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Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer?

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  • okay. so pretty much exactly this happened today. I went to my local dealer.
    He lowered 210/month to 180/month. First month:650.95(bank fee)+325(dmv)+59.46(tax bank fee)=1055.41
    The other 35 months come out to 35x180=7350

    The thing is he didn't let me take the paperwork home, despite mine asking several times, I had to write it down on his business card.

    My friend told me that's sure sign of trouble.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,025
    It's not unusual that they don't want you to take the finished paperwork home, until you commit to the deal... That makes it easy for you to shop the deal all over town.

    Just write those numbers down when you go to pick up the car.... and, if it's different, head for the door..

    I think you did the right thing... you took that broker deal into the dealer and they matched it... no point in putting a 3rd party into the transaction, if you can get the deal yourself..

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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,851
    What kyfdx said, plus if you took the contract away, you could do all sorts of unscrupulous things with it, like post it on the internet.

    Now, if you asked for some extra time in the dealership to review the terms of the contract and they refused and just pushed for you to sign it before reading it, THAT'S a bad sign.

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  • I sent the above deal(honda dealer) to the middleman broker. He came back with the following:

    "I can do the same If not better but not thru Honda financial bank".
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,295
    one thing to keep in mind if the deal is basically the same $. At the end, you will be taking it back to a dealer, and if it is through them (HFC) you might have options for an early buyout, no fee trade in, etc.

    of course, who knows if they are better or worse in terms of fees and stuff at the end.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,025
    Independent banks generally suck at lease end... You get dinged for everything...

    Stick with Honda Finance lease..

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  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    Up here in the Northeast the Credit Unions are jumping into leasing thru dealerships. In some cases they are super strong. One example is the 2014 Mazda3, our local credit union beats the factory program by $60 per month with the same terms.
  • ohenryxohenryx Posts: 285
    Why do all new car dealers (or perhaps I should say all new car salespeople) insist that you must give them "perfect scores" on the evaluation or else it doesn't count? I have personally encountered this from Chevy and Ford, and asking around among my friends and co-workers I hear it is common for other brands.

    I was taught, in school, many decades ago, to toss out the "outliers". If any survey result comes back with all answers pegged at the top, throw that one out. Same if all answers are pegged at the bottom.

    So what exactly is going on? Have they all been told by their bosses to repeat this story in hopes of maximizing their survey results? Or is it really true, any result less than perfect doesn't count? I find the latter really hard to believe, right up there with "clap to save TinkerBelle". And don't tell my granddaughter that I said that last part, or I'll have to kill you!
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 3,775
    Oh dear.

    This is one of the most contentious topics here.

    Yes, many of the manufacturers have instituted a "pass / fail" system for the surveys. Anything that is not a top score is treated as a zero, and will affect dealership and salesperson compensation.

    The dealers and salesfolks want us to collude with them to 'game' the system by asking that we provide nothing but top marks. Some dealers have been known to bribe the customers.

    Yes, this flies in the face of how statistics are meant to work.

    I agree with you that this is wrong, that the purpose of the survey is to provide honest feedback to the dealer about what went right and what went wrong with the sales transaction so that the dealer can make improvements.

    Unlikely that there will ever be any changes.

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,642
    The way surveys are graded is horrible and the manufacturers don't care.

    On a scale of 1-5 a 4 is a failing grade.

    Teachers and engineers were the worst.

    Yes, there is always room for improvement. Nobody is perfect.

    A customer finds a flyspeck in the paint and gives a 4 in that category and it kills the store and the salesperson.

    Horrible system!!
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,670
    Many restaurants are the same way...O'Charley's, IHOP and Longhorn are 3 that I frequent and if the server and the restaurant do not get PERFECT marks, they get a zero...I believe that is simply worse than unfair...if the bathroom was out of paper towels and you gave them a 4 (out of 5) on that item only, the other perfect marks for the restaurant (as a whole) and, especially the server, are a zero...

    If I had a problem with the management I would speak to the manager, and if I had a problem with a server, I would tip less than my usual 20% and inform the manager of anything she/he did poorly to rate the lower tip...

    If I fill out the survey, I will give them the high marks...if I am not pleased, I simply will not fill it out, rather than give them a bad score...I would almost never avoid the restaurant, simply because these are the places I go because the food is (usually) good and the service is also (usually) good...
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    Let me give you a real world example....the survey allows the customer to rate the questions 1-10 but the carmaker doesn't tell the consumer that only some questions really carry weight and that anything less than a 94.5 is a failure. 10= truly exceptional 7=outstanding 4=average 1=unacceptable....so based on this if the consumer marked the surved 7=Outstanding across the board the consumer would assume its a pretty good grade. the manufacturer OTOH would send out all kinds of red alerts. The dealer could be penalized by the manufacturer financially and allocation reduced, sales person financially harmed and possibly fired.

    The survey is rigged against the dealer, salesperson & service advisor and the consumer is caught in the middle....but the car manufacturer holds all the cards and they make the rules and its rigged like a traveling carnival game.
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 3,775
    The dealer could be penalized by the manufacturer financially and allocation reduced, sales person financially harmed and possibly fired.

    The survey is rigged against the dealer, salesperson & service advisor and the consumer is caught in the middle....but the car manufacturer holds all the cards and they make the rules and its rigged like a traveling carnival game.


    From the above statements, it seems to me that the manufacturer doesn't really care about honest feedback designed to improve weaknesses in the dealership experience - that the survey is simply the method by which bonuses and inventory are determined.

