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Question on TSB: Toyota Sienna Door Welds Causing Clicking

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Comments

  • fdemetzfdemetz Posts: 6
    To Subject Sent Size Categories
    'Ask Toyota' RE: Toyota Case #1504281240 [Incident: 150428-000163] 9:52 AM 32 KB
  • fdemetzfdemetz Posts: 6
    Dear Mr. Spencer,
    Dear Mr. Spencer
    Thanks for the reply and clarification of Toyota’s unwarranted view of the effectiveness of its “extensive” reliability testing procedures. After researching the many, many reports of the door stop mechanism failures (e.g., see Ref 1 below), it is apparent to me that your 2 year warranty extension beyond your standard 3 year warranty is irrelevant for owners who have experienced the failure, who do not drive over 20,000 miles per year.

    From the many complaints (e.g., see Ref 1), it appears that this design flaw in 592,000 vehicles should be corrected by a full “recall”. Replacement of the door and/or welding may be ineffective, and is not even “required” to fix this problem.

    There are several self-fixes offered on U-Tube which would not require more than 3 man-hours labor, and less than $10 of materials. Toyota Dealers could provide local sub-contractors (body shops and/or repair garages) with a detailed service bulletin such as provided by Ref. 2 to provide this fix for a few hundred $. I think this would be a far better public relations action by Toyota, than their current one which is evidently to just allow the vehicles and/or their 1st owners to simply “die” off.

    Short of that I’m sure that there are many current owners who will never buy another Toyota, and will spread the word to their friends and prospective public domain auto-quality review organizations, dealer BBB ratings services and state licensing departments. A class action suit should also be considered because too many owners of these models of low mileage, well-cared-for vehicles, are out there who have or “will” experience this problem.

    And again, I recommend that Toyota Engineering needs to significantly improve their component reliability testing management and procedures on new designs.

    Regards and Good Luck in your Career,
    Fred C. DeMetz, Sr.

    Ref 1: http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/10450/toyota/sienna/question-on-tsb-toyota-sienna-door-welds-causing-clicking

    Ref 2:
    Mike65401
    http://i1317.photobucket.com/albjms/t631/dude65401/sicnnadoor1_zspfb8b7d4a.jpg
    http://i1317.photobucket.com/albjms/t631/dud65401/siennadoor2_zps0ade6e9c.jpg
    From: Ask Toyota [mailto:toyota_cares@toyota.com]
    Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 3:07 PM
    To: fred@soundpathtech.com
    Subject: Re: Toyota Case #1504281240 [Incident: 150428-000163]



    Recently you contacted Toyota. Below is a summary of your contact message and our response.

    Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.

    Subject
    Re: Toyota Case #1504281240

    Discussion Thread
    Response Via Email (Jay Spencer) 05/01/2015 03:07 PM
    Mr. Demetz,

    Thank you for your follow-up email and your reflections on this specific situation.

    The failure rate for the door check is proprietary information and not something that we would be able to offer. Obviously a trend was seen early on which caused the warranty enhancement to be issued but the actual number of repairs is not available.

    You can be assured that Toyota does extensive testing of all aspects of our vehicles both for safety and longevity. Owner experience and consumer perception also play a role in our ongoing efforts to build the best vehicles. Contacts like yours are integral to this process, because there is no better source than a Toyota owner who takes the time to tell us like it is.

    Thank you again for your honest feedback. It is made available for review by our product planning and engineering teams.

    Respectfully,

    Jay Spencer
    Toyota Customer Experience Center
    Customer By Email (FRED DEMETZ) 04/28/2015 10:00 PM
    Dear Mr. Jay Spencer,

    The other aspect of the referenced Incident, is I’d be interested to know how many similar door failure mechanisms in the 592,000 vehicles during the production run from 2004 to 2007 have been reported?

    If this failure is as common as it appears to be, it means Toyota has not done enough reliability testing on vehicle prototypes. In my area of Southern California I have witnessed the testing of full-scale airline aircraft doors latching mechanisms, repeated thousands of times in facilities which specialize in reliability testing. Has Toyota done this type of testing on the Sienna Doors?

    The reason many people buy Toyotas is their legendary quality and reliability. To build and sell over half a million $40,000 vehicles whose doors will fail “under light usage”, and require an expensive repair, long before the rest of the vehicle goes 100,000 miles, suggests to me that Toyota needs to get some good reliability engineers who know FEA metal fatigue analysis of spot welded panels, and know how to test the design before production.

    Toyota’s adding 2 years or 100,000 miles to the 3 year/36,000mi warranty is nice, but not good enough. Assuming quality automatic welding equipment was used for consistent results, all these doors are doomed to failure, it’s just a matter of reaching the number of cycles until failure. In my case it was about 10 years x 200 days use/year x 10 cycles/day = 20,000 cycles in about 66,000 road miles driven on dry, sunny California freeways.

    Regards,
    Fred C. DeMetz
    Ph.D., Mechanical Engineering

    From: Ask Toyota [mailto:toyota_cares@toyota.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 10:53 AM
    To: fred@soundpathtech.com
    Subject: Re: Toyota Case #1504281240 [Incident: 150428-000163]


    Response Via Email (Jay Spencer) 04/28/2015 10:53 AM
    Mr. Demetz,

    I apologize again for the concern you are experiencing with the front door check on your 2005 Sienna.

    As we discussed, Toyota did issue a customer support program in November 2007 which extended the warranty coverage for the driver's front door check from 3 years or 36,000 miles whichever comes first to 5 years or 100,000 miles whichever comes first. The date of first use on your vehicle was November 17, 2005, so the warranty coverage ended on November 17, 2010.

    Please find enclosed a copy of the Technical Service Bulletin that details the suggested repair for the door check if it is not cracked or split.

    Your case is documented at our National Headquarters under file #1504281240. If you have any further questions, please contact us at 800-331-4331. Our hours of operation are 5:00 AM to 6:00 PM Monday through Friday and 7:00 AM to 4:00 PM Saturday, Pacific Time.

    Sincerely,

    Jay Spencer
    Toyota Customer Experience Center

    [---001:003298:02144---]
  • mkarias72mkarias72 Posts: 9
    I have this clicking on the driver side. Never knew what it was until I read this post. So Toyota will not fix this? I have a 2005 Sienna so any warranty would be expired by now. Is this a minor issue meaning its just a clicking sound or will the door fail to open/close? What is the cost to fix this? Thanks.
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Question on TSB: Toyota Sienna Door Welds Causing Clicking - Page 5 - Car Forums at Edmunds.com