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2009 Toyota Venza Crossover

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  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    looks so much more appealing to me (in so many ways) than the Highlander. Thanks, alpha, for the roof height numbers. So the roof is about 5 inches lower. Should do wonders for handling improvement/top-heaviness reduction.

    Is it an actual hatchback, or is there a rear deck behind those back seats?

    As for the 2.7, the current 2.4 makes 160+ lb-ft, so I would think it is not a stretch to imagine that the 2.7 will make at least 180 lb-ft, same as the engine in the Taco. It might be slightly reduced if they have to tack on more downstream stuff to reduce smog emissions.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Go to the pressroom, there's plenty of pics there. link title
  • la4meadla4mead Posts: 347
    Very appealing at first look, indeed. Thanks Macabee for the link with lots of specifics. It looks so much like the RX, I wonder how closely related it is.

    I noticed that it has a (light-duty, but rated nonetheless) 3500# tow rating (with V6), which is a plus.. even if you never tow, at least you know the mechanicals were engineered with an extra margin of duty in mind. And even better, that killer sunroof (very important to me).

    Since they are giving the impression of "sporty" handling, I hope it's true. At nearly 190" long, and well into the 60's tall, it's still a bit bulkier than I'd like. Maybe they will offer an "SE" or a model with handling package and possibly lower ride height, like the Camry. ;)

    I don't think there's anything wrong with a Camry-based wagon, as long as it's offered with a better handling package than a typical LE with the marshmallow, pillow-top bed ride that tips around curves. But this "crossover" still seems aimed at SUV buyers looking for increased ground clearance; still a bit on the tall side, rather than those looking for sportier, more fuel efficient alternatives.

    Come on Toyota/Lexus: Where are our (U.S.) sporty wagons? Even in limited numbers, it's not like ALL Americans want the same thing (SUV's, Sedans, and bigger is better?) and there are buyers.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    They had a sporty wagon, the IS300, however it didn't sell well. Subaru dropped the LGT Wagon due to lack of sales.... :(

    -mike
  • wc1wc1 Posts: 11
    If I can come to grips with that hideous-looking console/shifter AND if this is priced less than an equally equipped Highlander AND if it gets better mileage than the Highlander, this Venza is sitting in my driveway this fall! This car looks like a squatted Lexus RX and looks to be a better package than the 2009 Murano. I was a Highlander person all the way but the Venza at least has a speedometer in the CENTER of the cluster and it has factory satellite radio, so it tops the Highlander on my list.
  • la4meadla4mead Posts: 347
    It's true the IS (tiny inside and only automatics) and the very fun Legacy GT (and I also hear the Mazda 6) "wagon" bodys were dropped or didn't make the redesign for US and that it was attributed to "lack" of sales. However, it's more like they can make more $ off sedans and SUVs here. I mean, it's not like Lexus or Subaru didn't sell every one made, or lost any money on them, and they still have a following.

    The Venza seems like it will be just another (improved, however) modernized version of the same formula as so many other models available: Soft, tall, heavy (mid-size) SUV with lux features, and perhaps only the smallest concern for better fuel efficiency or enthusiastic "feeling". I hope and looking forward to being proved wrong! :D
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Yup I have an 05 LGT Wagon with 5MT and it's a blast. I regularly track it here in the northeast and I love to see the looks on folks faces when they get past by a WAGON :)

    I'm hoping that they bring back the LGT wagon in the next generation but we shall see.

    -mike
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    ...over on TN.

    From some normally reliable technical sources there it appears that this 'all-new' 2.7L I4 may be the eventual successor to the current 2.4L 2AZ I4 which is in everything!

    If it is all new it would likely be the 1AR 2.7L with dual VVT-i getting hp ratings of 180-190 without Valvematic and maybe over 200 with Valvematic at some time soon.

    Fuel Economy? Well if one were to go by the other 'R' engines it would be the same or even better than the outgoing 2.4L 2AZ. Now there's a neat trick.

    1ZR 1.8L in the xD and Corolla
    1GR 4.0L in the 4R, FJ, Taco and Tundra
    2GR 3.5L in everything larger than a Corolla and smaller than a 4Runner
    3UR 5.7L in the Tundra, Sequoia and LC

    All are tops in their class in power and efficiency. This is a nice prospect for the new Venza.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    I think it's rather cool looking. It is built on the Camry/Avalon platform so I expect a Camry/Avalon like ride but with a tighter suspension like on the SE Camry. It should be lots of fun. Can't wait to see them in person.
    Mack :shades:
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Posts: 619
    It will be interesting to see what ride quality Toyota can achieve with the 20 inch wheels.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Should be pretty good. The Highlander rides on 19's and the Tundra on 20's as does the Sequoia Platinum. Nice comfy ride.
    Mack
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    The Toyota press release says it is yet another vehicle targeted at the "active lifestyle" crowd.

    If I never hear another vehicle described as "perfect for active lifestyles" or having "the surprising utility of an SUV in a (sedan/crossover/younameit)", it will be too soon.

    Toyota also describes it as emphasizing comfort, luxury, and performance (in various places throughout the press release). Knowing Toyota as I do, why do I think it will slide well over towards the comfort/luxury end of that spectrum?! ;-)

    And with its standard feature set, I am not expecting it to come in much below the base price of the Highlander. So I am thinking maybe $25K base, with the 4-cylinder engine and FWD?

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • la4meadla4mead Posts: 347
    I'll go one further while we are speculating after reading that press release... I bet to get that nice big sunroof and the other handy "available with" equipment, you'll have to get the V6... and the price tag will inflate closer to $40,000, even without a nav package.

