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Hyundai Genesis vs. Audi A6 vs. Lexus GS vs. BMW 5 series

2

Comments

  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    If you're interested in the Jag, there is someone in the Jag XF forum who is about to take the new XF or the 535.

    Only if you're interested, otherwise, good luck with the 535i.
  • bruceomegabruceomega Posts: 250
    FWIW,

    I have an '08 535Xi.

    On the road, I have gotten as high as 30 mpg at a somewhat steady 74 mph. I typically average about 25 mpg on a trip with no effort to be frugal with the gas pedal. Trip computer shows overall average is 19 mpg, local and highway combined.

    I really like Logic 7. It's much better than the standard audio system in my wife's '06 X3.

    What I like most is Lexicon's Logic 7 surround sound processsing. When engaged, it seems like you are listening in a larger environment than the physical confines of the car itself, and provides a more natural ambiance.

    Thanks
    Bruce
  • art234art234 Posts: 103
    Thanks for the insight. The current thinking is going to be the BMW 5 series vs. the A6 from Audi, which I really liked. The BMW would, however, be a 528, which while not as fast as the 535, is adequate for my needs. My dealer just got a new one in with Logic7, but I have to add the Satellite and CD changer--the hard drive models won't be in for a while and will not likely have the incentives.
  • mobiusf1mobiusf1 Posts: 15
    hey sounds great. Question, have you driven both the 528i and 535i? Just saying, b/c to be honest, the 535 is far faster and gets very similar fuel economy. When your buying a car like this then the extra money shouldn't make that much of a difference because you should get the car you want. Don't compromise. I'm just saying this from my experience. But if your fine with the 528i than all the power to you.
  • art234art234 Posts: 103
    I have decided to wait it out a bit longer....I technically have 3 months left on the Infiniti M lease and in a worst case scenario my wife is willing to drive the M--leaving me with an RX400h which I love.

    I can order a new BMW the way I want it and it would be in just about in time...or wait for the Audis to be updated with the HDD nav system, which is coming for 2010--but I heard they may arrive early.

    I'll keep everyone posted.
  • adamjmankadamjmank Posts: 10
    I am driving my genesis 3.8 for 2 weeks now 1400 miles on it.
    Very disappointed with the bumpy ride ( bounces a lot ) and the dealer has no explanation for this. The car I test drove was not as bumpy. On the streets and highway around the dealership.
    I drive to work on highway 35 miles each way on concrete highway. makes it very bouncy for a 36000 car.

    I replaced my lexus with this and the same trip was much smoother.
    I also feel the rear wheel genesis 3.8 accleration is very less compared to the car I replaced.

    the car itself looks gorgeous in looks. I am still waiting for a resolution from hyundai. for now i am riding it with reduced air pressure although it doesn't help much in ride comfort.

    The tight ride (minus the bumpyness) can be compared with a BMW.
  • 5539655396 Posts: 529
    "The Accord is sportier and fun to drive!"

    Funny, I just tried out an 09 V6 and thought it was nice but uninvolving, Maybe I drove too many BMW's. Then again, I was talking to the salesman. Better they should just shut up while you're driving. I thought my 86 Accord coupe was fun, but didn't handle. A flexy flier. It may have been in a wreck as the body was not solid.
  • 5539655396 Posts: 529
    Mercedes E-Class and Infiniti M

    Mercedes has had horrendous quality problems and sounds like the battery drains down in just a few days. Infiniti M got rave reviews from Jin Healey @ USA Today, but gets horrible gas mileage.
  • 5539655396 Posts: 529
    My daughter has an 06 Sonata, replacing a 97 Camry, one of which we also had. My first impression was that it didn't measure up to the Camry and the ride was too stiff. I drove it again last week and didn't notice those things, except that the seat doesn't go back nearly far enough. She loves it, esp the V6. Performs well. Give the Genisis some time. I'll keep my wifes 03 Avalon with KYB GR2 struts and Energy sway bar bushings, and 31 MPG. Totally different car after the changes. Big change in feel when we replaced the standard 15" wheels with the 16? summer mags too. Fun now. Details in the Avalon forum.
  • prema1prema1 Posts: 21
    I was a life-long BMW driver. I had a 325, 328 and most recently a 330Ci. I was looking at upgrading to a BMW 550i, when I decided to test-drive a Lexus GS460.

