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Top Ten Resale Values -- What's Their Secret?

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  • fezofezo Posts: 9,353
    I had actually been shopping for the next generation Miata (I liked the wink thing but needed a trunk that could at least hold a guitar). Everyone wanted silly money for them.

    Ended up with a Celica convertible. Wasn't until I parked it next to a Miata that the Celica looked BIG!
  • lemmerlemmer Posts: 2,676
    I wouldn't think a winking Miata would be helpful in any way to a man trying to attract women.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,009
    Women like Miatas. I'd imagine a disproportionate share of the used Miata market is shopped by women. ( Men make the mistake of thinking women like their expensive macho cars, but what women may be attracted to is that they are expensive cars IMO. :P )

    Women like MINIS too, and small SUVs right now. Female power is definitely out there in the resale market.

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  • hey lemmer,...agree with most of your list[just having fun as a new member looking at old postings that interest me]...have to take exception to the 'vette listing though,...much as i love the corvette,...everything i've ever seen,...and researched,...unfortunately shows this cars value PLUMMETS once you take it off the lot,...so much so,...that even a 70000$ zo6 is worth about a third after 3 years,...don't quite know why,...they ARE building them better then they used to,...and now with gm in trouble[more then trouble, they're BANKTRUPT!],...why are the porsche 911's resideduals so good after 3 years[still at almost 2/3's of value?]...just perceived better quallity is all...this car ,as well as the porsche marque in general, should be on that list,...try buying a good condition 911,...say a 2007 s coupe, for less than 55000-60000 or so, and you'll be laughed off the lot!...i think people just perceive these cars to be a better built product, rightly or wrongly...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,009
    The reason for low Corvette resale (relatively speaking) is that they made a TON OF THEM every year. There are thousands for sale every day all over the country, and in every podunk town you can name, probably.

    It's just a supply and demand equation that tilts against excessive supply.

    As for "quality", that, too is relative, although they joke for *older* Corvettes used to be that they "aged in dog years".

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  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    The recent recalls for roofs flying off doesn't exactly scream "Quality"...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,009
    Well let's put it in perspective. You are getting near-Ferrari performance for 1/2 the price.

    So they have to skimp on something to get that price point---in the Vette's case, it's always been interior fitments, fit and finish on the exterior, and some off-the shelf GM hardware to save bucks.

    Still a remarkable car for the money, especially for the 2nd and 3rd owners. But it is, after all, a Chevrolet, not an Aston Martin.

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  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    Meh, I've driven Vettes before and their performance can be described IMO as "squirmy". Too much power and not enough control. I would trust a Ferrari or an Aston at the limits, I wouldn't feel safe in a Vette doing the same thing. Feels too fragile.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,009
    I have heard that from hi-performance drivers but I've never pushed one that hard. But judging from all the heavily damaged Dodge Vipers I see advertised in Hemmings, I would suspect that the car is beyond the skill of most owners.

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  • vchengvcheng Posts: 1,284
    The most critical component is a high powered car (indeed any car) is the nut behind the wheel! :)

    Even a Corvette, which might be more squirmy at the limit compared to a Ferrari, will still have limits that far exceed the ability of most drivers that it is a moot point, I think.

    A good analogy would be drivers that argue that a jet fighter that pulls 9.5G is better at the limit than another one pulling 9G, when people not trained to be fighter pilots would all black out at 6G.

    Me personally, I'd be happy with either one! :)
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    Oh trust me, I've never even come close to explorign the limits of the vettes I drove, but what I did find out the hard way was it was tail-happy. I remember punching one on the highway and doing a lane change at the same time and the felt the rear end try to side step on me. Scared the bejeezus out of me. Same thing exiting a road, too much power, back end wanted to leave before the front... On top of that, the seating position is terrible (sitting on the floor basically), rear visibility was atrocious and the thing felt like navigation a canoe, both of them.

