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Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer?

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  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    One dealer I used to work at where I bought a car for myself, still calls me. It's usually new sales guys who don't know I worked there that start the pitch right away until I interrupt them.

    The managers don't look at lists, they just print them off and divide them up between sales guys.

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,623
    The store I worked at required that we make "old owner" calls every six months for I think, the first two years after the sale.

    I used to hope I got an answering machine.

    Some wer happy to hear from me, others seemed to just wonder why I would call and a few (very few) seemed annoyed.

    The idea was to keep our name in front of them. It was probably better than doing nothing but not much better.

    I have heard that some stores have managers tear pages out of a phone book and make their salespeople cold call people. I couldn't/wouldn't do that.

    A lot of stores treat their salespeople like little kids or like garbage. One local Ford store makes their salespeople stand outside in a row calling "Up's" as cars drive into the lot. If it's a bad " up" like someone picking up parts or selling something, that salesperson go's to the end of the line.

    A lot of stores turn their staff over every six months. They don't care.

    Then there are the stores where the "managers" sit in a "tower" on the showroom floor and watch everything like a strict teacher.

    Horrible!
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,870
    edited February 2013
    isell, I think you were very fortunate to work where you did for your whole career and have such capable management and owners. Your timing was also good, as you were able to exit when you did. The internet has made it a lot tougher on the sales folks I think.

    Tesla, for example, does not sell through dealers at all, just direct to the consumer.

    I sure am glad I got out of the rat race a few years ago.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    edited February 2013
    Isell, are you still in the business? I haven't been on the forums for a few years so I lost track of what everyone's been up to.

    Speaking of turnover, the worst place I ever worked at was a GM dealer.

    All their ads bragged how the salesguys can make $100k/year etc....

    When I started on the 15th, the whole dealership had all of 13 cars out for the month between the 16 salesguys there, meaning they would probably finish with 30 units for the month.

    There are 12 guys on the floor and 4 doing their own thing.

    Out of the 12 on the floor, 7 of them (me included) started working there the day before, 3 others have been there less than a month, one has been there 3 months, and the most senior guy about 20 years.

    So more than 50% of sales guys are new and 90% of them 3 months or less.

    I gave it a shot and stood outside at the dealership entrance to catch an up for the 2 days I was there, including a 9-9 shift one of those days. About 4 sales dept customers pulled into the lot over the entire 3 days, all were be backs or had appointments except 1. The rest were service customers.

    I caught one sales call and got the guy to come in only for the management to blow him away because they didn't want to estimate payments on a used car unless he put a deposit first. :sick:

    Edit: my sales manager told me to keep myself busy by you guessed it, calling a list of customers he gave me to see if they want to trade their cars. :sick:

    I finished the shift and left never to return. :shades:

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,520
    i don't know if they still do it, but in Japan car sales were sometimes done door-to-door. Not a great business model for the USA.

    Ding-Dong! Hi, I'm selling BMW 3-Series today at a great discount? Care to buy one? LOL!

    MODERATOR

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,880
    That would work at my house. :blush:

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    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,623
    Hey, it's good to have you back!

    I decided to push the retirement button 2 1/2 years ago and I'm glad I did.

    Yes, I got VERY lucky when I picked the store where I worked. It's family owned and we were treated with respect. They didn't rip people off or play games. We were expected to sell 20 cars a month and the top half of the salespeople usually did. It wasn't uncommon for us to sell 400 plus cars a month new and used.

    We didn't run "screamer" ads and turnover was, I'm sure much less than other places.

    And, did leave at a good time. I keep in touch with some of my co-workers and they tell me that. My last couple of years I lost interest and patience and my results showed. I still made good money but my heart just wasn't in it.

    I do a lot of community volunteer work now and that keeps me busy.

    Who knows, after a lifetime of retail sales and management I just might get bored and do something part time.
  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    Thanks, good to be back. YEah it's funny because a lot of guys I worked with who've been in the business for a while are looking at getting out.

    Although I'm always on the lookout for a management position, I would not go back to sales, it's just been a grind everywhere lately. :sick:

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,623
    edited February 2013
    Before my car selling days, I was a fairly high level manager with a Fortune 300 company. I had over 200 people to babysit and a 30 million dollar P& L.

    Through the years the pressure increased and we went through several "restructurings". People were having heart attacks and strokes.

    The final straw for me was the last restructuring when I was told I could take a lesser job and move at my expense to Chicago.

    I left and ended up making more money six miles from my home.

