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The Rebirth of Buick.........

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,045
    Here's bumpy's picture from a post a couple back.

    Nice Buick!!!

    image
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    "......Really, it makes much more sense for GM to take the trend it started (with the GM-DAT purchase and 10 years of production relocations to Mexico) to its logical conclusion and start building all Buicks in China for export to the U.S. Not the other way around."

    Well, a couple theories here. If (IF!!!) GM intends to keep Buick here and market it as entry level premium, could importing them give them a bap rap, as people in the US perceive that Chinese made goods are of a lower quality and lack the control of harmful chemicals (ie; lead paint in toys)?? Many people laughed a couple years ago at the thought of Buick being perceived as high quality luxury in China, but as we have come to learn, it's no joke. Perception IS reality, whether it's true or not.

    Another loose theory. Could part of Hyundai's sucess in the past 12-18 months be due to the fact that people who could normally afford the $20,000 or so Camry or Malibu are now opting for a $16,000 Sonata in order to cut back some, yet still get that new car??? If so, could part of the reason that the new LaCrosse is flying out of the showroom (outside of it being a new model) be that a comparably equipped model is several thousand dollars cheaper than a Lexus or Acura, thus allowing people to buy new (and American), yet still cut back the payment somewhat??

    Also, I'd assume it costs very little to ship to China these days. Think of all those EMPTY cargo ships heading back to China. I'll bet the shipping companies would like to start sailing full both ways ;)
  • srs_49srs_49 Posts: 1,394
    Call the Lucerne replacement a Park Avenue!

    And there goes the image Buick is so carefully trying to craft ;) . Here's what i think of when a Buick Park Avenue is mentioned:
    1. Big
    2. Bloated
    3. Living room on wheels
    4. Zero road feel
    5. The kind of car my 85 year old FIL might consider

    If Buick is really serious about reinventing itself, it needs to stay away from many (maybe not all) of the names from the past.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,847
    Nice Buick!!!

    Good looking car, from the front at least. It's enough to make me consider going over-budget the next time I buy a car! And even now, every once in awhile I throw around the idea of trying to find a nice used/leftover new Pontiac G8.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,120
    I'm starting to see quite a few G8s around here. There must be a lot of people who feel the same way. I think the G8 is the nicest looking Pontiac in a long time.
  • ingvaringvar Posts: 205
    It looks good and it drives good for it's price.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    If Buick is really serious about reinventing itself, it needs to stay away from many (maybe not all) of the names from the past.

    I will second that, and will add that naming a new Buick a Regal is a bad idea. They should just come up with something new and luxurious-sounding.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,847
    An all-new name probably would be for the best, but if they're going to dredge up an old name, "Regal" probably has the least baggage associated with it. My only real issue with it is that the first thing the name "Regal" conjures up is a nicely appointed, upscale coupe. However, a sedan was offered along with the coupe for most of the Regal's lifespan. The name was first used in 1975, and a sedan was offered in 1975-77, 1982-84, and 1990-2005 or whenever they quit making the Regal. In contrast, the coupe was offered consistently from 1975-96.

    And as of a few years back, when it was still in production, the Regal was the most "youthful" Buick sedan, with an average buyer age of around 57. While that might sound ancient, for that class of car it's really not, when you consider that teens and twenty-somethings, for the most part, don't shop for mid- or full-sized cars. I think the average buyer age for the Intrepid was around 45, and that was probably about as youthful as a mid/full-sized car got!

    However, while the Regal's average buyer age was around 57, the LeSabre was more like 67, and the Century and Park Ave were around 70!

    I always liked the name "Electra", but to me that's better suited for a bigger flagship car. Maybe that would be a good replacement name for the Lucerne? I can see how a name like "Park Ave" can come off as old and stuffy, but "Electra" conjures up images of something smooth, sleek, and voluptuous...even if the old Buick Electras didn't always fit that description!
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,120
    ...when you consider that teens and twenty-somethings, for the most part, don't shop for mid- or full-sized cars.

    There are exceptions! ;)

    How about Invicta? It was a short-lived but pretty cool Buick name.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,045
    I don't believe there's anything wrong with the "Park Avenue" as a name. It will depend on the demogrpaphics to whom you are directing the car. As andre1969 points out, not many single kids in their twenties are shopping for a full size sedan with ability to carry people and luggage in comfort, so aiming the naming at them is a waste of money.

    I would like to see a leSabre replacement. I don't need a Park Avenue and that eventually cooled me on the Lucerne. The lower price end was not as fully equipped as the higher-priced models.

    As for "Park Avenue" meaning no road feel, sofa, etc., as an earlier poster posits, they haven't spent much time in a recent Park Avenue. You can have full comfort for a 7 hour trip with one stop and arrive without feeling like you've been beaten up by tar strips, sunken pavement pieces on the interstate, etc.

    It looks to me as if the new LaCrosse has combined quality features into a slightly smaller and well-equipped package. I'm afraid to go test drive one.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,847
    I never really liked the name "Invicta". Sounds too much like a combination of "Convict" and "Indict". Wildcat was a cool name, though, and so was Centurion. I thought LeSabre was a good name too, but probably has too much of a senior citizen aura attached to it these days. A lot of 40-50-somethings probably bought LeSabres back in the day...only problem is, those very people kept right on buying them, but were now 60-70+ somethings and buying them less frequently, while not enough "new" 40-50-somethings were buying them, as they were probably going for Acuras, Lexuses, BMW's, or Hondas and Toyotas (note that Toyota often gets referred to as a Japanese Buick)

    And yeah, Lemko, as I typed that statement about teen and twenty-somethings tending to not buy larger cars, I did have you in mind! :P
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,847
    I would like to see a leSabre replacement. I don't need a Park Avenue and that eventually cooled me on the Lucerne. The lower price end was not as fully equipped as the higher-priced models.

