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VW Golf vs Honda Civic

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  • fish8fish8 Posts: 2,282
    .....as long as reliability is at least on par with the Japanese models....
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Posts: 690
    Agreed.... :shades:
  • i dont believe that the Honda is more reliable than the VW. I have the new GTI and a good pal of mine has the TYPE-R. Although the honda is very slightly quicker the golf is much better to drive and i think the quality is second to none though it is a little drab inside.
  • I'm choosing between the Golf and some other compact car for a 3 year lease. While reliability seems to be a topic of discussion for the VWs, is this something I need to worry about for 45,000 miles? Any reason I should go with the 06 instead of the 05 if I can still find one? Also, what are these velour seats like? I also keep reading that the car is noisy, but I didn't notice on my test drive with the 06... Is the 05 noisy?

    I tried the civic and the corolla and the even the camry and the accord. What's up with these lower roof lines and high seats? I'm 6 foot - it seems VW is the only small car manufacturer that recognizes people over 5'7''... The Golf was a perfect fit. I actually felt small in the car! I don't drive a manual, but was willing to go with one when I was considering the Mazda 3 (poor lease options, so I'm still shopping). How is the manual on the Golf?

    How many MPGs is everyone getting on their manual or automatic?

    Any advice/comments would be welcome!

    Herbie53.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    I own a Civic and an Accord. I'm actually 6'6'.

    I will say that if fuel economy is an issue, the SI only gets around 30 mpg. Not typical Civic mileage.
  • Which engine does your prospective Golf have? I'm assuming the 2.0 Liter, not the TDI, yes? I have a '96 Golf GL automatic w/ 2.0 liter. I get about 26 MPG/City and 30 MPG/Highway. Not bad for a 10 year old car. I do not drive it hard. Seats are still supportive
    and comfortable and handling is very good.

    Be sure to visit the VW area here for more info: http://www.vwvortex.com/
  • I've had my golf mk3 for 2 years now and I swear by it. No matter the distance i've had to drive, for whatever reason, with how much weight im carrying, in all sorts of God-forsaken conditions, it's always always always delivered. If I had to bet on one thing happening tomorrow; either the sunrise or my car starting, I wouldn't bet on the big glowing thing in the sky.
    I've heard civics are reliable and I do not disagree, but the other week I was doing a friend a favor by taking her civic to the car wash and while sitting in the queue, in neutral, the engine cut out!!! :surprise: THATS RIGHT! A honda VTEC engine simply just failed! No lie or exaggeration. There goes their record.
    Please don't get me wrong, I like Hondas and other Japanese cars. When I was buying, it was a coin-flip between a Civic and a Golf. Many advised I go VW and I did. No regrets.
    Some may say Golfs are expensive but you do pay for quality.
    The civic seats feel nice and it is a high rever, but personally I prefer my oomph lower down on the rev scale. The golf has a much higher quality feel to the interior. It was designed by a designer, not the accountant.
    Currently planning on getting a Mk2 big bumper GTi :D
    Proud to say im a VW lover now, may get a civic to see whats it's like, but my heart will from now on belong to the Germans.
    My advice to to anyone who has this hard choice - it doesn't matter. Your getting a reliable car either way. But the Golf will last longer and get you more respect.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    In a VW???? Only from other VW owners. Not much panache in the VW name. For a while there they were thinking of pulling out of the U.S. market. They are pulling the waste of R&D money Phaeton.

    Heck, with 2 or three posts in the last few months, doesn't seem like there's much comparing the Civic vs. the Golf. Do they even still sell the Golf? LOL.
  • Anytime I take a little break from these boards and then take a look at new contributions, I am taken back by the amount of demagogy and hyperbole. :(

    At any rate, VW and Audi are doing quite well these days, even in the US. I would be worried about GM, and Ford must get their act together. I am not worried about the VW group, which includes Audi, Skoda, Seat, Lamborghini, Bentley, and Bugatti --- and thus is highly diversified, and is the biggest car maker in Europe. VW's US sales are up 28% compared to the same month last year, Audi sales are up 20%.

    So, if there is no discussion in here for a while - is that because there is no comparison between the Golf and the Civic, or between the Civic and the Golf? ;)

    Finally, the new base engine for the Golf is the 2.5 5-cylinder - same as that in the new Jetta. It will be out in the summer. I'll take the 2.0TFSI of the GTI instead (a lot more power with better fuel consumption). 5-door available in about July. It will finally replace my 13+ year old, very reliable, very low-cost Golf that does not have any rust and never leaves me stranded. (In case you ask, why, then? I and my loved ones appreciate the idea of having airbags, although I have already been hit by a Mack truck-equivalent in the back, without consequences...).

