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Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer?

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Comments

  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    Of course it may be they just do not read well.

    That has to be it. No other logical explanation. Well come to think about it could also be selective reading.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,890
    That reminds me of dealing with those automated voice menu systems you get when calling cable/internet companies.

    Voice: Just speak your question.

    Me: I am having trouble accessing the internet.

    Voice: I understand that you would like to access your account information. Is this correct? Just say "yes," or "no."

    Me: No.

    Voice: Great, I am transferring you to our automated account information system.

    You didn't get a whole lot better, even with a live human being on the other end.

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  • ken117ken117 Posts: 194
    OF COURSE not all of us will shop the price. Really these days shopping a price is not necessary. I know I can always find several dealers who will sell me the same vehicle for the same price. The trick is to locate them. Using the Internet is the most efficient method to weed out the new age dealer from those dealers who remaining the four square selling mindset. GEE,ya think!

    The key for consumers is to locate a dealer who is willing to sell at a competitive price. Dealers who provide a competitive price in response to an Internet inquiry generally represent that dealer. The dealer most likely respect the intelligence of the buyer. Dealers who do not are probably best ignored.

    From a customer prospective, these days it may be the fastest way for a dealer to lose a sale is to not provide a customer what they request. This is particularly true of a price. Does a dealer want to be the one who never provides a price to any of ten Internet inquiries and then wonders why all ten bought from that dealer down the street or does the dealer want to be the one who provides ten prices and sells to three of those inquiries?

    Today's car buyer,particularly the younger ones, know they control the deal, not the dealer. Buyers who settle for dealers who insist on the old way of selling are becoming rare. Those dealers who embrace that fact will prosper, those that do not will become irrelevant.

    And really, how long will it be before the State franchising laws go the way of the T-Rex? Think of the money we could all save if we did not have to buy from a dealer! GEE, ya think?
  • karhill1karhill1 Posts: 108
    Gee,ya think, what to heck does that mean? People who sell vehicles are so arrogant, they actually believe they are smarter than we mere buyers! I guess such an attitude, though false, was necessary in years past for a person to get involved in sales.

    The fact is we buyers are getting smarter about auto sales each generation. We know the tricks car sales people use, we know about holdback, dealer cash, and invoices, we know about dealer reserve, we have seen the four square sheets, we know about the tower and the box, and we demand respect from the sales people if we are to buy.

    The simple fact is dealers who are open with us and who give us a price when we request o e will earn our business, those that refuse will not.

    The bottom line is we know the dealer needs us, we really do not need the dealer. This simple facts so very hard far too any dealers to grasp.
  • verdugoverdugo Posts: 2,012
    People who sell vehicles are so arrogant, they actually believe they are smarter than we mere buyers! I guess such an attitude, though false, was necessary in years past for a person to get involved in sales.

    Generalizing like that is not fair to the good salesman out there.
  • karhill1karhill1 Posts: 108
    Well, my experience has shown sales people in the past did generally believe they were smarter than we mere buyers. Hence the lovely terms they used to describe us. I am sure some of today's sales people recognize reality. They are difficult to find.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    Well, my experience has shown sales people in the past did generally believe they were smarter than we mere buyers.

    No need for them to believe as they were smarter than the average buyer. Years of training in the trenches, working the 4 square, negotiating with more buyers in a month that you would in ten years.
  • karhill1karhill1 Posts: 108
    Bingo, you substantiated the point.

    Do you really think years of "working the trenches" makes a sales person smarter than the average buyer. Of course you do, you are a salesman. Our point exactly.

    The use of a four square simply allowed the sales person to resort to a well planned set of deceptions which were essentially orchestrated by the man in the tower.

    The simple fact the average buyer has caught on to the tactics of the sales person along with the back end issues in the F&I office is clearly causing a great deal of consternation among our sales person friends. Much of that is due to the information provided by Edmunds.

    Personally, I do not need more than one deal to know more than the sales person sitting across the table. I am smart enough to know it is my deal, my money. Seems more and more folks are learning that simple fact.

    But if you continue to BELIEVE you are smarter than me, great. That assures I will get a better deal. Never good to underestimate that person sitting across the table. They may not be as ill informed as you believe.
  • billy3554billy3554 Posts: 147
    Best to allow auto salesman think they know more than their customers. That permits those few of us buyers who are as smart as they, yes there are a few of us, get better deals.

    Yes Obyone, some of us can compute a lease payment without the assistance of the smartest salesman, the one in the Box.

    Bought a Nissan years ago. Offered a price almost immediately. Was rejected by the sales folks. Spent several hours with this group of folks who were smarter than me. As I was leaving, totally confused by the sales manager's knowledge gained via his many years in the trenches. However, he took one last try and offered a deal which was reflective of payment.