    I was home every night. No more constant travel, crowded airports, lonelyu hotel rooms and intense board room meetings.

    I tell our son..." The only thing for certain in your job will be change"

    The days of working your way up the ladder and staying with a company for 40 years, getting a gold watch and a pension are no more.
  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    The days of working your way up the ladder and staying with a company for 40 years, getting a gold watch and a pension are no more.

    I agree. I always have a few things on the go on the side, but right now I'm at home stress free and haven't been happier. I'm far from retirement as I'm in my 30s but now when coming up with ways of having an income I look at what will pay me the most with the least amount of stress. Especially after having a job with a fancy title at a local exotic car dealership but having to deal with a ton of stress and a GM that didn't "get" what my job involved as I was hired before he started.

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • Hi,

    I really needed to find some people that actually know what they're doing - because it's definitely not me :p

    I leased a new C-Max this past Wednesday; my wife and I just had a baby, and my car (a Fiesta) ended up being way, way too small for the baby + car seat + stroller + my wife's wheelchair.

    We actually went to look for the Escape, but I fell in love with the C-Max - and then I did just about everything wrong. I went for the SE because it had really everything I needed.

    My first big mistake was that I was in a rush - with my wife tired from her day, and the newborn baby with us (and fussy). I made the big, big mistake of focusing on the payment, not the price - and kind of accepted a payment that was about $90 more than my Fiesta's payment. I know we passingly talked about the sticker price of the car, but that was it.

    As I keep going, I realize I'm definitely the dumb one in this story - I know I did everything wrong in the book, and deserve whatever the outcome is if I really got ripped off...

    We signed the lease paperwork, etc. (which of course took forever, and both my wife and I made the mistake of reading through it but only focusing on the payments).

    When I got a chance to look at it in detail at home, it shows under "Agreed Value" of the car a price of $30,000 plus some change. The interest rate charged is super low, so the payment comes to what I expected - but it seems the dealer just flat out charged $4000 over sticker.

    I reached out to the sales person who said something about the residual value being the reason for the $30,000 price; after researching it more I really feel like I was just severely ripped off though.

    Again, I know: I did everything wrong in the book here, and I deserve whatever happened (I'm not an experienced car buyer). I just wanted to see if anyone can tell me if I really got ripped off as badly as I think I was.

    Mike
  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    Few questions:

    Were you leasing or financing your Fiesta? Did you have equity in it or were you upside down on it? If you were upside down on it it's quite possible the negative equity of the Fiesta was added onto the MSRP of the CMax making it seem more expensive than sticker price and the payments calculated from there.

    What was the sticker price of the CMax with the options you wanted? If you don't recall then go to Ford's website and build one on there to see.

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,268
    well, you would have to post all of the details to even jump to a conclusion.

    But, for your sake, I will say no, you did fine, now just enjoy the car for the next 3 years, your baby for the next 60 or so, and prepare better before your next purchase.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • Hi!

    I was leasing the Fiesta. On the Lease agreement it shows up as a even trade, with no money owed.

    The sticker (I actually have it in front of me) is $25,995. I know they added a maintenance plan and Ford's "Wear Care" for a total of about $1100 to the purchase price.

    The complete terms for the lease are:

    Monthly payment $399
    36 months long, $3000 down, $1750 in dealer incentives, Residual Value $14817, 10,500 miles / year

    Gross Capitalized cost including Wear & Care, Maintenance, and acquisition fee is 31,925. Net Capitalized cost is $27175 after the money down.

    The money factor is 0.00075, so effectively about 1.8% financing charge.

    On the itemization of the cost, "agreed upon value of the vehicle", is listed as $30,125 + cost for maintenance plan, etc...
  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    I was leasing the Fiesta. On the Lease agreement it shows up as a even trade, with no money owed.

    When was your Fiesta lease supposed to end?

    Sometimes trade ins will show as "even trades" on paper because banks won't finance negative equity in some cases. However the negative equity is just added to the MSRP of the new vehicle and it shows the price to be higher than MSRP.

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • That's a good point - the lease was ending next year. The amount that was supposedly paid off on it by the dealership matches with the pay-off amount from my last lease statement; but I was wondering about that as well.
  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    edited February 2013
    Well there you go, the money owing did not vanish into thin air to put it bluntly.

    If your Fiesta lease you said was about $90/month less so let's say $300/month. Times it by at least 12 months and that's $3600 that you still owed.

    Take the $25999 + $3600 + protection package + other fees etc = your $31000 price.

