Dude, where did all the dealerships go?

fintail

You can arrange to pick up a US-spec (usually that means dumbed down or fluffed up) car through the manufacturer. Most Euro makes have a Euro delivery program of some kind.

It might not be a cheap holiday, but if one can afford the car, they should be able to afford the trip

It's the closest thing to buying direct that I know of, that's all.

boaz47

The president just got off of TV and pretty much promised that the US government will back all domestic car warrantees. He pretty much said GM will have to go back and hammer the UAW and that Chrysler may have to file chapter 13 but still if things continue at this rate the consumer could be in a very good position. Cars are piling up and sooner or later they will have to drop the prices on the over stocked cars. When that happens it will not matter what the company does the warrantee will be good as long as the government is good. In all honesty do we care what happens to Suzuki, Mitsubishi, or Mazda? That is Japan’s problem not ours.

We the consumer, for the first time, are in the position of superiority in dealing with the auto manufacturers. Car dealers and their sales people have treated us like sheep for far too long and it is time we got a chance to get even. If the dealers go under someone will replace them and maybe they will give us the respect and service a customer deserves. Even the best sales people have sent us in to the contract people to have them try to sell us extra “protection” that adds to our payment that we should never need. I say let them close, domestic or import and we will get a better system when the smoke clears. :P

If we hold out and hold on to our money now sooner or later the prices will have to drop. That is how a consumer protest has always worked and we have the advantage now. Maybe we will be able to look on line at overstock.com and get a car by the end of the year.

volvomax

We the consumer, for the first time, are in the position of superiority in dealing with the auto manufacturers. Car dealers and their sales people have treated us like sheep for far too long and it is time we got a chance to get even. If the dealers go under someone will replace them and maybe they will give us the respect and service a customer deserves. Even the best sales people have sent us in to the contract people to have them try to sell us extra “protection” that adds to our payment that we should never need. I say let them close, domestic or import and we will get a better system when the smoke clears.

Um, sorry no.
Remember that there are plenty of bad import stores that aren't going anywhere.
As long as people buy Honda's and Toyota's there will be dealers that will try to maximize their profits, both ethically and unethically.
If anything,with less competition it may get worse for consumers.
No one is talking about overhauling the system. Just replacing some of the players.

stever

No one is talking about overhauling the system.

Actually I think it's time for the feds to "rationalize" the dealer franchise laws. States rights is one thing, but having to deal with 50 different franchise laws must cause brain cramps in all the home offices of the automakers.

Nice how rationalize rhymes with nationalize eh? But we've had a uniform commercial code for decades and that's surely helped commerce across state lines.

Karen_S

Orphaned Car Brands and Dead Dealerships

lemko

My first new car was a black 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic with a 4.3 V-6. I'd have been OFFENDED if the salesman even suggested the Celebrity which was the Lumina of its time. :mad:

gagrice

That seems to lay out all the scenarios. I would be less likely to buy a vehicle that is being propped up by our tax dollars. Even if the government says they will cover warranty they could face issues the BO never thought of.

Example, I buy that Camaro that I could not afford when I was younger. GM liquidates and the parts suppliers along with GM. No one is going to make specific parts for a car that may have sold a couple 1000 units before ending production. The suppliers may have parts in the bins that were never used. How will they be distributed? I would not consider buying a new car from a company on the brink of disaster. It is really crazy to think our inept Government could put together a system to take care of several million cars still under warranty from GM. Located in 50 states of the Union. It is typical campaign rhetoric.

lemko

My best friend's father bought a new 1990 Lumina. I thought it was awful. Even the edges on the window glass were poorly finished. Looked like somebody took a Dynafile to the corners of the rear door glass.

gagrice

I can only remember one instance of a car salesman trying to sell me something I did not inquire about. I was test driving the Scion Xb. When I did not look interested he tried to get me to look at a whole row of FJ Cruisers they were trying to get rid of. I did have a bit of knowledge about the FJ and asked him a couple loaded questions he could not answer. I told him I had anticipated the new FJ and was sorely disappointed in what Toyota had come up with. I thanked him for his time and left. That same dealer would not email me an exact quote on the new Sequoia. I did not give them the opportunity to sell the two they had sitting for months. A dealer that does not play by my rules does not get my cash.

volvomax

Actually I think it's time for the feds to "rationalize" the dealer franchise laws. States rights is one thing, but having to deal with 50 different franchise laws must cause brain cramps in all the home offices of the automakers.

