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VW Golf vs Honda Civic

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  • Nice post, Dudka.
  • mdrivermdriver Posts: 385
    Actually, VW build quality is better than Honda's, but reliability isn't as good. Yes there is a difference. The VW is very well finished. In the Civic, you can see the welds where the window frame meets the door (inside close to side mirror). You won't find such exposed welds in the VW interior. But, I agree, that doesn't make it more reliable. VW's weakness is mostly in electrical systems (I'm not excusing them).

    The 1.8T is however more potent than the Si 2.0 I say that because of the tremendous low end torque produced by the 1.8T. Anyway, all this changes when the new generation of Golf comes out in a few months. It will have the gasoline direct injection engine, something Honda doesn't offer, as well as excellent diesel engines which offer bulldozer-like torque and fuel economy in the mid 40s.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    Have a usable rev range of 3000 rpm or less. Just what the Si or even the GTI needs. Honda already has competent engine pushing 50 mpg. But they just started selling diesels in Europe, if the market arises here they'll be ready. So far diesel cars are a joke in the land of the 10 MPG SUV.
  • Ummm...with any due respect, I am sure if you buy a TOYOTA, then that would make you really, really happy??? Then there would be no explaination why VW, Jaguar, Range Rover, and Audi CONTINUE TO SELL despite less than stellar reliability ONLY compared to Honda and Toyota. Toyota then Honda has the edge on build quality over VW...there are almost no seams or gaps at all. But, Simply put: You missed the point.

    True, on re-sale and reliability Honda kills VW, but some of us like to work on our cars once in a while and don't understand why someone would want to sell it?

    From a Drivers Point of view (again and again) The Civic, no matter what engine you put into it, cannot hold any speed compared to any VW Golf. Iam not talking about reaching 200 mph for 10 seconds and saying you did it. Iam saying doing 150+mph and HOLDING THAT SPEED for a good distance for a real commute and actually going somewhere.

    Stock Rim packages and lower stances are common place now from manufacturers of all sorts; Chrysler, Nissan and VW, so it's no big deal. The cops, however still continue to pull over the wannabe fast n furious Honda's though...wonder why.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    The Golf would be my choice. More standard safety equipment with ABS standard and curtain and side airbags standard. Better seats (and heated too), better interior, better stereo, overall it provides more of a luxury experience than the Civic. First Golf had the famous falling windows and that was only problem. Second Golf had window trim replaced and has been trouble free. My Civic Si had problems from the first week. Emissions system problems requiring parts replacement, poor interior assembly (the exterior assembly was flawless), radio failed, and the Check Engine light was an intermittent problem at the very end of ownership. 2002 Civic was a big disappointment so I traded it on a 2002 VW Golf TDI.
  • dudkadudka Posts: 451
    """"""""From a Drivers Point of view (again and again) The Civic, no matter what engine you put into it, cannot hold any speed compared to any VW Golf. Iam not talking about reaching 200 mph for 10 seconds and saying you did it. Iam saying doing 150+mph and HOLDING THAT SPEED for a good distance for a real commute and actually going somewhere.
    Stock Rim packages and lower stances are common place now from manufacturers of all sorts; Chrysler, Nissan and VW, so it's no big deal. The cops, however still continue to pull over the wannabe fast n furious Honda's though...wonder why."""""""""""""

    I don't care what you drive, if you intend on doing 150 mph as commuter speed, I don't want to be anywhere near you. I stick to my 70-80 mph for commuting. If you can get your VW to do 150 I want to know what you did with your speed limiter, as I remember from my days of owning a VW it was limited at 130 mph, as per manual. The fastest I ever done in my Si was 120 mph(bone stock) at Pocono speedway. For $30 or so you get to drive a few laps.
    I am sorry, but I DO NOT HAVE A DEATH WISH OR WISH ANYONE DEATH by doing that speed on public roads. I think you really need help and you need it soon!!!!

