Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer?

13567110

Comments

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,926
    Good answer but why not let the customer take a look at the black book when they are negotiating? Then we wouldn't have to grind so hard. Could it be that the dealer does not want you to see what the used car they are trying to sell you sells for at auction?

    This little black book is one of the reasons why people do not trust dealers. If they wanted to be completely transparent they would leave these things laying around for you to take a look at.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • I always suggest to my customers to take an average of the three most widely used vehicle valuation soruces; edmunds, kbb and nada. I ask them to be honest about vehicle condition which is usually at best "fair" condition.

    You'll see that all three are very different but when averaged out, they are pretty close to Manheim reports, also know as MMR.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Posts: 1,996
    Noone is ever happy with their trade-in value anyhow, lol.


    I never get a hug when I give some one their Actual trade value.... :cry:

    I had a guy last night who had a 1999 Ford F150 XLT, 4x4, V8, extended cab. Now I always ask what the milage is before I go out to the vehicle and he tells me 160k. Now I know what you are thinking, the same thing I was ... This truck must be worth alot :P .... Now when I go out to the vehicle his odometer isn't working. i have notice that to be a common problem with the Ford trucks with the electrical display.

    I offer him $1500. The truck runs a little rough, can't prove the milage, needs tires and God only knows what else... Now here is the best part... He thinks it is worth $6000. I ask him where he came up with that KBB ( I am just guessing), Edmunds?? He says nope.... That is just what I think it is worth. I love that line. I ask him if his aware of the situation of the so called gas crisis and the financial crisi of the country? He says yep. And than he says that's how he knows I am going to give him all $6000 and also take $5000 off a Murano because we (the dealership) needs to sell cars and he is going to take advantage of the situation :lemon:

    Thats when I reply "No problem I understand what you are thinking but I am only going to take $2300 off the Murano and I went all the way up to $2000 for his vehicle. You probably already guessed that he was going to have to think about that offer. I told him no problem we would think about too. Needless to say he isn't answering any calls today on the last day of the month which is fine because I think we were a little high at $2000 for his vehicle :lemon:

    GP
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,736
    i am pretty sure it was on one of these forums, someone posted a link to their cu, which has a link to the 'black book'.

    use your search skills to find it. :P
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Posts: 1,996
    we can't expect too many honest answers any more, Huh??


    You lost me.... Who can't you expect honest answers from?

    GP
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Posts: 1,996
    This little black book is one of the reasons why people do not trust dealers

    I don't believe that to be true. I have showed the black book numbers to people, I have showed the galves book to people.... Ya know what? It doesn't matter if I show it or not because people are going to believe what they want to believe anyway.

    Lets say the dealerships left this book lying around. Do you think it would make a difference? No... it wouldn't. You can look up invoices on line... here at Edmunds... does that help? in my opinion I think it complicates things sometimes. The reason I think that is because now that everyone knows that info they want to pay invoice or less. So now you want to know auction values. Than people will want to pay invoice and auction value leaving no room for profit... It is already bad enough that KBB's and edmunds are higher than actual auction values.

    Let me ask this question.... If the consumer did have all the exact information.... What would be a fair profit for a dealer to make?

    Salespeople at dealerships everywhere want to know ;)

    GP
  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    He wants to get retail for his and pay wholesale for yours. Nice. Ask him for a dealer's license, and maybe then you can talk turkey,

    I showed book values numerous times to people, and they always look at the cover, and look at the back of the book, for some reason they think we printed it at the dealership for fun wiht our own magical numbers in there. :confuse: :confuse:

    I think I told this story before but I'll say it again.

    Guy wants to buy a Civic and trade in his beat up 10 year old Neon. The Neon's odo is not working, the windishield is cracked, the brakes make noises, the car is a junkyard candidate. It's also 5 speed manual.

    He wants $3000 for it. We offered $500. He says he'll get more for it elsewhere. I say ok. He comes back in a week and says he'll take $1000. I show him book value. It's worth $350, BUT deduct $500 if not equipped with an automatic tranny.

    I tell him, if you want to trade it in, you have to pay me $150!!! He then said he'll take the $500.

