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Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles

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  • Your best course of action might just be to trade it in or sell it to another Lexus dealer. My wife and I had a similar surprise when I tried to sell her old car to an independent used car dealer. It was a 1 year-old used Ford Escort hatchback that her parents bought her from a Ford dealership while she was in college. After we moved and got new insurance on the car, the insurance lady mentioned something about her car having been previously totaled (this was before Carfax was prevalent).

    I tried to sell it to an independent dealer, thinking that would be the easiest way to get a decent deal on the vehicle. The guy on the lot pointed out signs of repair from what looked to have been a significant accident. He told me that he couldn't buy the car because of the liability he might have to absorb at some point, and he couldn't afford that as a small independent shop. He then suggested for me to take it to a Ford dealer, saying that they would be big enough to not share his liability concerns.

    So I took the car to a Ford dealership and asked them what they would give me for it. I didn't mention anything about the repair work that the other guy showed me. I felt it was fair since the dealer that sold the vehicle to my father-in-law never mentioned anything about it either. Fair dealership trade-in pricing for that car in good shape was around $4,200-4,800 at the time. They looked over the car for a few minutes and offered me around $4,500.

    Since it sounds as though you are in a similar predicament, I would recommend that you do something similar. I'd be sure to play up the part about how you purchased it CPO. That way, I would think, they should give you a pretty fair deal.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    The only problem is the accident is showing up on Carfax. I guarantee they will check Carfax (or whatever database dealers use) before taking a trade in this environment.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    Lexus isn't alone w/ this provision.
    Remember that CPO warranties cover the mechanical aspects of the car, not the cosmetic.
    Some dealers won't certify a car with obvious paintwork, others will.
  • ny14337ny14337 Posts: 16
    Well it seems that I have sort of gotten to the bottom of what the issue was. I spoke to someone from Lexus Customer Service who asked that I bring the vehicle in to one of their service centers so they could take a look at it. I agreed but before I did that I decided to go back to the dealer who told me that repairs had been done on my car. I asked them to show me what they had noticed. I was told that when they appraise a vehicle, they use some sort of device that measures the thickness of paint on the body. When they used it on my car, the thickness of the paint on all of the doors was more than double of what it should be. This meant to them that the vehicle had some type of work done it. After thinking about it, I believe what happend was that the vehicle was not in an accident. When I initially looked at the vehicle 4 years ago, there were some scratches, chips, etc... on the doors. I mentioned that to the salesman and he said that they could all be buffed out and compounded out by their detailing guys. What happend in actuality is that they probably brought it to a body shop and laid another coat of paint on all the doors. It looked great, you couldnt see a mark on it and my wife was happy. I explained this to the dealer I was trying to trade the car into and he said that while that it was a likely explanation as to why there was all the extra paint, it still did not change his valuation of the car. He said that especially in luxury cars, which he places the Lexus in, any type of repair to the body, even simply repainting the door, will devalue the vehicle. Even if that were true, I'm still not sure why it would decrease the wholesale value by almost half. They use Galves in NY and the wholesale value of my vehicle should be approx. $11,500. Dealerships in my area are selling cars with similar mileage and options for anywhere from $15,500 to $16,250. The dealership I wanted to trade it into offered me $6,500. Thats almost a $10,000 swing. I guess I'll be selling it on my own.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    The dealer is correct that paintwork on a lux car will devalue that car.
    However, it is an 01 and the devaluing shouldn't be that much. A competent dealer can tell if the work was just cosmetic or structural.

    As for what dealers are ASKING for similar cars, asking isn't getting.
    Unless you have seen actual buyers orders, you don't know what dealers are getting for similar cars. The tendency when selling used cars is to ask the moon for them, it allows for big discount to impress the buyers.

    The big lesson learned here is, if you buy a used car with some chips or scratches LET THEM BE. You didn't buy a new car, you saved money and went used. Used cars aren't perfect, they are used. Painting a car is NEVER a good idea.
  • I recently bought a used car at honda dealership. Upon leaving, when the sales person handed me the keys, I remembered, they're supposed to give me 2 instead of one, so I asked him for the other one he said he couldn't find the other one right now, but if i come back on saturday, he should have it for me...

    um, and then i just looked at the driver manual today and it said im suppoed to have recieve a key code tag along with the keys (and i didn't get it that day either) the manual specifically said i would require the tag in order to get a copy of another key in case if i lose it in the future...

    uhh, my question is, since this is a used (second hand car). When I ask the dealer for those key code tag, would they make an excuse about the previous driver didn't give them one? and then they try to charge me for new key code tag??

