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VW Golf vs Honda Civic

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  • cdyercdyer Posts: 3
    Both the Honda & Golf are great, here are my opinions/answers to liwen's questions:


    1. NO car, and I mean no car, is a "good investment." New, used, classic, whatever. Car ownership is a losing proposition. You simply have to weigh your preferences vs. your budget. (like "should I buy used and save money, but expect repairs, or buy new & have a warranty?") If you "need" a new car, typically leasing is the best alternative for many folks.

    2. Since the new Golf/Jetta family is totally new as of last year, I wouldn't worry about reliability. VWs totally turned around in the last 2 years.

    3. Check Honda's & VW's websites for their warranties. Typically the best time to buy in fall to year-end, when dealers want to max their balance sheets and clear old inventory. Also, check your local weekend paper & online buying services.

    To all, I've been following this thread, interesting. But keep in mind that VW is consciencely trying to move their products & company upscale, hence their slightly more luxurious look n' feel & higher prices (according to their CEO Ferdinand Piech). Honda, however, is perfectly happy where they are.

    There's also a lot of bunk here (mine included! ;)), so I suggest: "Car n' Driver" as the best, most objective car rag. Great for helping decide what vehicle is right. (no, I don't work for 'em!)

    That's my $.02.
  • I've been off-line for a while (put 1000 miles on my Beetle TDI this last week alone).

    Although Only1Harry says VWs have lots of problems, he refers to the older ones.
    They are no longer competing with Honda, they are competing with Mercedes now. (see the V8 Passat at the next Detroit Auto Show).

    As for value, if you look at 15-year old cars for sale, there are as many VWs as Hondas even though there were a lot more Hondas sold. The VWs last longer. But if you're in the market for a new car the value when its 15-years old is irrelevant. You'll have traded it long ago.

    Honda makes awesome cars too, but I have a bias.
    I'm 6'5" tall and I don't fit in any Honda!
    Or the Golf ... only the Beetle and Passat.

    The Golf is roomier and safer, but thousands of dollars more than a Civic ... its not an even comparison. All VW cars have 4-whl discs with ABS, and 4 air-bags which is part of the price difference. High end models have stuff like rain-sensitive automatic wipers ... I don't think that an option on ANY Honda/Acura model yet.

    But they are very different cars in handling, seating position, response, etc.

    Try them both and buy whatever you like and can afford.
    You can't go wrong with either of them!

    (IMO - I don't think there are any Japanese or European made cars sold in North America that are "bad" cars ... but some of the Korean stuff I'm not so sure of)
  • Unless you barely drive a car, I think the VW base 2.0 liter is a dud of an engine.

    If you want performance, you NEED the 1.8 turbo.
    Chip-it and you have 200 reliable HP.
    Its much more economical than the V6 and faster.

    If you want economy get the TDI diesel.
    Its faster than the base gas engine too!
    At some Canadian dealers (where gas is a bit pricier) sales of Diesel Golfs is now greater than gas powered models (and VW does NOT advertise their diesel engines).
  • Check out the lastest SCC(sports car compact). It has a comparision between the 2 cars. The Honda had a slight edge in handling. 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are almost equal. They both agreed that the VW had a better motor. In the end they said it really was a choice. The GTI was 2 grand more. The GTI is more of a car then the 2 grand difference. I myself would choose a GTI. I race both a '97 GSR and '84 VW GTI at weekend autocrosses. For the 80 more horsepower the GSR produces it really is not any faster around a sea of cones. The GTI is always within a second of the GSR. If the GTI was setup nearly as well as the GSR it would be faster. German cars rule!!!!!
  • goopgoop Posts: 23
    Hi All - these are all great cars, it's true. Civics are fine cars - I came close to buying an Si but got a GTI 1.8t. My reasons are many, but personality is one of them. Yes, the Civic is a fine car, but hello? Personality? Those things are as bland as English cooking - in my humble opinion, that is.
    Which is not to say that I'm one of those new Mk IV owners who's been swayed by VW's new upscale image - I unabashedly love the cars and the company. What has Honda put out to match the likes of a Scirocco or Corrado? That's what I mean by personality.
    Again - I'm not trying to put down Hondas at all. I'm firmly convinced they are more reliable (less stuff to break). My $.02...
  • snakrichsnakrich Posts: 10
    How do you mean, my friend? After all, the base Civic has 16 valves, the Golf a mere 8; the Civic and independent rear suspension, the Golf a mere twist axle which certainly enploys fewer parts. Perhaps Hondas are more reliable for, shall we say, substantial reasons. Now, substantiate yourself!
  • goopgoop Posts: 23
    Hiya - I guess I'm coming from an electrical/gadget perspective. German cars have an unfortunate reputation for occassionally being a bit finicky in the electrical department. A friend of mine with a '00 GTI GLX has had some problems with his power windows, and I've read more than a few posts about similar issues over at the vortex. I'm not sure how substantial that is since that does boil down to hearsay, but just the fact that that VW is more feature laden than the Honda gives it more opportunities to break. :)