    So we did a deal and everyone was happy. :D

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • for stating what we already know, if the guy I sold an A8 to last month found out I got a $100.00 spin from Audi for seliing that 08 A8, he'd probably want a cut of that as well.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,050
    The different price guides are attempting to reflect different things is the problem but they don't explain that very well.

    A private party buyer isn't going to see Manheim prices on the street

    A private party buyer will see considerably lower prices than KBB high book.

    A private party seller probably won't see those Trade-in values posted online, on a dealer's offer.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • bmmeupbmmeup Posts: 29
    I told him no problem we would think about too.

    Now that's funny!
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,753
    Guy wants to buy a Civic and trade in his beat up 10 year old Neon.

    I hold no qualms about what my trade in will be worth. It will be a 9 year old car with close to 170K miles on it. The only real thing is some minor damage from an accident that I never got fixed. I took the insurance money and put it in my account for my down payment. Since the insurance company paid me almost $1,300 my guess is that I will come out ahead just by pocketing the money for a down payment. I'll be happy with $500 for it as a trade in allowance considering its age and mileage but I will try for more. :blush:

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • corvettecorvette United StatesPosts: 4,140
    Between the high interest rate on the Audi and their reputation for needing costly repairs, they need to pay it down and dump it as soon as the payoff is below what they can sell it for. BF seems to still have decent credit. GF will probably have to BK to get rid of the foreclosure deficiency judgment if they live in a state that allows deficiency judgments. Either way, their next car will probably have to be bought and financed in BF's name.
  • I'm in the process of purchasing a 2008 EX-35, which features xenon action headlights. The sales person hasn't done a good job explaining how they work. He stated that the lateral movement on the headlights only functions when the vehicle is moving at 15 mph or faster. Does anyone have an accurate explanation?
  • ventureventure Central PAPosts: 461
    Let me ask this question.... If the consumer did have all the exact information.... What would be a fair profit for a dealer to make?

    I think it would depend on the retail value of the new car (I'm not talking used here). The last car I bought was $34k retail. I offered the dealer a profit of $1,000 including the trade. I must have been wrong because he then tried to steal my trade. :surprise:

    2014 Fusion, 2013 Impreza, 2011 Forester

  • greanpea68greanpea68 Posts: 1,996
    I'm in the process of purchasing a 2008 EX-35, which features xenon action headlights. The sales person hasn't done a good job explaining how they work. He stated that the lateral movement on the headlights only functions when the vehicle is moving at 15 mph or faster. Does anyone have an accurate explanation?


    In other words you have to be driving the vehicle. It is not going to move if you are just driving around a parking lot.

    GP
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    They are dynamic turning lights, right? They don't turn unless you are going faster than 15 mph. Pretty simple. The turning lights are not necessary at slow speeds and would just end up being distracting.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    Good answer but why not let the customer take a look at the black book when they are negotiating? Then we wouldn't have to grind so hard. Could it be that the dealer does not want you to see what the used car they are trying to sell you sells for at auction?

    This little black book is one of the reasons why people do not trust dealers. If they wanted to be completely transparent they would leave these things laying around for you to take a look at.


    It really doesn't matter. Customers will believe what they want to believe.
    If their favorite source is higher, thats what they will believe.
    I've had customers in my office while I'm on the phone w/ a wholesaler, they STILL won't accept the trade value.

    BTW, car dealers don't want to and don't need to be transparent. What we pay for cars, what we put in your trade is none of your business. The only thing the buyer needs to be concerned with is what we are OFFERING you. If you don't like the deal, walk away.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    What we pay for cars, what we put in your trade is none of your business.

    I'm not sure it's all that black and white. An informed customer wants to know what the market is for that vehicle and that is best reflected in the price others are willing to pay and have paid for the vehicle. What could be more relevant to market pricing than what you, as a dealer, just paid for that very same vehicle? :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,750
    Sorry but I agree with volvomax.

    What a merchant, ANY merchant pays for his product is none of anyone's business. The item for sale either represents good value to the buyer or it does not.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    I'm not sure it's all that black and white. An informed customer wants to know what the market is for that vehicle and that is best reflected in the price others are willing to pay and have paid for the vehicle. What could be more relevant to market pricing than what you, as a dealer, just paid for that very same vehicle?