    """""""""The Golf would be my choice. More standard safety equipment with ABS standard and curtain and side airbags standard. Better seats (and heated too), better interior, better stereo, overall it provides more of a luxury experience than the Civic.""""""""""

    Si came with standard ABS and EBD, side airbags can be had for $200. I agree Recarro seats are not for wide bottomed 70% of the US population. Luckily I work out and stay slender to have the standard Si Recarros fit me like a glove. Heated seats on the Golf only come when your chose leather interior. I had leather before, and it is in no way a performance seating surface. Slippery seats do not hold a person well. You lose more time trying to stay in the seat than enjoying your drive. Luckily for me Alacantra (Faux suede) seats have perfect grip and are comfortable. And the frosting on the cake is that Si costs at least $5000 less than a comparably equipped Golf.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    You stated that you must choose leather to get heated seats. Leather is not even an option on Golf, only GTI, and heated seats are available on even the GL models.
    ABS is standard on Si but not on DX or LX Civics.
    Recaros are nice. Too bad they are not equipped on any current North America Civics. The seats in the Type R are Recaro, the seats in the Si are not Recaro according to Recaro and Honda USA. Recaro ARE available in a VW. The GTI. And I never at any time stated that you were wide bottomed.
    MSRP for Civic EX is $17,970 and Golf GLS $18,095. Where is the $5000 difference. A GTI is $19065 and a Si is $19000. Where is the $5000 difference.
    Side airbags are available as an extra cost option on the Civic, unfortunate that Honda does not even offer as an option curtain airbags and VW includes them as Standard.
  • TCO's on an Si and a GTI are so close that there's no real difference, until you compare street prices. Dunno what you can get a GTI for, but too many folks have gotten Si's for less than $17K to make a sentence containing Si and MSRP anything but rediculous.

    I haven't driven the GTI, so I've got no seat-of-pants impressions to offer. The paper impression (90 hp, soft suspension, luxo interior, VW reliability, high price) is such that I'm just not interested.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    When you state 90HP are you referring to the Civic Hybrid? It has 93HP. The GTI has 180HP. The Golf TDI has comparable HP to the Civic Hybrid at 90HP but it whomps it with 155lb/ft of torque for VW compared to 116lb/ft for the Civic.

    How else can you compare prices and agree w/o using MSRP? Find 10 identical cars sold to 10 different people and you will find 9 different prices paid. MSRP is a fair comparison.
  • You're right, Mopar, I was looking and thinking TDI.

    It's okay with me if you wanna think of the Si as a $19K car. I had a friend sit in mine and guess I paid $30K. The truth is, however, I paid $15.8 in December and I rate that deal as middling good.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    I'm going to be buying a hatchback in a year or two, and have been considering both of these (the Si or GTi if conditions permit it).

    I've only driven the Civic out of the two, and the only MT I've tried (a 92 hatchback) was hardly boring. But then, I've learned to have fun in my 4spd Tercel so that's not saying much. So I'm used to the feeling of a light, nimble car (my favorite acceleration is centripetal) and the Golf seems awfully heavy. Does it drive like it's heavy?

    I do like the Golf's look and interior more. But I've heard horror stories of windows falling into the doors and lots of similar problems. The Consumer Ratings on this site are full of them. My family also has a strong distrust of VWs, but the two we owned were from the early 80s. The Mexican built cars don't seem all that trustworthy either. But reliability isn't as important to me as enjoying the commute and being able to carry 3-4 people or all my worldy possessions (not at the same time). And autocrossing.

    So someone please talk about the Golf's weight, and why the Edmunds review says its handling "isn't suited for at the limit driving."
  • Governators, chips or limiters can be modified, recalibrated or simply removed.

    The speeds that are achieved are not done during rush hour with commuters and never at a time to attract attention. Where your concern "should" lie is with cars not properly able to handle speed making unsafe lane changes, attracting attention and showboating. It does not take 150 mph to kill someone. There are many slow dangerous drivers that have achieved your concerns. In fact, accident that happen at lower speeds likely won't kill, but will just leave someone paralyzed for life to think about it.