    Do do you guys think/.?? im so cluless
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,271
    Its a used car. Its got what its got.
    You can ask for things, but they are under no obligation to provide them.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    Come back on Saturday??? Sounds like good customer service... not.

    He promised the extra set, so they are owed to you. You should have gotten it in writing before you left. Stay on them until they find or make you another set.

    I would think the dealership would be able to pull the numbers from the vin # if no key code tag.
  • hey thanks for your replies.

    well, is there anything else i can do? i mean, what if they refuse or something?
    or they try to make me pay for the extra set?

    some friends told me said i should ask to speak to the manager if they give me a hard time?

    oh, does anyone know the rules of selling a certified used car? like, if they are required to give out 2 sets of keys instead of 1? some sort of law to protect the buyer?
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 6,401
    "...is there anything else i can do?..."

    Go back on Saturday and ask for the key and the tag. If they don't give you what they promised, pull your car up so close to the front door that it prevents any customers from getting in or out of the building. Then take a cab home.

    When they call in a panic demanding that you move your car tell them they can move it with the new key they promised, otherwise you'll come back NEXT Saturday to move it for them, maybe. ;)

    2009 PT Cruiser, 2008 Eclipse, 1995 Mark VIII, 1988 GMC Van

  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    If they don't give you what they promised, pull your car up so close to the front door that it prevents any customers from getting in or out of the building. Then take a cab home.

    Yup, great idea. I'd just call the Fire Dept and have the guy cited and his car towed.
    Why does everything have to be confrontational??
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    Rule #1 is to always get everything in writing.

    It may be that they really don't have another key for the car and may not be interested in cutting you one.
    You can scream and holler all you like, but if they really want to be a-holes, you are SOL.
    However, most likely they will cut you a new key and you can go on your merry way.
    As for CPO, most CPO programs stipulate 2 keys. I don't know about Honda's.
    Of course, you would have had to buy your car as a CPO car to qualify.
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    Why does everything have to be confrontational??

    Just a guess... but I believe the old farmer was just joking. I believe the emotorcon, " ;) " conveys this quite cleanly. Besides, one saves the parking in front of the dealership door trick for more serious matters... like running out of coffee creamer.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,677
    You really don't need that tag. Most people throw them away.

    It just makes it a bit easier to duplicate a key, that's all.

    On trade in's quite often we don't get extra keys or owner's manuals. You get what we get unless arrangements are made at the time of the sale.
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,011
    A reporter would like to speak to someone who has recently bought a certified pre-owned vehicle after an extensive amount of research. Please respond by Friday, February 20, 2009 to jfallon@edmunds.com with your daytime contact info and a few words about your choice.

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • tencomtencom Posts: 11
    When a dealer "certifies" a pre-owned vehicle. Should we expect a formal documentation acknowledging the Warranty of the vehicle up to a certain mileage, say 100,000. Should the documentation also include the details of what's covered and what's not?
    I'm concerned that even if the car is certified, I might have problems with filing claims should problems arise in the future. Thanks in advance for your feedback.
  • First let me direct you to www.carbuyingtips.com. I am not affiliated with the site in any way, but whenever I am about to buy a car, I re-read everything, it's a great resource.

    Yes - when a dealer "certifies" a pre owned vehicle, 1) it should be written on your Sales Agreement, in addition to make/model and year, it should also be written that the car is CPO (Certified Pre-Owned). This means the dealership went thru anywhere from 120 to 161 points of inspection before certifying the car. 2) Most dealerships should have prepared brochures re: their CPO coverage. For example most things like wear and tear are NOT covered, (tires, brakes, oil changes) but engine repairs are. A dealers website will can give you what specifically their CPO coverage includes, mileage etc.
  • I am in the market for a car. I have been looking at the BMW 528i RWD. I found one I like with extremely low milage. While talking to the woman in finance she told me that I would have to put down a 10% downpayment because the last time I had a car note was so long ago that BMWFS considers me a 1st time buyer. She also shared with me thatno matter where I go or what I buy any finance company will require a 10% downpayment. Is this true?

    Please advise

    Thanks!
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 6,401
    How long ago did you have your last car loan? I went 22 years between car loans and got 100% financing just for the asking. My credit score was about 800 out of possible 850. How's your credit? Any black marks?

    They sound like they're being a little snotty. Why not tell them you'll meet them half way--you'll put down 10% if they drop the price 10%.