    One thing I appreciated about the LeSabre, and the older Park Avenue, is that they got pretty good fuel economy, and weren't so heavy that they strained the 3800's performance. However, the Lucerne seemed to push the limits of the 3800, and and suffered a bit in both fuel economy and acceleration. If you went with the V-8, you got good performance, but a further hit to fuel economy, and you also got hit with a noticeable price increase.

    In reality though, it wasn't a huge hit in fuel economy. I think the LeSabre was rated at 20/30 and the Park Ave was 19/29 (less if supercharged though), while the Lucerne was something like 19/28 with the 3800, before they started with those dumbed-down 2007 ratings.

    I wouldn't mind a nice, low-mileage used LeSabre or Park Ave. Only problem is, they've both been out of production long enough that it's not like you can just go and find a nice 1-2 year old example anymore and get an almost-new car at a fraction of the price.

    As andre1969 points out, not many single kids in their twenties are shopping for a full size sedan with ability to carry people and luggage in comfort, so aiming the naming at them is a waste of money.

    Actually, I did take a little bit of ribbing when I bought my Intrepid. I was 29 at the time, so about 15-16 years (or more, if I was wrong about its average buyer age) below the median buyer age. I remember one of my friends, who had a Civic, asking me why I bought a car like that..."it just screams FAMILY", he commented. Coulda been worse though...or better, depending on your perspective. A week or two before I bought the Intrepid, I went to a dealer to look at a '94 and '96 Caprice, and was kinda hot for the '96.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,045
    LeSabre is a name that probably has less "goodwill" attached than Park Avenue has.

    I see lots of younger people buying used Park Avenues and leSabres and Bonnevilles that are in their price range. What effect will their ownership of a used Park Avenue have on their openness to buying a vehicle in the future with the name Park Avenue on a new offering from GM?

    In this region, used Auroras, Park A's, leSabres, Bonnevilles, Rivieras, and others all seem to be very popular as lower price purchases. I've seen lots of great-looking Auroras and Rivieras that have been traded in for something or sold outright by owners who must have kept them in their garage and driven them only on Sunday. They are really good looking. Some are being urbanized with larger wheels, but most are kept more or less original.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,120
    When I was 19, I bought a 1979 Buick Park Avenue
    When I was 22, I bought a new 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic
    When I was 24, I bought a new 1989 Cadillac Brougham
    When I was 29, I bought a new 1994 Cadillac DeVille

    I like Buick's traditional names: Special, Century, Super, Roadmaster, and Limited.

    Well, Century's a no-go. Century used to refer the to the "Banker's Hot Rod" when Buick put the big Roadmaster engine in the lighter Special in 1936- sort of a proto-muscle car. Today, "Century" has the perception of the average age of its drivers.

    Roadmaster's an excellent name blighted by the failed 1992-96 car. Still, I'd love to have a 1994-96 Roadmaster with the LT-1 derived engine.

    I think "Special" would still be a great name for an entry level Buick - entry level meaning something like the current LaCrosse and not what is essentially a low-end Chevrolet with the tri-shield slapped on it!

    I've seen "Super" used on recent trim levels of the LaCrosse and Lucerne.

    Limited should be reserved for the ULTIMATE Buick - I'm talking LOADED Lexus LS level. Buick Limiteds were once a preferred conveyance of royalty.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    I thought I was the only one:

    17 - 89 Grand Marquis
    20 - 98 Olds 88 (total lemon didn't last long 9 months)
    21 - 2000 Toyota Solara (how'd that happen?)
    21 - 79 Continental
    23 - 89 Town Car

    Now 31 and drive a Genesis after two Japanese Buicks (Avalons)

    Love the big "boats" I took plenty of heat from my friends for my car choices. Would also love the idea of big RWD Buick, GM has the hardware to do it.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • I don't care for the name "Special" because over the years, it was the least special of the Buicks when the name was in use. Having said that, I do like my red and white 1954 Buick Special and it is special to me.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,167
    "...However, the Lucerne seemed to push the limits of the 3800, and and suffered a bit in both fuel economy and acceleration. If you went with the V-8, you got good performance, but a further hit to fuel economy, and you also got hit with a noticeable price increase."

    The newer 3.9 may be a good compromise. Being a 60 degree V6, it should be smoother and more refined than the 90 degree 3800, even though the latter has balance shafts. It's probably a little quicker than the 3800 too, and less front end heavy than the V8. Don't know if the 3.9 is as rugged as the 3800, though.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,141
    How about Skylark?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Skylark? The worst Buick of the last 20 years? Are you kidding?

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • berriberri Posts: 4,141
    But in the 60's and 70's they were some of the sharpest coupes and convertibles on the road. Also a great combo of luxury and sport. You're right about the X car version however! When you think about it, GM pretty much wrecked every great, classic brand name they had. Talk about lost intangible goodwill assets from their balance sheet.
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