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  • ohenryxohenryx Posts: 285
    I have a really hard time believing all of this. There seem to be a number of people saying that it is true, and no one contradicting it. But the whole thing sounds so outrageous that I have a very difficult time accepting that it is true. Very difficult.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,851
    It is a HORRIBLE system that poses an ethical conundrum for me each time. I review a fair number of products, places, and name specific individuals who have exceeded expectations or disappointed me. I like to reserve the "all perfect" score for items/places/people who have truly exceeded all expectations. Otherwise, a 10 out of 10 is meaningless.

    For example, my last two auto purchase transactions were an 8 out of 10 for me. They met all of my expectations, but there was nothing special - I got in and out quickly and got a decent price. That's what I expect. The transaction before that, however, was a 10 out of 10 - the salesperson told me to go home, go to the manufacturer's website and print out a $500 off certificate, and return with it (this was after we had agreed on a price, so the $500 was an additional discount off that). He didn't have to do that, and risked me never returning or taking the price and shopping it. 10 out of 10 for trusting that his professionalism and courtesy would make me come right back (and I did).

    However, I know the system and had to give others the same perfect score. Not really fair at ALL.

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  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    Your right...the mfg. may not care or otoh has no real ability to tell a privately owned buisness what they can or can not do as long as the mfg dealer agreement isn't violated. Also, Some of the largest volume stores have the worst CSI and the mfg often just looks the other way. CSI really matters to the smaller locally owned stores that survive on repeat and referal business. The dealer who has a $2m per month ad budget never runs out of people to screw..

    A dealer near my that has the worst reputation openly tells customers they can get a free tank of gas for a perfect survey and bingo, their scores are highest around. On the other side of the coin I have had customers try to hold me hostage for freebees with threats of a bad score. Each time I just tell them answer as honestly as they can.
  • Can anyone here run a vehicle history report/carfax real quick for me.....pretty please.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,851
    Hi koctailz,
    We can't ask others to do that. It isn't an appropriate use of a purchased history report subscription to run those reports for free for just anyone, as they're a fee-based service.

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  • ok, thanks....i tried.
  • I have been researching CPO BMW 3, Mercedes C, and Infiniti G37. I was looking at the Carfax. I looked at a lot of them. All of the BMW and Mercedes CPO vehicles never went through auction expect for 1. The G37's pretty much all did go through auction. I have heard that certain BMW dealers are required to buy a certain amount of lease returns from BMWFS. I don't know about Mercedes and Infiniti. So are the BMW's at auction just the crap...lemon law buybacks, accidents, etc that they cant sell cpo. is there someone on here who is an actual car dealer who has some real facts on this?

    the reason i am asking about auctions is that i know of a couple dealers who go to manheim and adesa and will buy a car for me for a fee/spec. it sounds like a great idea, but not if i am getting the stuff no one else wants.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,295
    sometimes it is cars that don't get snapped up at the BMW dealer sale, so maybe too miled up or old for CPO, but plenty of BMWs get traded in elsewhere and could end up at the auctions.

    as long as the buyer knows what they are doing, not really any riskier than getting one at a BMW dealer, probably for a lot more money.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • Hi all,

    So I am looking to purchase a used car and I came across a 96 Honda Accord at a good price. I got the VIN from the seller to run a check, and I get "no records". That has never happened to me before. And I don't mean that the VIN is invalid. It is valid because when I put in an invalid VIN it actually says "invalid". However, in this case the VIN is valid but isn't displaying any records. It literally says "no records". What would cause this? What does this mean?

    Thanks in advance for your help.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,586
    What's the VIN? Sometimes people put in an O (letter) instead of a 0 (number).

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  • The VIN is 1HGCD5615TA144013.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,149
    nadia....I'll defer to Mr Shiftright because he's much more knowledgeable than I am. But, the brief look I had with your stated VIN looks like it's a '96 Honda with mileage that is stated differently, in two different places.

    Unless it's uber cheap (and it should be), it could be a number of things. First thing I thought of was it's a "chop" job...different engine, chassis, body numbers. Could be wrong, but that's the first thing that popped into my mind.

    Is this a dealer selling this? Or, is it an individual? Ask the dealer if the title is clean. Is it a salvage title?

    No matter, just from the VIN, something seems dicey about it. Plenty of nice, older Hondas out there. I'd pass on this one.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,586
    i couldn't make any sense out of it either. I'd ask to see the title.

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  • i have read online that summer months july and august are best time of year to buy a used car as that is when inventories tend to be the highest. any truth to this?
  • Thanks for tine information guys. It is a private seller but I googled his telephone number and it appears he sells a lot of used cars... I'm going to leave it alone. The car is listed for $1600 but I don't trust it.

    Finding a used car has been so nerve wrecking for me. I always ask for the VIN and insist on having a mechanic to take a look at it (I even offer to bring the mechanic there since many sellers refuse to let the car leave their property), but I cant win, lol. Most sellers don't even reply when I simply ask for the VIN. Guess it's a lot more people selling crap than I thought. Thanks again for your help.
  • I live in the SF Bay Area..specifically Silicon Valley. The economy is booming here. I am in the market for a luxury used car and the prices in my area are very high. All the fairly priced cars I see are on the east coast/midwest/florida. Is this sort of regional price difference common?

    Also, I have read summer months are best months to buy due to inventories being the highest...true or false?
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,295
    car prices certainly are seasonal/regional. Not just $ wise (you are in an expensive area of course) but weather (want a convertible in New England in December? Subarus in Florida?

    If you don't mind a road trip, widen the net and see if you can find exactly what you want a bit farther away, and go get it. Hey, if you save enough, it might be worthwhile.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

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