    I guess this smart guy figured I, as a dumb buyer, did not possess the smarts to understand what he was offering. The reality was it was he who did not understand what had taken place.

    I thought for a moment, still blinded by the by the salesman's knowledge and said OK. A few minutes later they brought the paperwork. The salesperson, not the smart manager, looked up and, with some surprise, said the smart manager had sold me the vehicle for less than I had offered initially. I said yep and just smiled.

    I learned a lot that day.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,744
    I've never heard a salesperson say that they think they are "smarter" than a buyer but I've seen a lot of buyers who seem to think they know the business better than we do.

    " Knowing" about holdbacks, dealer cash, incentives can be a goos thing but knowing all of this won't buy a car.

    Cars sell for what the MARKET dictates. If it's a dime a dozen car that a store has 50 in stock with more due to arrive, of course they will take a skinny profit.

    If it's high demand car that is in short supply they will hold out for more profit knowing they will have little trouble selling that car to the next shopper.

    It's like anything else. Would a person cheap sell their house in a tight Buyer's Market?

    " We know the tricks car sales people use"

    Oh, I know those tricks too and our store didn't pull those tricks. Maybe that's why the store I worked at has been the number one Honda store for over 30 years in nine states.

    Maybe that's why the bulk of my business in my later years there were to repeat and referral customers.

    Shoppers walk in with arrogant attitudes too and they, too play tricks.

    I used to tell my price shoppers to simply let me know what they were hearing before they pulled the trigger. I never lost a sale over dollars UNLESS I wasn't given a chance to respond to a honest quote.

    It doesn't have to be a miserable process but some stores and some shoppers can certainly make it that way!
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    edited June 2013
    Arrogant prospects get low balled. Plain and simple. The relationship between a prospect and a car salesperson doesn't have to be adversarial less of course the car buyer chooses that path. Buying a car is simple people make it much more complicated than it is.

    I noticed all the sales people have moved on. Guess no need for them as we now have all these self appointed consultants to simplify the buying process.

    You would be surprised as to how well 4 square works. I personally know a 38 year veteran that still uses it. Why? cause it's simple.

    Ever heard of the Bobst method of car acquisition?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,744
    Yep, a lot of "experts" in some of these forums to be sure.

    I always treated my customers like family and like I would have liked to have been treated.

    Honestly, if I got an arrogant one that I couldn't win over (and, I was good at doing that), after awhile I didn't care whether they bought a car or not.

    These were the same people who would trash us on the surveys. They were never happy and they would leave thinking they somehow paid too much or got cheated.

    I used to love the comments on the surveys..." The whole process took way too long"

    Well, it took so long because they MADE it a long, miserable process!

    And, yeah, arrogant people DO get lowballed. We never did this but I could see why other stores did. They would get a phony price and then spend DAYS trying to do even better.

    I could only hope they would come back to me and often they did.
  • avatexrs1avatexrs1 Posts: 60
    I live in Dallas County, Texas and the new car I'm interested in purchasing and picking up is in Houston, Harris County, Texas. How and where will the dealer register the title for the car?
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    These were the same people who would trash us on the surveys. They were never happy and they would leave thinking they somehow paid too much or got cheated.

    Sounds like a grinder but not quite a Jipster. ;)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,744
    Jipster would have been fine to deal with.

    I wouldn't have minded having him as a customer.
  • ohenryxohenryx Posts: 285
    I live in Austin County, and usually buy my vehicles in Harris County. The dealers register the vehicle in Harris County, and then when the plates come due I just renew in Austin County. Is there some particular reason why this matters to you? I know the insurance varies quite a bit, but my insurance company goes by my place of residence, not where the vehicle was titled.
  • verdugoverdugo Posts: 2,012
    Hey craig, just reading some of the latest reply makes me understand some of the stuff you had to deal with. I couldn't do it. :sick:
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,744
    It's not easy and it's getting worse.

    Most stores are miserable to work at and they treat their salespeople like garbage.

    I got lucky in that regard and I made more money than when I was a fairly high level corporate manager. I didn't miss the constant travel, pressure to excel, meetings, hotel rooms etc.

    It was only in the last couple of years in the car business that I lost interest.

    A lot of customers walked in with attitudes that they didn't seem to have in the past. I know you see these people posting in these forums and that is what I had to deal with. It got old. I took a look at my finances and decided to pull the plug a few years earlier than I had planned.