Actually, I doubt that there is that much difference between the states.
The franchise agreement between the manufacturer and the dealer is pretty much universal.

explorerx4

let's get a nice setup like SET. :P

carfanforever

You are correct. It was a 1993 Caprice bathtub. It is a great car, and I still have it.

boaz47

I don't care if they go or stay. They have cars stacking up and we aren't buying. If we hold out it they will have to cut prices as well. Nissan is off, Honda is off, Toyota is off. Subaru doesn't sell enough cars to matter. If cars sales continue to fall what can they do but discount the stock? Hyundai is offering to take back their cars if you lose your job. Tell me that isn't desperate? If we continue to keep our money and they continue to have to rent space to store their dead wood they will have to cut prices. Toyota is storing excess european bound cars in ships. How cool is that? For the first time they reported a loss. More cool isn't it? Like the story of the woman calling another dealer from the sales office. Big department stores will do that for you to make sure you are getting the best price. Or they will match the best price you can bring in. That is customer service.

Cars should sell like toasters the price should be listed in the paper and you simply clip it out and go have them drive it up to the door. Your mother should get as good a deal as you did without hours of haggling. We need car salesmen and their managers and their big manager and finally the owner to talk to like we need cancer. We only need sales representatives. They can make the deal or they can't and there is no reason the first person we talk to can't do that. If nothing else happens from this except we learn that we are the customer and they need to do whatever it takes to make us happy it will have been worth it. But I don't believe we as consumers have learned that we have the power yet. We still believe we have to have a new vehicle even if the one we have has years left in it. And we believe the dealers care about us. We should just stick to believing in the easter bunny.

lemko

A co-worker of mine has a 1991 Chevrolet Caprice LTZ and a 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic sedan. He also has a 1975 Pontiac LeMans Sport.

isellhondas

" How cool is that" ?

You seem to be rubbing your hands together with glee as you watch business suffer.

I guess this wouldn't be so funny if it were your business!

Sorry but that is pretty pathetic.

joem5

If they don't want to sell their European cars over here,or sell you what you want without adding this package and another. I say keep what you have and let the dealers cars rot. :shades:

nippononly

You do realize the dealers have little to no say over the product offered by the manufacturer in the U.S., right?

I see a lot of small family businesses going under this year, while all the ugly mega-corporate dealers will probably survive. :sick:

boaz: speaking only of the Japanese Big 3, I can say that they all reduced production by 40% or more within 60 days of the glut starting, so you can't expect there to be an excess of those for long, certainly not past the end of the year. Indeed, now would be the time to jump, and even with that said I should add that since that much of the glut is sitting at ports and not on dealer lots, individual dealers will not be especially motivated to give you better terms than they might have at the same time last year. The only difference will be that the manfacturers themselves are putting on some extra cash right now to clear the excess inventory.

mikefm58

individual dealers will not be especially motivated to give you better terms than they might have at the same time last year

I've heard from co-workers that are having that exact experience. The bottom line is that the dealers need a certain dollar amount to stay open. If they sell fewer vehicles, then they need to make more per vehicle, basic math folks.

euphonium

"sell you what you want without adding this package and another. I say keep what you have and let the dealers cars rot.

Every new Lincoln MKS we have looked at on several dealers lots all include an option called "Ultimate" for $5995. That imposition of "technology", "navigation" and a hole in the roof encourages us to keep driving our Town Car.

irismg

Cars should sell like toasters the price should be listed in the paper and you simply clip it out and go have them drive it up to the door.

Amen, brother.

Unless and until they change their old-school ways they can ALL fail as far as I'm concerned. I like the clipping coupon idea - everybody gets the car for the same price for a week, it's going to be the below sticker price, and no finding out they gave somebody else a better deal. None of this "call to find out the price" bailshirt, either.

And for heaven's sakes let's get new, well-equipped cars back below $20,000 where they belong.

carfanforever

I had a square body Caprice too. It was a 1979 model with the 350 V8. It was a very good car. I also had a mid 1970s A-body, a 1975 Buick Regal, also V8. That was a nice car too.

carfanforever

To the poster who said, "How cool is that" I agree! Hahaha, these dealers don't care about us and have been fleecing us for years, so let's not shed any tears for them, and hope something good comes out of this. Something like direct car sales to customers hahaha!

fintail

Maybe, and I am being serious here, you should just restore your old TC, or make it a "resto-mod". A full mechanical and cosmetic restoration/renovation would cost a lot less than a new car, and you would still have your comfortable familiar battlecruiser. Upgrade the engine and brakes, give it a good paint job, maybe refresh the interior...I bet you'd be pretty happy.

nippononly

Exactly.

joem5

Bruce Williams a finacial radio talk host has alway promotes the idea of driving your car into the ground.
Then, buy a 2 or 3 year old second hand car and do the same thing. :confuse:

joem5

Did they have the right idea?You make the car and this is the price no dickering.
If so? What happened?

euphonium

Seriously, our TC doesn't need any cosmetic restoration, in or out.

Never been in a crash or minor parking lot rub.

It is mechanically perfect, very quiet, and dependable.

It gets the same quality of care as my 66 Mustang GT.

Point is that when every 2009 MKS is overloaded with the 'Ultimate' package at 6k, the sticker is a turnoff. :mad:

isellhondas

What happened?