    That is, unless I go for the A3.

    Cheers.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    The entire brand sold less than 17,000 cars. That's like saying "I sold 4 cars this year but 2 last year so my sales are up 100%". Everyone knows the Jetta has been a disappointment. I'm certain VWoA wanted to sell many more than 7k Jettas a month. Hyperbole is calling 16K units a successful month for the "bread and butter" arm of the VW/Audi brand.

    Heck, Hummer sales are up 50% but GM is still in trouble.
  • Firstly, US sales of VW group cars are doing nicely --- but don't matter much to the company at this point (these sales simply make up too little of world wide sales; sorry, sometimes, the US is not all that important).

    Secondly, those ~17,000 cars are per month, not per year.

    Thirdly, ~17,000 cars a month add up to ~ 200,000 a year, and at an average sales price of $28,000 (I just made that up) that adds up to about 6 BILLION dollars a year. Not sure who you work for, but that doesn't sound too shabby to me. Even more so, when I think about the fact that currently, the US is a mere afterthought to one of the most successful car companies in the world. ;)
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    The "Group" may be doing nicely....But VW ain't in the U.S.
    GM is doing fine in other countries but getting thier butts kicked here.

    Read back....I said that 17,000 cars a month is not that successful for the "bread and butter" brand. And 7000 Jettas a month is paltry compared to Jetta sales in the past.

    6 billion dollars a year may not sound shabby to you, but for a major conglomerate, that's not all that much money. As far as the U.S. being an afterthought to VW...Well...

    http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/en/beijing/cib/2005_09/auto-sales-is-the-honeymoon- -over-for-vw.html

    They better start making it a before-thought.

    http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_canaries_go_first/

    And I quote..."Volkswagen: The saddest story."

    You can rebut those articles by the automotive press.

    I'm done.
  • I think we agree on the fact that VW had been in a bit of a slump in the US over the past few years, for a variety of reasons. I guess what we disagree on, is what the future holds. Which brings this discussion to topic, because who would by a Golf over a Civic if the company isn't going to be around in a couple of years, right?

    Now, VW has had really long model years, and is saying that is changing. They just started introducing the new Jetta last year, the new Passat Sedan very recently, and the new GTI in January. New Golf likely in June. Now, with this information, lets take another look at the January sales year to year changes: Jetta sedan up 48%, Passat Sedan up 82%, Golf combined up 26% (remember, this is without the new Golf - just new GTI). Looks to me like they are doing something right. Beetle sales are up, too, the New Passat wagon just came in, and over the course of the next months they will introduce the 5-door GTI, the Golf, and the Eos.

    So, from my viewpoint, things are definitely looking up for VWoA, and I am not worried a bit that VWoA will fall apart any time, soon. Which brings me to the second "automotive press" (actually Forbes) article, which fails to mention what the actually size of the car companies is (obviously, one of the largest car makers in the world can weather a US storm better than a small company), and is therefore outright silly. How about this piece of uplifting news instead?

    And what the tea in China is the relationship of the first article to the health of VWoA? (Would anyone have thought that VW would forever have a virtual monopoly in China?).

    I guess, I have a generally positive outlook on life, and I am looking forward to buying a new 5-door Golf (GTI actually, if not an A3) in the summer. No worries here.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    I look at it as the Jetta, while having a 48% jump, is still only selling 7000 units a month. That's more than last year but really not a good number considering it's a new model that's already getting heavy incentives. If VW carries this body style for as long as it usually does, they are in trouble.

    1000 Golf sales has to get better. But hatches don't do well in the U.S. So it probably won't make much of a dent.

    4000 Passats is better than last year but still far short of what you would expect for a car in the model's segment.

    Not to mention the Toureg's decline. Is there a new one coming?

    VW better hurry up with those coupes. But coupes don't really wow us American that much either. Especially the way VW prices their stuff.

