the antiquated 99 cent store slushbox?

    The 1.4T gets a conventional 6-speed automatic, not the DSG.

    I wouldn't miss it. The one test drive I took with a car equipped with the DSG, I didn't much care for the "feel" of the transmission. Plus the extra maintenance costs associated with it.
    What was that one DSG vehicle test drive in? I have to admit, the TDI DSG is a lot lazier in "D" mode than I'd like, but I guess that's how they squeeze the EPA for great fuel economy numbers. Maintenance costs of the DSG are probably greatly outweighed by the fuel savings vs. conventional 6-speed auto.
    I test drove a used CC with the DSG a few years back. Have they been improved since then?

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,793
    I think a DSG and diesel turbo are a very nice marriage of technologies.

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 49,677
    Heh, it's not too often that New Mexico is first in something:

    "New Mexico is suing Volkswagen and other German automakers over an emissions cheating scandal that involves millions of cars worldwide, the first state to do so but almost certainly not the last.

    “Supported by a massive advertising campaign, defendants claimed that superior engineering allowed their cars to perform better, consume less fuel and emit fewer harmful pollutants than diesel cars of the past, making them a great fit for eco-conscious consumers. In fact, the complete opposite was true,” the lawsuit states."

    New Mexico sues Volkswagen over emissions scandal (Las Cruces Sun News)

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 37,188
    edited January 20
    Ah the well funded public sector prosecutor warriors, looking for attention and ego.

    From what I know, the cars performed better, consumed less fuel, and emitted less pollutants than old diesels - no matter if they cheated or not. Sounds kind of tenuous. Gotta get in on the gravy train, I suppose.
  • texasestexases Posts: 6,905
    All lawsuits are based on the laws of the day, not 20 years prior.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,734
    stever said:

    Heh, it's not too often that New Mexico is first in something:

    "New Mexico is suing Volkswagen and other German automakers over an emissions cheating scandal that involves millions of cars worldwide, the first state to do so but almost certainly not the last.

    “Supported by a massive advertising campaign, defendants claimed that superior engineering allowed their cars to perform better, consume less fuel and emit fewer harmful pollutants than diesel cars of the past, making them a great fit for eco-conscious consumers. In fact, the complete opposite was true,” the lawsuit states."

    New Mexico sues Volkswagen over emissions scandal (Las Cruces Sun News)

    Hmmm...it would seem that all those things VW claimed, could, in fact, be well defended as being true.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,383
    stever said:

    Heh, it's not too often that New Mexico is first in something:

    "New Mexico is suing Volkswagen and other German automakers over an emissions cheating scandal that involves millions of cars worldwide, the first state to do so but almost certainly not the last.

    “Supported by a massive advertising campaign, defendants claimed that superior engineering allowed their cars to perform better, consume less fuel and emit fewer harmful pollutants than diesel cars of the past, making them a great fit for eco-conscious consumers. In fact, the complete opposite was true,” the lawsuit states."

    New Mexico sues Volkswagen over emissions scandal (Las Cruces Sun News)

    Silly New Mexico, just wasting tax payers money. They don't have a clue what the violation is if you can believe the lawsuit.

    Prosecutors say the vehicles exceeded average nitrogen oxides emission limits by as much as 30 to 40 percent. Such pollution contributes to smog and has been linked with serious health effects such as asthma attacks.

    Only place the test cars is Albuquerque. So how many vehicles we talking about a dozen?

    http://www.mvd.newmexico.gov/emission-testing.aspx
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 6,566
    edited January 20
    Michaell said:

    andres3 said:

    Michaell said:

    andres3 said:

    I would think someone looking for a little extra oomph might still prefer the 2.0 TDI to the 1.4T, and then you get a couple extra MPG to boot? Also, does the 1.4T get the sophisticated DSG Auto or the antiquated 99 cent store slushbox?

    The 1.4T gets a conventional 6-speed automatic, not the DSG.

    I wouldn't miss it. The one test drive I took with a car equipped with the DSG, I didn't much care for the "feel" of the transmission. Plus the extra maintenance costs associated with it.
    What was that one DSG vehicle test drive in? I have to admit, the TDI DSG is a lot lazier in "D" mode than I'd like, but I guess that's how they squeeze the EPA for great fuel economy numbers. Maintenance costs of the DSG are probably greatly outweighed by the fuel savings vs. conventional 6-speed auto.
    I test drove a used CC with the DSG a few years back. Have they been improved since then?
    Depends on the car and the generation. Seems they always tend towards more smoothness in more modern examples; emulating normal automatics better. I absolutely love the 7-speed DSG iteration in my S4. Perfect transmission that helps me to achieve up to 30 MPG in a heavy fast car at high speed provided no one gets in my way.
    2016 Audi TTS S-Tronic (DSG 6-Speed) quattro. Wife has 2015 VW Golf Sportwagen TDI SE
  • texasestexases Posts: 6,905
    The DSG has its detractors - Car and Driver weren't fans of a prior years (rough clutch action), nor was Edmunds on their 2015 GTI:
    http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/golf-gti/2015/long-term-road-test/2015-volkswagen-golf-gti-could-be-slicker-in-the-city.html
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,793
    stever said:

    Heh, it's not too often that New Mexico is first in something:

    "New Mexico is suing Volkswagen and other German automakers over an emissions cheating scandal that involves millions of cars worldwide, the first state to do so but almost certainly not the last.

    “Supported by a massive advertising campaign, defendants claimed that superior engineering allowed their cars to perform better, consume less fuel and emit fewer harmful pollutants than diesel cars of the past, making them a great fit for eco-conscious consumers. In fact, the complete opposite was true,” the lawsuit states."