    Now, I've never had the pleasure or displeasure of driving a Ferrari, Lambo or Aston so maybe that's just the going rate for long slung road rockets. :P but I will never own a modern Vette no matter how much of a bargain they are. I like cars that I can ring out 100% of their potential instead of feeling like I can use 60% only before I get into trouble. :shades:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,009
    AT least a Corvette has the advantage of being a perfectly comfortable, and dare we say, even economical (!!) everyday driver. But a Viper owner often tires of the car if it's not being tracked. It beats you up.

    Judging from the damage photos I see, I suspect what happens on a high powered RWD car without VSC is that someone charges too hard into a turn, panics, let's off the gas, and then you are rear-end-first into a tree.

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,764
    the thing felt like navigation a canoe, both of them.

    In North America, that would be called a kayak. No visibility and you're sitting on the floor.

    When I need a better look in my open canoe, I just stand up. :shades:

    I'm still scratching my head over the VW resale values.

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  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,753
    I'm still scratching my head over the VW resale values.

    Just as the Corvette is a cheap interior with good looks, handling, and power (a value proposition vs. Ferarri), VW is a less reliable vehicle with poor service experience that has Audi or Benz-like interior and European handling. Also a value proposition. :shades:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,009
    Yeah but VWs business model is slipping. A bad reliability rep will eventually give the advantage to your competitors.

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  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,753
    Yeah but VWs business model is slipping. A bad reliability rep will eventually give the advantage to your competitors.

    VWs sales are way down from 10 years ago. I think the bad rep is out there. :P
    The people buying are those who love the cars so much they are willing to put up with the repair issues.

    Just like those with Corvettes are willing to put up with the junky interior for the good looks and high power.

    My theory is that a vehicle doesn't have to be perfect at everything to sell well. It just has to be really good at some thing. If you're not great at at least one thing you are toast:

    1 - Looks
    2 - Refinement
    3 - Power (less important since most vehicles now have this in spades)
    4 - Interior quality
    5 - Utility
    6 - Cost
    7 - Reliability
    8 - Handling

    So Toyota is usually great in #2,7; poorest in #1,8, decent in others.
    Honda is like Toyota - great in #7; a little less #2 but more #8.
    VW is great in #4, #8, usually good in #1, 2, poorest in #7
    Whereas much (not all) of GM vehicles were decent to very good in #6, but lousy in #s 2,4,7,8. Chrysler (at least their cars) don't excel in much of anything.

    So there is your low resale - the the brands don't excel or stand for anything great.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,009
    There was a time maybe 20 years ago when GM struck out on all 8---now that's not easy to accomplish!

    VW made its mark by marketing to young drivers---they did a great job of that.

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  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    Thankfully not so much lately, but for a while VW had some of the strangest, most tapped commercials on the tube. I especially remember the one with the 2 stoners hanging around a tree waiting for their GTi to fall out because one of them took the corner too fast :confuse:

    Couple that with odd product targets (Phaeton anyone?) and I seriously believe VW product development and marketing group meetings include some sort of drug parapernalia being passed around...
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,178
    I dunno. As far as I'm concerned, GM is tops in categories 1, 3, 6, and 7. The Chrysler vehicles in which I'd be interested would definitely top 3 and 6. Agree with you on the others. VWs do have very nice interiors. Too bad you can't combine the interior of a Jetta GLI with the exterior of a Cobalt coupe. You'd have one beautiful little ride.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,009
    Ah, you know GM---too little too late.

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  • totally have to agree with you about about them making a ton of them every year,...how mush more then the 911 i don't know,...someone else on here was commenting on the perceived quality of aston-martin,...now rhere really is a good one,...untill very very recently those cars were total cverpriced poeces of [non-permissible content removed],...i never read a car review of that marque that didn't mention that,...thry are built better now,...but too late; as with jaguar,...the cars reputation precedes it into oblivion....those 2 maques i honestly don't see being around muth longer,...and as for porsche,...they seem to be having problems of their own,...not buld quality or anything[still perceived as vault like],..but rather bad timing to introduce yet another not wanted luxury car[the panamera],...good luck selling THAT in this economy,...but hey,...i was totally way off on the cayenne[thought it would be a disaster...turn out to make more money for them then anything they ever produced!,...so go figure?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,009
    I think Porsche is a lot like Elvis was---basically "critic-proof". It didn't matter what he produced, how good, how bad, how indifferent, how brilliant---it just sold on past reputation and loyalty. Of course, I do hope Porsche has a happier ending. :D Ditto Ferrari.