    But time will tell. By the way...Since this is the Civic vs, Golf forum..Let's check this years Civic sales vs. Golf sales....
    http://automobiles.honda.com/info/news/article.asp?ArticleID=2006020150249&Categ- - - ory=currenthonda

    Hmmm....I wonder just who IS buying those 17,000 VW's? And I wonder did they cross-shop? I for one did. And I actually love the new Jetta. That is one solid car. Bet rather expensive on the sticker, which is what they wanted when I was looking. The new 5 cylinder kind of drones a bit but the chassis is like a brick. But I , like the Wards article stated, am afraid of VW's reliability record.
  • I just had my '99 Honda CX Civic stolen from in front of my house yesterday in suburban New Jersey. 116K miles, 6.5 years old and I was maintaining it very well! The problem is its popularity. I bought the very base model to squeeze out the value over what I thought was going to be 15 years. Well, the kids are souping up these light bodied hatch backs and I'm assuming the car has either been chopped up for parts or has a new engine in it by now... the point of my post...

    I need another reliable car. If Golf's are not popular, but they are reliable, even if they are not comfortable or drive smoothly, then this is the next car for me! I'd appreciate ANY AND ALL input on this. Any advice on fuel efficiency, repair costs, etc. Thanks!
  • IMO, you've got things a bit backward. Golfs (and Jettas) are very comfortable and drive quite smoothly and handle nicely. My '96 Golf handles and rides as well today as it did 10 years ago. As for reliability, Golfs are not up there with Hondas, but with regular maintenance, the engines and drive trains will last almost forever. The new MK V platform Golf will be available in the USA this summer - with a bigger engine (2.5L) - which it needs. Fuel efficiency will not match Japanese econo-boxes but the "driving experience" is well worth it, IMO.
    For more on VWs, check out the VW Vortex at:
    http://vwvortex.com/

    -----------------------------------------------------
    Re: > I need another reliable car. If Golf's are not popular, but they are reliable, even if they are not comfortable or drive smoothly, then this is the next car for me! I'd appreciate ANY AND ALL input on this. Any advice on fuel efficiency, repair costs, etc. Thanks!<
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    Since they changed the rear suspension design. But the old ones had impeccable road manners. The drive was almost enough to convince me that I needed one. Make mine with the VR6 please.
  • bkpsbkps Posts: 3
    Honda has always made great engines; since they started with the goal of making the best motorcycles you could get. (yes they started making motorcycles only.) Their cars while light are not that great. They save their great cars for their Acura line.

    VW has, also, always made great engines; since the original Bug that routinely runs 500,000+ miles. Their cars while Heavy are great and their &#147;high end&#148; Audi line is simply an Extension of the VW line. Both VW and Audi&#146;s have the same problems with electronic ignition block shorting ($200 aprox. and GM and Chrysler also have this problem.) and on, some models, weak clips holding the windows to their tracks, which has been fixed.

    I have a used &#146;95 golf GTI with 230,000 miles that is still going strong. I also have an '04 R32 golf (3.2 liter, all wheel drive, but bad gas mileage) that I regularly use to embarrass the JapTuners around town.

    If I was looking for a NEW car I would get a Golf TDI (diesel) 5000 miles between oil changes and 50 MPG (my friend has a new '03 Beatle TDI and gets 49 MPG average highway AND city).

    I am actually looking to trade the OLD GTI for an OLD TDI Golf.

    Here is an idea.. go to a junk yard and see what wrecked Hondas look like next to wrecked VWs. If I am ever in a bad accident I want to be in the German car.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    Isn't a good gauge of protection. Since most modern cars are built to sacrifice themselves in a crash.

    Never heard of Honda fuel injection "shorting out". That's a new one. My new to me 1996 Civic EX sedan just got 37 mpg with mixed use. This is my third 1996 Civic EX and the second one with over 100K. No fuel injection problems just great gas mileage.

    Here's an idea. Good cars are usually rewarded with excellent resale throughout their useful lives and exceptional history of reliability. Check any data on 10 year old VW Golfs's vs Honda Civics with equal mileage. See if you would still want to keep one for a long while. Maybe a lease though.

    And when you adjust for sales, the number of horror stories told about VW products challenges GM products. And it goes beyond the cars themselves. It extends to dealership and manufacturer customer service also. It's scary.
  • bkpsbkps Posts: 3
    I am sure that montalbano is smart enough to look at the passenger compartment not the fenders!

    There are to many variables to consider the resale price of cars like these after 10 years and 150,000 miles. Like whos will be stolen, who paid more insurance, price of gas, how fast the body goes out of style, trim, etc. I am not willing to do that much research / work. AutoTrader has an interesting tool:
    link title but still does not take into account everything.