    The market for a car is not determined by what a dealer pays for a car.
    If you buy a new car, and market price is MSRP, it doesn't matter that the dealer invoice is $3000 less. You STILL have to pay MSRP if you want the car.
    Same thing w/ a used car. If I get a car for free, I'm still gonna sell it for what the market will bear.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,750
    That will always determine what a commodity item sells for.

    I like the free car anology.

    What if we won a contest and Honda sent us a free Accord?

    Would we sell it for 1000.00 and be happy to have made 1000.00 or would we sell it for whatever the prevailing market was?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,050
    Since when did Price Guides take on the authority of the Holy Bible?

    Price Guides are simply that... GUIDES...they are not prices set in stone.

    Everything....EVERYTHING is negotiable in the car biz, for dealer and customer.

    My attitude about price guides?

    1. All used cars are different

    2. They put me in the correct $5,000 + or - grouping.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,890
    No, not at all. But if I can look at auction prices for a particular vehicle of a particular make/model, I, as a consumer, get a general idea of what the dealer paid for it. I can then take a GUESS (and yes, it's a guess) at what kind of offer a dealer might find attractive. Sure, there are cars that need reconditioning. But if I've got a ballpark idea of what a dealer would pay for a particular year/make/model, I might adjust my offer.

    You get a free Honda? No, a logical person is not going to believe you'll sell it for $1000 just because that would be "profit." But they *might* believe that if you got an offer for it today at $500 off the selling price on one you paid auction value for, you might just sell it because it represents an attractive profit AND a quick sale.

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,750
    But the average person can't access auction results and even so, the auction numbers reflect average ranges.

    Then there are transportation charges, reconditioning etc...

    And, yeah, if we really were to recieve a free Honda, we just might make someone an extra special deal.

    I'm not holding my breath on that one! ;)
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    Since when did Price Guides take on the authority of the Holy Bible?

    Well, mainly because the people behind this website and others like it have conditioned the public to believe that the information here(and on these guides) IS gospel. ;)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,050
    Nah nah that's not what Edmunds says about its True Market Value pricing.

    Price guides don't kill people, people kill people :P

    But generally I'm with you dealer guys on this one. Why should a customer CARE what the dealer paid? The car, being used, is different than any other car, even one identical to it, down the block.

    So each car has to be regarded as speaking for itself.

    Look at it this way. If a car is exceptional, the dealer paid more to get it.

    I've been to dealer auctions and sometimes I even think dealers pay too much. But they "see" a profit in the car. Maybe they know something I don't. Or maybe they won't be in business in 2 years.

    Dealers make mistakes, too, and get buried in a car just like ordinary people. The recon is more than they planned.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274


    I've been to dealer auctions and sometimes I even think dealers pay too much. But they "see" a profit in the car. Maybe they know something I don't. Or maybe they won't be in business in 2 years.

    Dealers make mistakes, too, and get buried in a car just like ordinary people. The recon is more than they planned.

    Yep. We've all paid too much for cars. We've all lost money on cars.
    U/C managers get fired every day because of this.
    It's nobody's business but our own.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    What a merchant, ANY merchant pays for his product is none of anyone's business.

    Why? Just because you declare it to be so? What the merchant pays still looks to me to me to be one more thread in the fabric of the market and customers can use all the information they can get.

    Yes, the item for sale either is a good value to the buyer or not but knowing what the dealer paid will help to determine the true value. If I see that you're selling it for twice what you paid I'm definitely going to reassess my valuation of the car. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,750
    We disagree but that's fine too.

    I recently bought a new refrigerator for our garage and I couldn't care less what the store I bought it for paid for it and even if I did care, it's really none of my business.

    I really don't think cars are any different. But, that's me.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,050
    Any object that is bought or sold will have a kind of "bell curve" of points of sale.

    On one end, you'll have the outliers in the "bargain" department, where less than market price was paid; on the other end, outliers who paid way too much and who will be punished by the market.

    But that fat, sweet spot in the middle is the "real" market, so IMO what the dealer pays on one particular car is only a database of one, not enough for the consumer to establish the value of his car, or the car he is buying.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

Sign In or Register to comment.