    I was totally blown away by the Lexus. Superior build quality, superior handling (with the standard active suspension on the GS460), better steering experience, much more intuitive user interface (I love the touch screen), and much more engaging styling inside and out (matter of taste but comparing them back to back, the BMW design seemed outdated).

    I should comment more on the handling. I am a performance driver. I used to take my 330 to the track. What impressed me about BMW historically is that the suspension is good in almost every setting. Other cars are tuned either for comfort but don't corner well (Benz E500, Genesis) or for performance but give you a jarring ride on bumpy roads (Infiniti M45, Audi A6). BMW 550 has a great balance of comfortable but performance oriented ride. However the GS460 is much better. The cornering experience is much superior due to the active suspension which holds it flat in sports mode. You really feel like you can throw the car around and engage the curves. In comfort mode, the car deals with the bumpy city streets much better than the BMW without losing its basic sportiness. Coming from a BMW330Ci (one of BMWs best non-M cars) I was blown away by the Lexus driving experience compared to BMW.

    The other factor was the electronics. I found the BMW iDrive totally distracting. In my old car tuning the satellite radio was really a pain. I love the intuitiveness of the Lexus touch screen. It's no iPhone, but to draw an analogy, the Lexus feels like using an iPhone while the BMW feels like using a Windows Mobile phone. They deliver almost the same functionality, but the Lexus system is so much easier and more pleasant to use.

    The only downside with the Lexus is the factory tires are not as good as those on the 550 if the 550 comes with Pilotsport 2s. I just upgraded the tires on the Lexus to Michelin PilotSport 2s and that closed the gap. With these tires the Lexus is smooth, grippy (strikingly so in the rain) and has great road feel.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ... BMW 550 has a great balance of comfortable but performance oriented ride. However the GS460 is much better. The cornering experience is much superior due to the active suspension which holds it flat in sports mode. ...

    You do know that the ('08+) 550i Sport has Active Roll Stabilization (ARS)? It's the same concept as the Lexus system you're praising. You must not've been driving the 550i Sport or it was older than '08.
  • rjj718rjj718 Posts: 5
    I leased a 2009 Genesis Sedan (V 8 with techno package) a week ago yesterday. Today (with less than 500 miles on the vehicle) I was driving it down Alligator Alley in Fla, two hours from home, in the middle of an afternoon rainstorm. Suddenly, with no warning, things just went off -- lights, dashboard lights, windshield wipers, window controls, door lock controls, all air conditioning. It was raining so hard I couldn't see. If it had been dark, and without lights of any kind and no wipers, I would have been dead. The hazard lights wouldn't even work. It was a miracle that I made it (slowly and stressfully) to my exit, but the car totally died a mile from home and had to be pushed off the road. Has this happened to anyone? Does anybody have any idea what this could be? Perhaps I got a lemon. I sold a Mercedes to get into this car, and up to now I was very happy with it.
  • 5539655396 Posts: 529
    No clue here, but I would be interested in hearing about your Mercedes experience in view of their reliability problems with models after say, 2000. What year and model did you have? Any reason other than price for not buying another?
  • rjj718rjj718 Posts: 5
    I bought the R350 in March of 2006. The vehicle was a dream for long distance/interstate travel, which I do a lot of in my business, and roomy for transporting customers and their luggage, etc, from the airport. The third row seats were rarely used as they were rather cramped. People loved the sunroof that extended over the back seat. In-town driving was sluggish and rather ponderous. I should have gotten the more powerful engine. I had to get rid of the vehicle because of ongoing problems with the electrical system. The navigation/sound system display panel, while beautiful, was a problem. It had to be replaced 3 times. The navigation system itself wasn't great and therefore rarely used. Air conditioner control buttons stripped out on a regular basis, despite careful handing, and had to be replaced several times. There were other problems with the air conditioner--it totally went out on me twice, which is a misery in South Florida. I went through 3 batteries in 3 years, which is not normal in my opinion. The interior had some minor appearance problems -- the tabs on the air conditioner vents broke, seat belt covers fell off, the steering wheel was a nice wood but the parts of it coated in sliver flaked off. My local service center was fine, and all of these problems were voluntarily serviced under warranty, except for the batteries, but for the last year I had the car they eliminated the Mercedes loaner program and switched to Enterprise rentals. For what you pay for a Mercedes you really don't want to have to drive a Focus stinking of stale cigarette smoke around town while all of these issues are attended to. Any of this sound familiar?
  • 5539655396 Posts: 529
    "Any of this sound familiar?"