    Again, I'm hoping Toyota will prove me wrong. :P
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Yes I agree that the Base 4c should start around $25K but I'd be surprised if the loaded up V6 was much higher than $37K. I'm thinking Avalon price range.
  • roho1roho1 Posts: 317
    Whoa, this is a Camry wagon, why is all the speculation so high? There's no way I'd buy a 37-40K Camry. They may as well call it the Lexus Venza then.
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Posts: 619
    You can option up an Avalon to $40,000, so there's no reason to believe that people won't pay that for a Venza. I would.
  • gpoltgpolt Posts: 113
    I see base Highlander FWDs discounted to $26,000 everywhere and that includes alloy wheels and the 3.5 V6 standard. Why would one pay the same price for a 4 cylinder?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Have you DRIVEN a Highlander? That might answer your question right there, assuming the Venza is more sporty as Toyota claims. I would think that 19" and 20" rims and a lower roof would go a long way in the right direction (away from cumbersome and top-heavy, a la Highlander) for starters.

    Also, I am guessing $25K for openers because the price of the Camry LE itself is around $22K, and it looks like the Venza will have more standard features (and the added utility of the 5-door vs 4-door configuration).

    And I am talking sticker, not "what it will be discounted to". I would imagine that after the opening months, and once Toyota starts to build base models in decent numbers, we will see base Venzas discounted to $22-23K.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Toyota discounts cars these days? Up until a few years ago Toyota didn't have deals on their cars. Not a good sign for them in my opinion.

    -mike
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Have you looked at TMV for a Camry lately?
    Mack
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Toyota discounts cars these days? Up until a few years ago Toyota didn't have deals on their cars. Not a good sign for them in my opinion.

    -mike


    As a host here I hope you're joking, mike. Hint: I bought my first Camry in 1989 at a $1000 discount off MSRp when Honda wanted a 'Market Adjustment Surcharge' on its Accord on top of MSRP.

    I've never paid anywhere near full sticker for any of my 8 Toyotas including a 2003 MR2, 2004 Highlander, 2005 Prius or 2007 Solara Convertiblle.

    One of the reasons that Toyota has been so successful in the marketplace is that it's all about volume and moving metal. They will do whatever is necessary. Being on the sales end of it now it's not such a great situation but it does 'Pump up the Volume'.

    Quick summary:

    Every one of the following vehicles today is sold at invoice or lower...Corolla, Matrix, Camry, Solara, Tacoma, Tundra, 4Runner, old Sequoia, FJ.

    Everyone of these vehicles has little or no markup so they are essentially selling at invoice anyway...Yaris, Scion xD, xB, tC.

    If a person is serious about buying a Prius or Hybrid Highlander or Hybrid Camry they will be slightly above invoice.

    Essentially there is no 'retail markup' in any Toyota being sold today. With a few exceptions like the Prius for the first 3 yrs and the Hybrids initially and the FJ initially no Toyota over the last 10 yrs is anything other than a 'unit' going out the door. Internet sales pressures driven by Toyota are making this the new marketing trend.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Guess I haven't followed it or in my area they don't discount em. Here in the NY/NJ area they don't discount the Toyotas much, if at all and the financing rates never dip either. I was suprised to see the "new" tundra being advertised with low financing rates late last year.

    -mike
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    As a host here I hope you're joking, mike.

    Just to be clear, Mike is not posting as a host in this discussion but rather as a member/contributor - looks like he forgot to make that clear. :)
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Yup if you look at the top you'll see who the host is for any particular discussion :)

    -mike
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Yep, I remember paying full pop for my first Toyota, a 1981 Celica I bought at Frank Toyota in National City Ca. I was 23 years old and didn't know you could negotiate on cars or anything else for that matter. I learned my lesson well since about a year later I bought a copy of Remar Sutton's "Don't get taken, The insider's guide to buying your next car" This little book cost me a whole 1 dollar and saved me a few thousand more when I put in practice what I learned. After that all the new Toys I bought were close to invoice.
    Mack
  • prazpraz Posts: 163
    People are buying Lexus for invoice and is this discussion whether we can buy Toyota for invoice or close to it??????????????
  • Anyone attending the Detroit Auto show, please ask for any idea as to the MPG estimates (2008 version please). Any thoughts? My son keeps asking for a somewhat roomy (he is 6'4", 230lb), with roof rack to load his roof top sail boat from time time, and 34+ mpg car while he is in college. I keep telling him he can't have all three. The Matrix is not roomy for his body. The Rav is close but not there on MPG. The Element is lax. The CRV doesn't do it. The Venza has possibilities, but I sill stick my neck out on MPG and guess the average to be low 20's for the 6 and maybe only a little better for the thirsty 4. Help!
  • wc1wc1 Posts: 11
    Well, the V6 should be better than the Highlander, which is 18/24. I'm guessing 19/26 on the Venza with the same engine. The 4-cyl. will be worse than the Camry is now, which is 21/31. I would have to say 20/29 for the 4-cyl. Venza.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,851
    Yeah, but luxury vs non-luxury has nothing to do with whether you can get a vehicle at invoice or have to pay MSRP. It's all about what's in demand.

    For example, when you could get a top-of-the-line Navigator for under invoice, you couldn't buy a base MINI Cooper at sticker. If the Venza is an in-demand vehicle then nope, there's no reasonable discussion about regularly getting deals for at or near invoice. Unless you're talking about an overall lousy brand, the average actual selling price for one vehicle in a manufacturer's line-up has nothing to do with the average selling price of their other vehicles.

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  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Posts: 519
    I'm in the same boat as your son - 6'4" and 250 lbs. I want pretty much the same things he does, and righ now I'm getting by with a 4-cylinder Highlander. Those are no longer available. But the new 2009 Matrix, which has a tilt & telescopic steering wheel for the first time, is due out on Feb 15th. I have great hopes for that to fit me, and get the better mileage I'm looking for. Wish my Highlander had a telescopic wheel!
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