    And after rereading the topic of this thread I see it's about the Golf versus a Civic DX, but the GTI 1.8t has 20 valves. :)

    Which one are you looking at - the 1.8t or the VR6? I guarantee you'll be thrilled. After almost 2000 miles I still sometimes crank the up the Average White Band and drive for an hour after work, and it always puts a smile on my face despite crappy Houston roads.
  • eludwigeludwig Posts: 82
    If you'd rather spend time with your friends and family than your dealer's service department, buy a Civic. Sure, Golfs are loaded with equipment, but they have a sketchy service record, get embarrasing mileage for a car in this class, handle like a Buick (these days), and come at a totally unjustified price. Oh, I forgot to mention that dealers can't guarantee getting you the car you want. Overall, the Civic is a much better deal, is more fun to drive since it has a far superior 5-speed and motor, and is guaranteed to last 200k miles if serviced regularly.
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    My friend is up to 240k mi. on his '91 Civic. He replaced the head gasket at about 210k mi. and the car 's been doing fine. He 's on the original clutch!
    I 'll hit 102k mi. on my way home today,
    ('97 DX htbk) and my exhaust hasn't even begun to rust. I 'll be really happy with another 50K troublefree miles and then I 'll buy another Civic.
  • rjjensenrjjensen Posts: 7
    crack 200K sometime in August. I am planning on keeping it after I buy something else. I have only changed the timing belt once and the clutch is the original.

    What can I get a new civic hatchback for? An SI in particular? What are people paying?


    Thanks in advance!

    rjj
  • I have drove Honda's since I first got my license.
    I loved them. They are reliable. They are fun,
    but they are also a little on the cheap side.
    After owning a VW you will feel the same way about
    Honda's as you do about Toyota's now. They are
    good cars, but just lack a little personality. The VW price is very reasonable. There is nothing under 20 grand that will touch the quality of the interior in a VW. If Honda was smart they would have made a SI version of the hatchback. We all know Honda could do it, but instead they put the good motor in the coupe. Another thing I don't like about Honda is the idea of running a 1.6L. Why not bump it up to 1.8L or 2.0l? It is amazing what kind of difference a little displacement will make. I owned a '94 GSR coupe with the 1.8 VTEC. It was a fun car. It had enough low-end to keep me from redlining it in every gear to get around, but was a monster above 6000 rpm. I drove a friend’s '99 Civic Si. The motor is ok in the VTEC range, but was real boring everywhere else. VW could do something to improve their cars too. The 2.0L 8-valve is a great motor, but its time has come. Why not
    bring back the 130hp 2.0L 16v of the early 90's as
    the base engine? It would make the car much more appealing to performance enthusiasts. Also the VR6 is finished. We all know the GOLF 1.8T is a performance chip away from being faster then the GOLF GTI VR6. Why not replace the GOLF GTI VR6 with a TT powered Golf GTI? The 180hp and 180lbs of torque in the GTI would make the GTI a real burner. The TT motor is the same 20-valve 1.8L turbo engine. It just has a larger turbo to force more air in the motor. I will still stand by the VW as being a better buy. The reliability is very similar in both cars. My ’84 GTI has 200+k on it and is still going strong. It has never been rebuilt and has been autoxed almost every weekend since new. I bought it used as the second owner. It never sees anything but track time now, but it still runs strong. If I was going to drive a car for 100k I would much rather do it in a VW. German cars Rule!!!
  • eludwigeludwig Posts: 82
    To address a few points:

    Honda chooses lower displacement because their VTEC technology allows them to optimize both fuel economy and acceleration. Luckily, their cars have flawless 5-speeds to make revving a pleasure. VW has yet to accomplish either of these feats.

    Honda is dropping the hatch altogether because they don't sell. VW pushes them because they're a novelty in the US and it's how they built their business.