    AND what is this about fuel injection?
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    In passenger safety. In fact they have built quite e reputation for being safe and efficient. Honda went so far as to build a dedicated crash safety center.

    Not much research to do. Probably only a few more clicks than it took to create that last post saying that you weren't willing to do the research. Yet willing to post that you aren't willing to research. Many of those resale variables are taken into account when values are given. that's why they ask what level of cleanliness the car is.

    And speaking of variables. I would think the variables involved in assessing the severity of an accident by looking at the wreckage to be much less accurate than simply checking KBB and or Consumer Reports.
  • bkpsbkps Posts: 3
    OK gee35coupe if the research is so easy...

    Then I anctiously await your detailed economic evaluation and comparison of the VW Golf and Honda Civic and their long term ownership economies.

    I expect that you will consider all of the variables that I listed previously and preferably a few more as well.

    Also KBB and Consumer Reports do NOT do crash tests.
  • But Mr Pischetsrieder said VW, which includes Bentley, had made only a "very slight" profit after steep losses. "We continue to incur significant losses on cars exported from Germany to the United States. To ensure a long-term future for the group, we must act rapidly," he said.

    Volkswagen, Europe's largest carmaker, warned yesterday that it could axe up to 20,000 jobs at its core VW brand and close several loss-making German plants in a restructuring designed to restore profits.

    Bernd Pischetsrieder, chief executive, told VW's 103,000 German employees that their productivity was low, plants recorded very high losses and some component operations were uneconomical.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Yikes. Maybe the Ford guys can console the VW guys? (Not making light here, I promise). It's a shame that such a huge business is seemingly TOO big for itself.
  • So, good news all around. Everyone (not only share holders) should be happy that problems to remain the largest car maker in Europe and to remain competitive are addressed early on, rather than being swept under a GM carpet. ;)
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    The problems are being addressed "early on". VW as a brand has been in trouble for more than a few years now. Although not quite as bad or as long as GM though.
  • joem5joem5 Posts: 201
    My wife drives a BMW 5 . I drive an Accura Type S no problems.it's bullet proof except for cheap leather seats. At 30k they replaced back on front drivers side. Also, My Integras did the same thing.
    Now for the crazy part. I want heated seats,regular gas and a nav system.
    I've been reading horror stories on here about VW for 3 years.
    What if, I buy a Golf with all the above as Honda doesn't offer heated seats in their Civic, or a H/B model.
    I would spend the extra bucks for an extended warranty.
  • allhorizonallhorizon Posts: 483
    If the Golf (or other VWs, for that matter) really were so bad, the millions of Europeans buying it would all have to be crazy, I guess. Fact is that VWs are not as reliable as, say, most Hondas or Toyotas. By about a factor of 2, currently (but improving with the new generation). So, that means if you have one problem with one of the other cars in a given amount of time, you would have two with a VW (or less, if they are indeed improving). If reliability is your number one priority, that may matter. If you feel life is too short to miss out on a great driving experience, the difference may be irrelevant. VWs also carry a good warranty, and their engines are generally bulletproof and last a long time (oil changes required).

    The new Golf will be out in a few months (end of June to end of July for the various models). I know you mentioned regular gas (which the 2.5l engine - same as in the Jetta - will take), but you may also want to consider the new 2.0TFSI engine. It is much more powerful, but uses less gas. In the end, you will likely break even, although it requires premium gas. You can test drive it in the GTI or in the Jetta/GLI.
  • Re: "If you feel life is too short to miss out on a great driving experience, the difference may be irrelevant."

    I agree with your post (my '96 Golf GL AT is going strong), however, I don't think the 2.0TFSI engine will be available in the USA. I may be wrong. The new 2.5L is a more powerful engine than the current 2.0L but is also less fuel efficient. Always a trade-off somewhere, eh? I just wish we'd get more TDIs in the USA, but that's not VW's fault.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Just as much of a problem as the reliability of recent models (starting with the 1999 New Beetle from what I've witnessed personally), is the dealership's inability to deal with customers in a proper way. They are an antonym to the "customer is always right" theory. They go out of their way to make you feel like a fool.

    A family friend (with the 99 NBeetle Turbo) just spent $2200 on electical problems after 2 months at the dealer repair shop.

    It IS a blast to drive, though, more fun than my Honda. But her New Beetle cost $25,000 new, another $3100 since then after p0st-warranty-repairs.

    Get the Warranty and a friendship with the people at Hertz rent-a-car. You'll be fine.
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