    Porsche REALLY had to go out of its way to annoy people (can you say 924?) as did Ferrari (400i).

    Now it is true that if you keep doing bad stuff that *eventually*, despite the greatest reputation in the world, you can't rest on your laurels forever. Rolls Royce rested on them for at least 40 years and nobody seemed to mind as long as it said RR on the hood. So too Cadillac, which will never regain its former lustre.

    I think Porsche USA sales of *all* models is about the same as Corvette. Something in the low to mid 30,000 range.

    Much of this is the Boxster I'm sure, which is why the older ones are dirt cheap now, well under $10,000 and falling fast.

    Porsche seems to be just getting better and so is Corvette---so I'm not worried about either--unless Big Daddy GM goes under for good (a distinct possibility).

    Oh, no, a Chinese Corvette?!! The horror! :cry:

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  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    desirability and (perceived) reliability on scales of 1-10, very few volume automakers get much beyond 10. But those who get to 10 or so have the best resale. An extra point is scored for not having fleet sales of course.

    Toyota - desirability - 2, reliability - 8. (for example)
    Porsche - desirability - 10, reliability - 5? (and no fleet sales :-P)

    Probably explains why it is so expensive buying a 75,000-mile Boxster!! ($15-20K doesn't seem dirt cheap Shifty, for a 7-8 year old Boxster that will be pushing 100K in a couple of short years. Relatively inexpensive for a Porsche? Sure).

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,009
    Here's a '2000 model for $9900 asking, with 93K miles on it. They are really dirt cheap these days. I'm sure you could get this car for $9K. maybe less. People are *dying* out there. Just look how this ad reads. Guy needs to sell.

    I did a quick scan for "Boxster" on craigslist (just on craigslist), and only for the San FRancisco Bay Area, and I got 82 hits right off.

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/1545103850.html

    Porsche reliability is actually *very good*, especially the newer ones. Better than the other Germans I'd say. At least an 8.5. Maybe BMW is an 8, Benz a 7.5, VW a 5?4? Right up there with Range Rover :P

    Yeah, 97--'98 Boxster---not such a good idea to buy one of those.

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,722
    if you think you can just drop in the seat of a hipo car drive it anywhere near the limit, and feel as secure as a corolla on the interstate at the speed limit, you are bound to disappointed. the driver is the limitation, not the car.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    Well, if you believe in JD Power even a little bit, Land Rover is a 1, and VW maybe a 2 (and Kia, and Suzuki....). Does that still make Porsche an 8 on the reliability scale?

    A 93,000-mile Porsche seems like a fairly scary prospect (from my wallet's POV) for a purchase. Even if I can get it for only $9K.

    I realized after making my earlier remarks that what I said can't really be applied to niche automakers like Porsche anyway. Desirability is 10 if you are single and looking for a sports car. For a family of four, it pretty much has a desirability quotient of 0.0 (sure, Dad might dream from time to time, but unless he's rich enough for an automotive bauble in the garage, it will never happen).

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,009
    Well you hit the nail on the head...desirability really outscores reliability when it comes to resale---especially when it comes to say JD Powers, an impressive organization---but not impressive to a car enthusiast, who knows that JD Power are basically statisticians, not car people. They don't even drive cars, far as I know.

    Yes I think Porsche reliability is extremely good. But they are what we called "narrowly engineered" cars and they do not suffer foolish owners who drive them like Corollas or who decline all the required maintenance. So by 90,000 miles, if the car has not been impeccably maintained by qualified personnel, you are going to have "deferred issues". Is that the same as poor reliability? I don't think so.

    Sure, a Ferrari is 'fussy' and a 30,000 mile maintenance is going to cost you as much as a '98 Boxster, but that's the nature of the beast. You want excitement? You want maximum performance? You want prestige? You want tradition & heritage and membership in an exclusive club?

    Well then, pony up on the MSRP and on the maintenance, and depreciation be damned!!

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