    This "personality" VW owners refer to seems to be based on quirky design. Just look at the instruments on the new VW's, the crummy HVAC controls, numerous electronics problems (posted on this site), and the Euro-breadbox exteriors. Finally, it seems so many VW owners reply to Honda fans' questions about VW shortcomings with the possibility of some ill-conceived aftermarket part that will solve the problem.

    Finally, everyone talks about the "quality" of the new VW's. Funny, because they've only been around a few years. Quality is earned over time, not from your first depression of a button.

    Honda still makes a better performing car. Period. VW, with corporate goals of making higher volumes of cars, appears to be headed in the wrong direction. And the sign's pointing to their troubled plants in Mexico.
  • goopgoop Posts: 23
    1. Not all of us want to rev the crap out of our cars to elicit sporty performance. Also, some of us like to be able to climb hills. :)

    2. Hondas hatches may not sell; VW's do. That's not saying one is better than the other. I bought my hatch not as a novelty but because it's functional and my car will be the crap out of an SUV on the road, where 90% of SUV 'drivers' take their vehicles.

    3. Don't even compare the VW's interior to a Hondas. No comparison at all; the VW's interior is light years ahead of the Hondas. Ill conceived aftermarket parts? WTF? Honda has huge aftermarket support. It's not to address shortcomings but rather to tweak the vehicle to the owner's desired design. Geez, what a cheap shot to make.

    4. Quirky design - sure it is. Quirky in terms of personality, something that Japanese cars are a little behind in these days. "Quality" has several metrics. Quality may refer to long term reliability, fit and finish, performance, or many other aspects of a vehicle. I know several old dubs that are still on the road, just as I know several Hondas. So?

    5. Fantastic. That's your subjective opinion. The performance specs between these cars are so close that's it's ultimately up to the driver. Regardless, I like VW's much more than Civics- and I can say this without resorting to making cheap shots and saying how crappy Hondas are, 'cause they're not.

    6. Quit trolling and say something useful. You ask about what makes a VW special in our eyes, say that you don't want to start an argument, and then post inflammatory remarks that show an obviously closed mind.
  • eludwigeludwig Posts: 82
    The points I raised actually weren't jabs, but points noted in both Passat and Golf forums by VW owners like yourself. My goal was to derive what this VW "personality" is, and nobody's defined it yet.

    The last cool VW in my opinion was the claasic early-'80's GTI. Had to rev it high, could toss it into turns, and had "personality". I beg you to explain how you see these same qualities in the current Golf :) No more remarks.
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    I don't think we need to start another war, but Eludwig was just voicing his opinion. I don't think he attacked anyone in particular. He was pointing things out about VWs that in his opinion are not so good.. How can his remarks be inflammatory if he weren't refering to anyone in particular but the Manufacturer?

    I think it's all very simple. Honda puts slightly smaller displacement engines in their cars because they 're more fuel efficient and the Civics are much lighter than a Golf, in the neighborhood of 400+lbs.
    VW uses bigger displacement motors to provide enough torque to compensate for the weight. But 115hp out of a 2.0L engine? Com'on.. A Neon has had more power than that with the same displacement for over 6 yrs now! The Civic EX has had 125-127hp since 1992 with only a 1.6L. The Civic's torque is very comparable to its displacement (107ft-lbs vs 122 in the 2.0L Golf)
    The Integra's 1.8L engine has more torque than the Golf's 2.0L. Geez, what happened there? Simple answer, better technology my VW friends. I mean who still uses 2v per cyl. engines? That's old technology! Honda has always been able to put out more HP per liter and longer lasting torque throughout most of the rpm band than most cars except for maybe 1 car that comes to mind (Ferrari, but I think the S2000 has it beat in output per liter)
    In any case look at the Golf GTI GLS. It stickers for $18,200 and you still get a 2.0L 115hp 8V motor! A 140hp Integra LS only stickers for a $1K more. You get 25hp more, a couple more lb-ft of torque and the same standard options that you get in the GLS and maybe more. The Integra's interior is top notch quality.
    But forget the Integra. The 160hp Civic Si is even cheaper. It may not have the built quality of the Integra (but it's not too far behind) and ABS, but you get a lot of bang for the buck.
    I think it's unfair to compare the Civic HB to a Golf because of the price difference and in my opinion they don't really compete. Had there been a Civic HB Si (127hp) like the last generation, with a couple of standard options for a couple of $K more, then it might 've been a fair comparison. The Golf's just has more standard options and sticker for a lot more than $11-12K. The best part is, a Civic CX/DX 5-sp. will blow a 2.0L Golf away.
    If I paid $15-16K for my Golf, I 'd want to at least keep up if not beat $11-12K cars at the light, wouldn't you?
    Sentra20ser: I agree with a lot of things you said, but honestly, would you rather drive a 130hp 16V GTI or an Integra GSR? I 've blown away many of VR6s in my '99 GSR and with some simple suspension mods I 've done, they can't keep up with me on highways (I 'm talking very high speeds) or winding back roads. They try, but none have succeeded yet. One of these days a modded VR6 may come along and maybe whip my bu*t but until that time, I 'll be whipping theirs.
    PS. I also have a Cold air intake (9% more HP at the wheels, on the dyno..)
  • goopgoop Posts: 23
    I guess I got a little riled about the aftermarket availability to address shortcomings comment. Sorry if I came off as a bit sparky.