    New Mexico sues Volkswagen over emissions scandal (Las Cruces Sun News)

    New Mexico is also in the Top Ten states for DUI convictions, so stand tall Steve! :)

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,793
    There could be a silver lining in this for VW. They could shift all their diesel tech to larger vehicles only, like SUVs and CUVs.

    The reasoning behind this idea is that a small diesel car in 2016 offers little advantage, percentage wise, in HP or fuel economy, to a small gasoline car, whereas a diesel in a larger SUV gives a pretty big percentage boost in MPG and certainly move the Big Lump off the line a lot faster.

    One might speculate that VW would move into larger sedans, but Americans have soundly rejected large diesel luxury sedans, so I don't see that changing anytime soon.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 17,153
    I would agree with the silver lining! I would only disagree with the small diesel conclusion. The MB 2.1 L BT engine. @ 369# ft of torque posts some serious grunt! If VW would match the grunt, I'd love that in the small car ! But yes I would agree it works in the CUV/SUV compact to full sized segment . Not fully germane to VWs marketing plan is the AM PVF is 25% small cars &75% mid sized cars to light trucks.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 17,153
    edited January 20

    There could be a silver lining in this for VW. They could shift all their diesel tech to larger vehicles only, like SUVs and CUVs.

    The reasoning behind this idea is that a small diesel car in 2016 offers little advantage, percentage wise, in HP or fuel economy, to a small gasoline car, whereas a diesel in a larger SUV gives a pretty big percentage boost in MPG and certainly move the Big Lump off the line a lot faster.

    One might speculate that VW would move into larger sedans, but Americans have soundly rejected large diesel luxury sedans, so I don't see that changing anytime soon.

    There are definitely silver linings. To only motivate larger cars would be a waste. I would disagree with your first premise, given the M B 2.1 L TwinTurbo BT (Blue Tec) 369# ft of torque! I'd love to have this in a (compact) small car! In many ways it would be ideal. Needless to say, a 1.5 L TDI option is also a very good mpg poster. But putting the right diesel engine in the CUV/SUV segment, compact to full sized makes all the sense in the world .

    Here might be a slant on why GM got so many get out of jail free cards ! https://www.yahoo.com/autos/it-s-obama-auto-industry-1347441215316022.html
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 6,566
    I wouldn't mind an A6 TDI luxury cruiser.
    2016 Audi TTS S-Tronic (DSG 6-Speed) quattro. Wife has 2015 VW Golf Sportwagen TDI SE
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,383
    edited January 20
    There could be a silver lining in this for VW. They could shift all their diesel tech to larger vehicles only, like SUVs and CUVs.


    Fine with me, as I see little need for small cars, except golf carts. I would like to see a small PU with diesel. I also think the 2.1L MB diesel is a great engine. If VW were to be forced out of the market and bought back my Touareg TDI, I would head to my MB dealer and buy the GLE300 BlueTec. I would check out the GLC diesel as well. I like a bit more room. I am glad Mercedes is putting the smaller diesel into a midsized SUV.


  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 17,153
    edited January 21
    To Shifty's point, it bears mentioning diesels have been & remains & are a good fit for mid sized to full sized SUVs to light trucks. The 4,800 # 1994 TLC gets 12 to 16 mpg, call it 15 mpg. The 2012 VW Touareg TDI (4,980 #'s) posts 31 to 38 mpg, call it 33 mpg. 18 mpg/120% better is a pretty good improvement! If I didnt have the 30 year goal for the TLC's, I wouldn't look back! I'm glad the TLCs are "iconic", so no issues trying to sell it !

    So really, there's no issues in my mind about running the diesels out to 250,000 to 300,000 miles. At like miles, I'm having way LESS issues with the diesels than I do with the gassers!

    I should have done this in the first place, but I'm getting a full capacity rated 7,700# hitch set up installed !
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,793
    The Mercedes GLE Blue Tec is a great setup. Little diesel cars aren't sports car. Giving them 300+ whatever ft. lbs of torque is pointless. Diesels are happiest moving big things around. You don't see diesel motorcycles or diesel runabouts.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 17,153

    The Mercedes GLE Blue Tec is a great setup. Little diesel cars aren't sports car. Giving them 300+ whatever ft. lbs of torque is pointless. Diesels are happiest moving big things around. You don't see diesel motorcycles or diesel runabouts.

    Well for sure, this is a issue that we agree to disagree. ;)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 37,188
    Have you seen any word that we will get the GLC diesel?
    gagrice said:


    Fine with me, as I see little need for small cars, except golf carts. I would like to see a small PU with diesel. I also think the 2.1L MB diesel is a great engine. If VW were to be forced out of the market and bought back my Touareg TDI, I would head to my MB dealer and buy the GLE300 BlueTec. I would check out the GLC diesel as well. I like a bit more room. I am glad Mercedes is putting the smaller diesel into a midsized SUV.

  • fintailfintail Posts: 37,188
    That's even more amusing. SK is an insanely nationalistic market - I can't imagine more than a handful of VAG diesels sell there. I guess this is a "show yourself" moment for the prosecutor class.
    texases said:
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 17,153
    edited January 21
    Yep! IF they box us out of their country by tariffs, the least we can do is match or exceed their boxing out tariffs! It's time to stop making stooge deals ! The same is true with the Japanese, etc., OEM products ! We should begin by pulling our troops from places (like ROK & Japan) that seem not to be economically friendly to us.
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