    Yes, that's why I asked. I wondered if they had gotten their act together. How could Mercedes have sunk this far? More importantly, why haven't corrected their quality problems after all these years? Between them and the American car companies, they have made it a walk in the park for the Asian manufacturers to become dominant. Shame on them. Now they're paying the price. Arrogance can do that.
  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    After reading the above 2messages, I found 1more reason to trust lexus.

    I was expecting the hyundai genesis to be a nice car, but what can I say now. :blush:
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Hey...bmlexus...have you driven one personally or are you simply going by other people's opinions???

    No...the Genesis isn't a BMW, nor is it a Lexus...however...for the money you spend and what you get for the money, it's not merely a nice car....it's a great car (for the money). Can't touch anything like it for the money! ;)

    The first mistake folks make (imho) is they are expecting it to be just like a BMW, Benz, Infiniti or Lexus. Early on, it was stated that the 5-Series and E-Class were the benchmark of the Genesis. That merely means that those were the cars that set the standard that Hyundai was shooting for when they created the Genesis. Considering this is Hyundai's first attempt...I think they did remarkably well. Take one for a spin and you'll see what I mean.
  • 5539655396 Posts: 529
    "I was expecting the hyundai genesis to be a nice car, but what can I say now. :blush: "

    It might be prudent to see if there is a pattern here and if so, how they stand behind it. Probably not wise to condemn on one report. Probably not my cup of tea, but I'm impressed how they came of the cellar on their first attempts, zoomed right past American companies and rose to the top of the quality ratings. I give credit where credit is due.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    I found 1more reason to trust lexus.

    If you read on here and on the "genesisowners.com" website you will find that the vast majority of Genesis owners have had little or no problems with their Genesis. Mine has been problem free except for an alignment issue (not the car's fault) and one loose clip on a dashboard trim piece.

    The Genesis is not a perfect car, but, like others have mentioned a lot of car for the money. I could think of a few improvements... but that could be said of ANY car.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • 5539655396 Posts: 529
    My impression is the same. I wrote the 528 off my list. Totally different experience. Thrashy, far less performance. Only the 535 for me.

    Still, my 03 Avalon gets up to 31 MPG runnung 80 with a load. 27-29 is more typical if windy etc. though. I would take a hit there with the 5 Series. Guess the fun factor would have to make up for it, but after upgrading the suspension, I don't feel I'm missing much there either (See 04 and earlier AV & suspension mods).

    I just tried out a Cad STS AWD V8. Rather drive the AV, but the STS felt much heavier. Guess the ES 350 is still top of the list as I can always do the same suspension upgrade on that with KYB GR2 struts and Energy sway bar bushings.
  • Did not drive, but checked out an A4 and an A6 yesterday and studied the brochures and web info on both. The A4 appears better equipped than the A6 and almost as big inside. Both smaller than the Genesis and smaller than my Azera.
    Biggest problem is that neither is up to the Asian standards on features and electronics. Even after you load up with most expensive packages and options.
    Sales manager recommended I get the $770, 3 year maintenance package if I purchase. In otherwords, maintenance will be expensive per the manual.
  • rk2469rk2469 Posts: 30
    I need a confirmation. Such incident is so rare. If it did happen, I need more than 1 report to confirm it.