    But I am having much more fun at work with this little exchange. :)

    Eludwig, the MkI and MkII Golfs and GTI's were pretty darn cool, and if I had the time and expertise I'd snap up a MkI GTI today. The MkIII's? Well, they got a little heavy, and the 2.0 8v is a pretty run of the mill engine that will get eaten for lunch by a lot of other cars and trucks.

    However, the MkIV 1.8t's are pretty cool, especially with the GTI badge. The current crop of VW's are just very different cars than their predecessors. What they lack in spunk, though, they make up in refinement.

    I don't know if I can answer your question about personality. Is it the heritage? Is it the cool dash display when the headlights are on? The lines? The silly commercials? I dunno. It's something that can't be put into words. I think the Civic is a fine car, especially the Si, but I just can't get excited about it. Again, just my opinion.

    Aren't you in the new car market? Keep us posted with what you get. My GTI is my second new car after driving a Nissan pickup for seven years, so you can imagine the difference I'm experiencing. :)

    Only1Harry, you'd better be beating the pants off those VR6's. Integras are renowned for being some of the best handling vehicles out there.

    Now when I get my chip and do some suspension/tire mods of my own, let's together. I don't know that any butt whipping that will be going on, but let's see who keeps up with who. :)
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    You 're on goop! :)
    Actually I like the 1.8T's engine. That's what you have right? 150hp was just what the Golf needed and that of course comes with decent torque. With some suspension mods and some good tires you might be able to keep up :-) but not before you get that chip because right now I have at least a 30hp advantage over you.
    On the open highway I hope you can go over 140 because I do that often and can change lanes very easily at those speeds (couldn't before my suspension mods and tires). Now to make this all happen you have to come up from Houston to NY! :) There are plenty of auto-x races here too so we can race against time and avoid public roads..
    Seriously good luck with the mods. The 1.8T has a fine motor and like you said it's in the TT. Since I hate V6s, if I were in the market for a VW, I 'd get the 1.8T too. I 'm sure there will be aftermarket stuff for it soon if not already. But if I ever turbo charge or supercharge my GSR, there would be no competition between the two cars at all, chip or no chip in the GTI. Even a modest 6psi boost supercharger gives the GSR an extra 60-70hp at the wheels (add 17-18% more and you get the the advertised HP at the flywheel). A low boost turbocharger easily adds 100whp or about 300hp total at the flywheel/crank of a GSR. So for now I 'll stay naturally aspirated against your turbo to keep things a little more even. And don't forget we have the same displacement!
    You gotta love VTEC :-)
  • eludwigeludwig Posts: 82
    Goop- sorry. I should know people get offended when others question what they bought for their hard earned dollars. Just look at the age old Ford vs. Chevy truck debate. For a next car, I'm all over the place. Considerations (w/ my opinions) are:

    * Integra GS-R sedan: amazing for $20k, but dated styling.
    * Altima SE: bargains at hurting Nissan dealers, good performance all-around, reliable, but ugly.
    * Golf 1.8T: cool cause I'm German, neat motor, nice std equipment, but uncertain reliability, okay 5-speed.