    The point I re-emphasize is from a drivers view, it is a joke to compare civic to a vw golf. The reason so many fast n furious seekers like Hondas is because they "feel like" they are going really fast, which I suppose could be "fun," but really isn't something I look for. If a car feels like its going faster than it actually is, its actually an indication of poor auto workmanship. If you want to buy a great camera, buy Japanese; leave the cars to Germans. I have been in M3's and M5 at very high speeds. The driving (and conversion) in those cars was both quiet and controlled. If someone decides to make a lane change in the someone else's path, the error is the lane change; not the speed. The speed only emphasizes the error. To be fair to comments on reliability and re-sale values. I owned an Accord EXR for 4 years. Never any problems and great re-sale value...but so what???

    I do respect your comments and concerns to speed.

    Regards, betterbydesign.
  • (without seat-of-pants experience to draw upon), I gather that the GTI suspension is sorta mushy/vague and limited by a non-independent rear axle.
    The 'W' fans into handling seem to spend a little (not a lot) on suspension mods and say they're real happy.
  • dudkadudka Posts: 451
    When I was looking to buy a car a VW GTI bone stock was selling for around $20K, I got Si with the same content for $15,500.

    Since you mention that we should buy German cars, Si WAS designed by Honda's German division. And as much as you may hate it, it drives better than a VW. I felt perfectly stable and under control when I took her to the speedway. You may have been thinking of plebeian DX or LX, but Si is a different breed. I think you owe it to your self to go out there and test drive the Si. GTI without suspension re-done is a dog, it shows its 20 year old design with torsion bar rear axle. 17 inch wheels do not make a car go faster either. Besides speed is only one component of enthusiastic driving. I can be driving 40 mph on a very twisty road and not fall off the cliff, I would like to see stock Golf/GTI keep up with me.

    Why do youkeep bringing up "Fast and Furious"? Is it because you actually like the movie? I think I speak for majority of people when I say that "Fast and Furious" does not represent enthusiast market. It glorified and exaguratted what Sport Compact market was not. Are you upset that the second part had no VW in it? (the first part had the Jetta)

     I have to give props to VW for creating the market though. The original GTI was the car to have in 1982. As a matter of fact the whole compact hatchback class in Europe is called Golf class. But come on, we all evolve and GTI/Golf/Rabbit has outlived its glory. It is time for a major redesign.

    Recarros- due to unknown issues Honda can not label stock Si seats as Recarros, but if you visit Recarros website you will see that they are identical. They may not be RED and Black, but the basic design and shape is retained.

    By the way, I was asked the other day if my black Si was the new Golf by a middle aged guy in an Audi. I guess the re-designed Golf will be similar to the Si.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    GTI is faster in straight line. Has better lateral g roadholding. Is faster in slalom testing. It is faster on the track.

    If a stock GTI was behind a Si on a roadcourse it would only be due to poor driving.

    I'm getting off topic here, since GTI is not a Golf, and there is a GTI vs. Si topic.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Since Recaro makes seats and I don't know what a Recarro is, maybe the seats in Si are Recarros.
  • I have to chime in here! Not all Honda drivers have the Fast and Furious mentality; my car is completely stock with no gaudy stickers, spoilers, etc. IMHO, the Civic has good handling capabilities, exceptional build quality, style, and that fun-to-drive quality that makes driving enjoyable! As far as sustained high speed driving goes, it's no BMW, but the Civic feels stable, comfortable, and refined at triple digit speeds. As a previous owner of a 2001 Jetta, I respect VWs, but Honda is becoming more competitive in terms of engineering, build quality/workmanship, and handling dynamics. Let's be thankful we can choose among so many appealing cars!
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    for over 30 mins straight. Only thing wrong was that it semed to be really thirsty at those speeds.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Which track did you have your Civic at 110 mph for 30 minutes? Yes, gasoline disappears very quickly at high speeds:)
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    South to Fla in Alabama. You can get some nice high speed cruising on Interstate 20 east out of Altanta. It's desolate and straight.
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