    This single post isn't sufficient enough. I wouldn't dismiss it but such thing happens with other cars, including Lexus. I think, this anecdotal post is a rare and does not represent the total view.
  • rjj718rjj718 Posts: 5
    To follow up: Problem not resolved. I contacted the dealership from which I purchased the vehicle. Two calls went unreturned (Mon the 17th). On Tuesday the 18th the same thing happened with the car -- system failures resulting in total inoperability. I must say that once I got the car to the dealership, I've had fantastic communication from my service rep. He's been cooperative, informative and honest. Fortunately they're not minimizing the seriousness of the problem with this particular vehicle -- if they did they would have one angry customer. Their Genesis techs are baffled but working hard to fix it. All day Tuesday when the car was with them it ran fine, then a manager went to drive it in the evening and incident #3 happened. I truly do not believe that this is characteristic of the Genesis, and yes it could happen with any vehicle. I think it's rare and a fluke, and I also feel confident that Hyundai will fix the car. I've done a good deal of research on the web and not found a similar experience.
  • dulnevdulnev Posts: 652
    If you like Avalon and considering ES 350, check out the 2010 Buick Lacross. Never thought I would suggest a Buick to anyone, but you have to see this car to believe it. It is beautiful inside and (mostly) out, and is choke full of technology and features not available on BMW, Audi or Lexus that cost $20K more.

    I wouldn't want to buy it because the driving experience is supposed to be similar to the Lexus ES, but that seems to be what you want.
  • 5539655396 Posts: 529
    Ah, but have they solved the resale problem?

    If I bought an ES 350, I wuld probably do the same suspension upgrades that I have done to my wife's 03 Avalon as detailed in the 04 and earlier Av forum. Handles much more like a BMW now and is more fun to drive. Tried out a new Cad STS AWD V8. Heavier feel, but I prefer the AV. Don't like the Cad steering feel. CTS too.
  • Rather than wasting money on suspension upgrades for an ES350, I would just spend $5000 more and get a GS350. GS350 has superb handling, a more powerful engine (I think it is because of direct injection), and drives as well as a BMW. No front wheel drive car will match that.

    On the Genesis - I agree its a good car and don't believe reliability issues are widespread. But a Hyundai dealership just can't provide a premium service experience. I went in there, and just did not want to deal with a service guy who barely speaks English and has a gold tooth. Its just not confidence inspiring. Plus if you ever need a loaner you get stuck with some crappy 4 cylinder hyundai instead of getting a Lexus ES350, IS250 or RX350 loaner which is what Lexus offers. I think Hyundai was extremely naive in trying to start a luxury car business without separate dealerships.
  • 5539655396 Posts: 529
    "Rather than wasting money on suspension upgrades for an ES350"

    Well, if $$$ were no concern.......... but I can do the suspension upgrade for 1/10 of that and still have a fine car. What does one really need? As opposed to what would I like to have. Guess I'm just too practical. That's why I will buy when they come off 3 year lease and the price is down. That initial depreciation is like flushing the money down the toilet. I have no debt and I want no debt. Personal choice. Don't like paying others for using their money either. Also like flushing it down a toilet. I pay cash because of what I have saved doing it like this. Takes discipline and not for everyone but it works great for me.
  • I also have no debt, no leases, pay cash and get really good deals. I was simply making the point that suspension upgrades cost money upfront which are pure depreciation because they aren't worth much of a premium to used car buyers.
  • rocketdan1rocketdan1 Posts: 2
    edited September 2011
    for those who had minor issues/turn off about Genesis suspension , now have little to say with the 2012 version.

    Already own the Genesis coupe and ready soon to trade it in for a family sedan with some sport. (infinity M, BMW 528, Genesis)

    Took the coupe in for service and test drove the 2012 Genesis 3.8 and color me impressed.

    I was already impressed with the car when it was first born, but the 2012 drives even more refined and looks even better.

    It is no longer a pre tender and is a real option when cross shopping vs bmws, infinitys, mercedes imo (other than for brand image, which hyundai is improving upon every day). Because the price for it is low, it can also be an option for buyers interested in semi luxurious cars like maxima, avalon too.

    Pros: Refined to respectability, suspension is on par with the best in its class, handsome looks (last years model rear tail lights not aging well, front grill doesn't blend in well with rest of the car), best car you can buy for the money

    cons: Interior could be more modern, 8 speed auto geared towards smooth and gas saving vs 6 speed zf which was better for "sport".
  • 5539655396 Posts: 529
    So what did they change about the suspension? I wouldn't buy one the way Hyundai's were. Too jiggly.
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