    2009 PT Cruiser, 2008 Eclipse, 1995 Mark VIII, 1988 GMC Van

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,271
    edited November 2010
    Simple fact is: a lender will lend you what the car is worth. That way, they are covered in case you default. My gut says the car is overpriced and that is why you have to put down 10% (to cover the hole you will be in and protect the lender).

    Depends on the lender how far they will go. Some use KBB, some use NADA, some use a crystal ball. I can say that, on my past 3 cars, my credit union has told me up front what they feel the car is worth and I've been buying them from dealers for far less than that.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • fezofezo Posts: 9,341
    My credit score was about 800 out of possible 850.

    And you call yourself a farmer.....
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    Oh, didn't he mention that his last name is Del Monte? :P

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,414
    Did you go looking for a used car and find that prices were so high that it made more sense to buy a new car instead? Or found that your trade-in was worth a lot more than you expected?

    If so, a reporter wants to interview you. Please email pr@edmunds.com no later than 3pm Eastern on Thursday, May 5, 2011 and include your daytime contact information.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • Will a dealership put a car in the Certified Pre-Owned Program if it has a history of structural damage from a documented accident?

    If they would , what is the point of the program? How worried should I be when buying through a certified program?
  • oldbearcatoldbearcat Posts: 170
    In the past I've checked out both Jaguar and BMW CPO cars. Both dealers told me that the cars have to have a clean carfax to be certified, and, that they would present me with a copy of the carfax report on any car I was interested in. I ended up buying a CPO Jag, and, as soon as I got back from my test drive, the salesman presented me with the report before we entered into negotiations. Most manufacturers list the details of their CPO program on their websites. I have seen dealers here list cars as CPO - but, they weren't true "factory -backed" CPO cars. They were simply cars that carried an aftermarket extended warranty that wasn't nearly as good as a authentic CPO vehicle. I believe this website has an overall comparison of everbody's factory CPO programs as well.

    Regards:
    Oldbearcat
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Nope.

    The car has to have a clean title history, Carfax accident reports are nonsense. I say that with a grain of salt, they devalue a car, but there's still lots of cars out there with previous structural damage and clean Carfax reports, meanwhile a scuffed bumper can cause a Carfax report to show an accident.

    Before CarSpace went down I had pics up of a BMW burnt to a rusty shell that had a clean Carfax.....
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    So does anyone have a link as to just how much information Carfax is able to collect? I mean how do they get their information, and is it the same from state-to-state? Given that it seems every computer database has significant problems - take for example the recent reports that 1 in 9 $ going to unemployment shouldn't have, I don't think I have much faith in carfax. Thomas (Tom) Kernich
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Carfax gets most of their information from police reports, rarely insurance claims. Also, from some body shops.

    Basically they do a really good job of advertising a relatively useful product, and do a great job of insinuating that unless the dealer you're talking to uses their reports that they are less than reputable.

    They make their money by charging dealers $1000s per month to sign up for unlimited reports.

    As for me? I've seen way too many cars at the auction with structural damage announcements and clean carfax reports to put much faith in their service. Plus, IMO, their marketing scheme is of questionable ethics.

    The one service that's a LOT more accurate in my experience is AutoCheck.
  • mary05mary05 Posts: 5
    .....And is any one else a little sick and tired of the whole " Certified" crap? Dealerships offering that term, coupled with a newer inspection sticker slapped on, as a selling point? I've had vehicles that were supposedly certified and inspected that needed hundreds of dollars of work done by the next inspection- usually brakes and rotors, tie rods, etc. When I asked someone who worked for a dealership, he said if the brakes have on just enough tread to pass inspection, they pass it. If anything else passes, even at the bare minumum, it has technically passed inspection, and therefore, certified that it was looked at. Certified does not mean they've replaced things like timing belts, serpentine belts, water pumps, had coolant system flushes and anything else -even if they're waaayyy overdue- if they ain't broke, if they have just enough brake pad tread to last for 30 days after you've bought it- that's all they care about. Wonder why no hotshot lawyer has taken up a class action lawsuit against this practice? Always ask for a record of maintenance. If it was a trade from someone who did not keep clear records, then it should be the dealer's obligation to REPLACE maintenance items, not just deceive people into thinking the vehicle has been properly maintained. If not, be honest and sell it " AS IS".
  • if a car is manufactured after the month of aug is it to be sold as the following years model ie; aug 2011 sold as a 2012 model. I bought a Chevy Van that was advertised and sold as 2012 but when pink slip came in the mail it shows that its a 2011.
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