    I REALLY wish I could drive an Alfa Romeo 156 2L. Talk about personality! Now there's a car where the driving experience far outweighs any reliability concerns. If you ever rent a car in Europe, try one!!!
  • qwordqword Posts: 20
    For starters, I just happen to have a copy of my title from my 1994 Golf GL. According to it the weight of the car was listed at 2200lbs. I don't think of that as being to heavy. The engine in that car to me was marvelous. It loved to be driven hard which it was constantly, and although it only had about 115hp (stock) it was still able to perform well against Civics and Neons. Have any of you Honda guys/gals ever driven a Golf? Or is all of your negative feed back about the car based mostly on hear say and magazine reports? Also check the weight on an Si and then take a look at the 1.8t, there's no 400+ weight difference, and how in tarnation could anyone call the interior of the Golf boring while in the same breath dare to praise that of the civics.
  • goopgoop Posts: 23
    eludwig - have you thought about the Celica GT-S? Great car, new styling, and a blast to drive. Yeah, the cable link shifting in my GTI does leave a little sumfin to be desired. :)

    only1harry - you are definitely on. If I didn't have a band here in Houston I'd be living in NYC, and I'm always up for an excuse to drive somewhere. Give me some time on the tire/wheel mods - I'm trying to build a home studio, too, and IT pays well but not that well. :)

    My dream car - the Audi RS4. Basically an Audi A4 wagon (Avant) with a 6 speed manual tranny, 386 hp/324 torque out of a twin turbo V6 and quattro. Oh yes, and beefy 18" wheels and okay I have to stop now and come back down to reality, since this beauty will never make it to the States. I wouldn't mind a Nissan Skyline for that matter, but the thought of a WAGON that destroys 90+% of what's out there on the road is just so appealing. :)

    Qword - the first GTI debuted(?) at 1800 pounds. Since then, the cars have gotten heavier - the price of being safer and having more features. If you think Honda people can be tough on Golf's and 'newer' VW's, try talking to an air-cooled dubber fanatic. Now those guys are tough. :)
  • qwordqword Posts: 20
    I know of a few people that will not settle for anything less than their old school air-cooled V-Dub. Believe me I know how tough those guys and their cars are. Just left from Alamo Autosports here in Arlington Texas where they have one of Speed Visions Dodge Viper race cars on the dyno. They wouldn't give me the numbers, but they said that it reached 180mph in third gear. Ouch........
    Also my dream car (if released here in the states) will be VW's 330hp all wheel drive rally six speed Golf. That's something that has been in the works now for the past couple of years. We will see though............
    Also, if you live in Houston you should drive up here to Euless on the weekend of the 15th in July. There's going to be a pretty good car show for VW's. There will be a little something for everyone............
  • Honda drivers don't understand that VW engines are built to have a flat power curve. The VTEC is great, but is very peaky. Even the non-VTEC 1.8L doesn't produce much power below 4000rpm. Low torque is an autocrosser's best friend. I race both a '84 GTI and a '97 GSR coupe whenever I get a chance. Both have one purpose and that is to race. Most of the races in my area are on 2nd and 3rd gear (fast)tracks. (meaning once you get out of 1st you never have to go back.) The GSR is a listed 170hp and the Rabbit is listed at 90hp. The Rabbit has terrible steering and brakes compared to the newer Acura, but for some reason the Rabbit is able to always run within a second of the GSR no-matter how fast the course. I know the GSR would pull a mid 14 in the quarter and the Rabbit would have a hard time doing it under 17. It is hard to believe that the Rabbit is that fast on a race track. The only reason I can think of is that the GTI plus strong from 2000rpm up to 6500rpm. The GSR boggs at 2000rpm and takes longer to get back into the powerband. (I can hear the non-racers now. Downshift!) Level power output is a must. That is why VW's rule for daily driving and at autocrosses.
  • goopgoop Posts: 23
    so since this is like my third or fourth post in 24 hours, I officially have no life. :)

    qword, damn you. Just when I'm really falling in love with my GTI you bring up a 4Motion 6 speed rally VW. I'm drooling like Homer Simpson over a dougnut.

    Is there a website for this festival? Feel free to email it to the address on my profile.

    You guys all sound like you have way too much fun with your cars. Anyone care to recommend a good steet/track driving course for a newbie? Thanks!
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    Sentra20ser: Well I guess it depends where you live and what mods your car has. Over here the Integra Type-R rules. The VW GTI VR6 is in the same auto-x class as the Integra GSR and Type-R (& Prelude). Both GSR and VW VR6 don't stand a chance against the Type-Rs!!
    Show me a stock VW VR6 that has beaten a Type-R in the same stock class.
    I 'm talking SCCA G-Stock class. The Type-R rules, period. Stock GSRs do pretty well against the VW VR6s too. Once you get into modified classes anything goes. Usually it's the little CRXs around here that kick everyone's butt in the various modified classes and that includes many modified Golfs and GTIs. I participate in 5 different auto-x clubs in NY & NJ. I don't think I 've ever seen any VW come first in its class or win any trophies. I 'm not putting them down. Some do pretty well in the modified classes but there is always an old Civic or CRX grossly modified that gets the best times in those classes. In the stock classes the regular Golf competes with Neons and Civics. The Neon R/T and ACR (special edition & limited production auto-x Neon) usually kick butt because they 're better hanlding cars than Civics and Golfs, stock.
    Now if no Neons showed up, a stock Golf will probably win against stock Civics by a very small margin (drivers been equal).