    I can see that maybe there's a $1000 squeezed in there for extra dealer markup but it looks like most of the additional cost are your previous lease payments.

    When you go car shopping for your next car just get the dealer to break down all the costs/price etc... so that there wouldn't be any confusion.

    You can still go back to that dealer and just ask them to break it down for you. I bet you it will look very similiar to my estimate here.

    EDIT: If the dealer bought out your car then the numbers could also look like this (just guesstimating about your Fiesta):

    Payout amount $15600 ($12000 residual + $3600 payments)
    ACV (Trade in value of Fiesta) $12000
    Negative Equity $3600

    $25999 + $15600 payout less $12000 trade in value + protection pkg, fees etc... = $31000

    Either way the bottom line would be same as my first calculation.

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • That makes a TON of sense. I just wish someone had broken that down for me. The thing that confused me is that the lease contract makes it look like a completely even trade with no money owed on the lease; but your calculation really matches up 100% with my lease payment and what I would have paid for the next year....
  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    Most people do exactly what you did though., Come in, get excited about the car, and when they are told it'll only be $90 more than their other payment, they don't look at the rest of the other details, sign the paperwork and drive away. The good thing here is that it doesn't appear you got hosed. And as long as you're happy with the car and the payments, and the overall deal then it's all good. :shades:

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,870
    Way to go boom...you leaving is going to be a huge loss for the car sales industry...and a big gain for where ever you land !!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    edited February 2013
    Way to go boom...you leaving is going to be a huge loss for the car sales industry...and a big gain for where ever you land !!

    Thanks! I'm working for myself so it's a gain for myself :shades:

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,623
    edited February 2013
    Coming in late here...

    boomcheck as usual, gave you good advice. You were responsible for the remaining lease payments and they simply rolled that money into your new lease.

    Did I read that you bought some kind of extended warranty? If so, go back and have them cancel it. You don't need it since your car will be under warranty throughout the lease. That maintence package I'm guessing may not have been explained to you so make them do that. It may or may not be a good deal depending on how much they may have marked it up.

    It sounds like you have learned some lessons here. Buyer's Remorse is something probably all of have had at some point in our lives.

    EDIT: It looks like you were sold something called "wear care". I think I know
    what that is. If you bring the car back with more damage than is allowed, it covers that gap. It is probably VERY expensive insurance and you can probably live without it and lower your paymennts in the process.

    P.S. What the heck is a C-Max?
  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    edited February 2013
    New Ford compact van/tall hatchback

    image

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,758
    P.S. What the heck is a C-Max?

    Hybrid or Plug In Hybrid only.
  • boomcheck, thank you again for restoring my sanity. I'm glad I'm just a mildly incompetent run-of-the-mill car buyer as opposed to the biggest [non-permissible content removed] in the universe ;) I actually showed in the system as having 13 payments to go; I think I always naively thought that when I stayed with the same leasing company, the cars just got more or less swapped and that's it.

    Either way, I'm glad I have the car now. Things actually fit, the ride is great, and I love the gas mileage I'm getting.
  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    I'm glad I could be of help!

    One more thing to remember is to make sure your previous lease gets cancelled and that payments don't keep coming off your account. Sometimes it takes a few days for paperwork and payout to reach the leasing company and a few more before they stop payments on your previous lease, unless your Fiesta lease was with Ford and the CMax lease is also with Ford.

    But just make sure all of that is in order as I've seen it happen before due to the time it takes for payouts to be processed and old lease/finance payments still keep coming out when they shouldn't.

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,623
    Looks good! Ford seems to be back on track!
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,830
    You could have maybe done better, but you could have done a lot worse. The best outcome is that you got a car that fits your needs and that you like. And, you didn't get hosed. We see plenty of folks who pay a bit too much, and then they don't really like their vehicle. That's not cool. Since leasing seems to suit you, you're always going to have a payment, so just make sure the payment isn't a budget issue for you.

    And - next time, stop by here FIRST and we'll help you understand the details before you drive away.

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,615
    Bought a car and the finance manager contacted a couple of banks for rates.
    I've heard the dealer can make some money on these loans by marking up the rate.
    Is their profit a fee or it it paid for over time?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,880
    Usually, the bank will pay them a fee upfront for writing a loan above the wholesale rate. If the loan is paid off before a specified period of time (90 days, usually), there will be a charge back (the dealer won't get paid).

    How much is it? It's usually the whole extra amount, discounted for present value. As an example, BMWFS pays a BMW dealer 70% of the extra amount over the "buy rate".

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    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

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