    I miss my co-workers and great customers but I don't miss the jerks with the attitudes that seem to feel we should run a non profit.
  • verdugoverdugo Posts: 2,012
    Your store def. lost a great salesman.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,744
    Thank you for saying that. A lot of others have left too.

    A lot of stores literally turn their entire sales staff over every three months.

    My store still has a lot of it's "core" people left. Like I said, it's a family run store with great management.

    Had I gone to work anywhere else I wouldn't have stayed long.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    When I bought a Regal back in '97 it was from a family owned store. I purchased the car from the youngest salesman who was 58 and found out the oldest was 76. Talk about surprised.
  • avatexrs1avatexrs1 Posts: 60
    edited June 2013
    At least one dealer gets the Internet and e-quotes.

    I just closed on a 2013 Acura ILX Premium, polished metallic (grey) with black leather interior. The dealer provided a great price initially in response to the "e-price" link on their website, responded immediately by email in response to a request for an OTD quote, and negotiated the entire transaction in about three phone calls. I never actually went into the dealer, having test driven the model when I had as a service loaner and someone else going to the dealer to pick up the vehicle. Used FedEx to sign the papers and deliver the purchase price via cashier's check.

    The deal:
    $24,988 Sales price
    1,620 Sales tax
    149 Dealer doc fee
    143 Other taxes/title
    $26,900 Total OTD

    Comparisons (without taxes and fees):
    $28,790 Edmunds TMV
    $28,137 TrueCar
    $26,600 CarsDirect

    I paid less than what I was quoted for a base model a month ago. With the 2014s now on the lot, there are great deals on the 2013s.

    This is the future for a lot of buyers: using technology to avoid the hassles of the four square, the 30+ minutes of sitting there waiting for the sales guy to "talk" to the sales manager, etc. that many dealers like to use when you're there in person.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,043
    Gentlemen: A member posted this "interesting" question in our ANSWERS department and I was wondering if you'd be kind enough to think about it and give an opinion, so that I could convey this back to them---they seem to be in a bit of a jam. Here's the question as posted:

    "Bought a car approximately 30 days ago. The dealer called and stated that the original contract had gotten destroyed in transit to the bank by UPS. They are now wanting us to resign the contract which I do not feel comfortable with. Since there's apparently no contract can this sale be null and void? At this point with all the hassle I would just like to give the car back and be given my down payment back, without it going on my credit history as a REPO. I've since investigated the dealer which has had many issues. They have a score of a D+ with the BBB. Am I obligated to resign this contract?"

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,744
    First of all, I have to wonder why it took so long for them to find this out?

    To me, it looks like the buyer is trying to use this mishap as a reason to back out of the contract they agreed to.

    I'm not certain of all of the legal aspects but it isn't that unusual for a contract to need to be re-signed.

    The buyer had use of a new car for a month and now they see an opportunity to back out?? They really should see an attorney.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,432
    sooo... buyer wants to return the car because there is no contract. But the buyer wants the down payment that is shown on this same missing contract returned. Just a tad of a double standard here. If I was the dealer, and the down payment was significant enough, I'd gladly let the buyer back out and keep the down payment. Null and void, right? That works both ways!

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    What is the dealer to do with a used vehicle that was once new. Resigning a contract with the same terms isn't a reason to unwind a deal. Looks like this buyer is looking hard at a way out of the deal. If the dealer has a D+ rating the buyer may have figured that his deal wasn't such a good one to begin with.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,043
    thanks for those replies. This is an odd one, isn't it? Makes me wonder what the WHOLE story is, on both ends.

    I think I'm going to tell them to talk to an attorney if unwinding the deal is what they really want.

    The contract can't be "lost" to the computers as well, or else they couldn't ask for it to be re-signed.

    Are contracts actually hand-delivered in paper anymore to banks?

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,744
    Yes, that's the best advice.

    Something doesn't sound right here and to me, it look like the buyer is grasping at straws in an attempt to weasel out of the deal.
  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,680
    Think we need to hear both sides before we crucify the buyer, which I can see has already started. A shame that the 1st thing that salesmen say is that the buyer is fishy but the dealer is above reproach. Old stereotypes live on no matter how each side says things have changed. A bit disappointed here!

    The Disappointed Sandman :( :sick: :shades:

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,744
    Disappointed again?

    I think I said "something" sounds not right here.

    Only a sloppy store would not react to not being funded on a deal until after 30 days.

    I don't think I "crucified" anyone or say that dealer was "above reproach"

    After a lifetime in retail management I will admit to becoming cynical at times after having seen every trick in the book played.

    I learned that to some, the value of a handshake means nothing. Not the way I was brought up.

    Had you spent almost 14 years in the car business I don't think you would be feeling so disappointed.
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