    qword: I was referring to the new Golfs. If you look at the "New Cars" section of Edmunds, you 'll see that all Golfs weigh between 2760 and 2900lbs!! My Civic hatchback weighs 2258 (it's in my registration) or around 2300 as Edmund's states. Yes, a Civic Si is exactly 2600lbs but that's still much lighter than a base Golf or about 300lbs less than a GLS or a VR6.
    115hp may be adequate for a 2200-2500 (but nothing more than that) but nothing heavier. In my opinion they should 've dumped this engine or tweaked it to get another 15hp or so to compensate for the weight increase.
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    I forgot to comment on your "flat power curve" LOL. If that's true that means the Golf's power never peaks or goes up. It stays flat???
    Maybe you meant to say flat torque curve? Which the the Hondas have plenty of but it just doesn't get too hight. A Civics and Integras torque curve stays pretty flat from 3K to 6.5-7K RPM! Where the VW's torque curve peaks at around 5K and then drops fast! VWs do get more low end torque which helps in auto-x because of the slower speeds. But I doubt a 90hp car produces more torque or more lower torque than the 128ft-lbs of torque in a GSR. The GSR has plenty of low end torque and you 're almost never at 2K RPM in a GSR auto-xing! The GSR does maybe 10mph at 2K RPM in 2nd gear. I 've never found myself at 2K RPM when auto-xing. Always above 4K. And if I were to find myself doing 2K rpm I 'd downshift pretty darn fast. Also, at 4K RPM (or higher)in 2nd gear the GSR will accelerate much faster than an '84 VW and most of the cars on the road for that matter.
  • How many VW's have you driven? How many VW's have you raced?
  • thebbw1thebbw1 Posts: 3
    only1harry, I think you are confused about the torgue numbers that you are quoting. I have a 2000 Golf GL and the torgue peaks at 2800 rpm NOT 5000. I used to have an '89 Civic hatch which I loved. BUT to get it to do any kind of pulling, you had to get the revs up and make it scream, which admittedely it loved to do. The torgue on my Golf is much more readily accessed.
    Of all the comparisons about performance I am amazed that there has been little mention of tranny differences. This is really the only area that I really miss my Civic(manual). My current transmission, you have to ALLOW the shifts to engage, whereas in the Civic you could MAKE them happen. I still miss shifts after 3 months of Golf ownership.
    The Golf may not scream performance like some of the Hondas/Acuras, but let me tell you, my old bones sure enjoy the ride(as well as not having to climb in and out of the seats anymore).
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    I 've driven 2 VWs. One was my friend's '89 Jetta and the other a '92 Passat (4cyl). I have not raced in any of them but have raced against them.
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    You 're right. I made a mistake. HP peaks at around 5K. Torque peaks at 2600rpm on a 2.0L 115hp Golf according to Edmunds.
    But what good is all that torque at the low end if the car can only go to 60 in 10.4sec? It probably has decent acceleration (can't even see that weighing 2800lbs with only 122 torque) to 30mph but after that it looks like acceleration rate drops and it's a slow climb to 60mph. My '98 Galant weighs just a few lbs more (2850)than a base Golf and has 143ft-lbs of torque.
    You need a nice long flat torque curve in the higher RPMs as well (this makes more HP mind you and improves acceleration) to make the car move half way decent. I had a '90 Geo Storm with 95hp and 97ft-lbs of torque that went to 60 in 10s flat. Hondas and Acuras maintain most of their peak torque all the way through roughly 6-7K RPM (depending on what model we 're talking about) which is what makes them fast. They pull nicely all the way to redline where the Golf start losing steam and its torque starts dropping fast.
    Of course this also due to the VTEC technology in all Hondas. Even a base Honda with 106hp and 102ft-lbs of torque uses a milder version of VTEC technology ('96-00 models).
    Now if the Golf weighed between 2250-2450lbs like your Civic CX/DX/LX/EX, 115hp and 122ft-lbs of torque would probably be more than adequate and would most likely make it a full second faster to 60mph and improve acceleration in general.
    The car is just too underpowered for its weight with today's standards.
  • How many Honda's have you owned and raced?
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