Saturn tried to elbow themselves into an already overcrowded market selling ho hum cars for full sticker.

fintail

So then why buy a new car? If you have an itch, maybe you should restore a vintage Lincoln, or buy one that's already done. There's no modern Lincoln as elegant as a MK II or a 61-63 Continental convertible. I'd take one of those over a MK S.

That's the way all cars are nowadays. You either get mandatory packages, or expensive ala carte options. The mass market stuff seems to all be produced at what some statistics types think will be the most in demand. I guess the only way around it is to special order.

lemko

The lack of an available V-8 alone is enough to turn me off an MKS. I heard you can still get a Town Car, but through special order.

carguy1978

Wow...Car dealers do what they do out of necessity. Thousands of dealers selling the same thing and customers willing to drive 100's of miles to save a couple hundred dollars. It makes no sense. Everyone wants it to be an easy process instead of the all day ordeal its turned into, well then stop negotiating. If everyone paid what the manufacture suggests, hence the Manufacture Suggested Retail Price (MSRP), noone would pay anymore than anyone else and dealers and manufactures could survive. You people treat salesman like crap and low lifes when all we are trying to do is make a living to provide for our families. We have to work 60-70 hours a week and be at work when most people are not, to make it convienent to the consumer. An average salesman makes about $40,000-$60,000 a year. How many hours do you work to make what you make? Want to trade jobs??? I don't understand. All of you people pay for insurance; get in one wreck get a ticket, your premiums go up...And you think we are crooks. Unfortunately its a necessity. You have to have insurance so you pay it. Well when you buy a vehicle salesman are a necessity. So noone walks into your job and treats you like crap why would you do it to someone you don't even know. Manufactures going under and dealerships costs thousands of people jobs. Who are you to say who cares let them go under. What if someone said to you I hope you and your family can't afford food or a home to live in. Salesman make money off proffit, no big surprise there, what you don't know is most deals now adays end up with the salesman making what they call a mini, which amounts to about $100. An average saleman sells about 15-20 cars a month you do the math. Could you live on that? Instead of crippling the market by not buying a vehicle, maybe a true american that gave a crap about the country they live in would help by actually purchasing an american product. All I'm stressing is this...STOP bad mouthing manufactures and dealers and find something else to blame. Oh and remember the next time you walk into a dealership, that guy you talk to is only trying to do what you do when you go to work, that provide for loved ones.

jb_turner

"Cars should sell like toasters the price should be listed in the paper and you simply clip it out and go have them drive it up to the door."

So what if they listed cars in the paper at MSRP? ....simply clip it out and go have them drive it up to the door?

carfanforever

I completely agree with this post.

carfanforever

I feel bad for the automakers.

I don't feel bad for the dealers.

The automakers have given me a service all these years, they make cars.

The dealers have given me nothing but headaches.

Many people feel as I do.

Dealers bought this on themselves. Don't blame us.

carfanforever

Haha, we are on the same page.

carfanforever

How about getting rid of them altogether? I don't see how it is anyone's "Right" to sell cars going over the heads of the people who actually make the darn things. I also fail to see why suggesting that the automakers be allowed to sell their products directly to we consumers sends people into "The sky is falling" type fits that would make Chicken Little blush.

dtownfb

Any financial expert worth anything will suggest the same thing. Before the era of incentives, rebates and easy credit, people didn't buy a new car every 3-5 years. Buying new makes little financial sense since cars today are much more reliable and durable.

gagrice

I also fail to see why suggesting that the automakers be allowed to sell their products directly to we consumers

How do you propose this idea would work. Are you prepared to jump on a plane to the factory and pick up your new car? And after you drive it cross country and find that some UAW guy left screws out of a hinge and the door is loose. Where do you suppose you would get warranty work done? I have flown 3000 miles to get a new vehicle. I would have been hard pressed to drive back for warranty work.

carfanforever

How do I propose this idea would work? Easy, by the automakers putting their best foot forward. If they knew they had customers coming DIRECTLY to them to purchase their wares, believe me, they would do right by us. If they didn't, that would mean lost sales, which would mean lost profits. How's that for incentive on their part?

Yes I am prepared to fly that distance and more to get my new wheels. I'm a car guy, a gearhead, a motorhead, a car nut. It goes with the territory. But why would it be necessary to even do that? I fail to understand why factory owned dealers makes some people think that that would entail the automakers not putting a sufficient amount of their (Emphasis on THEIR haha) stores in each state. Why would they not do that? Please tell me.

TThe warranty work could be done at THEIR nearest to me store. Why is that so hard to understand? It would be no different from me opening a bank account at a branch of bank x in NY, then when I move to California, conducting my same financial business at one of their California branches. Or using their branch in another state when I am on vacation there. Simple no? Why are people making this more complicated than it would have to be?

boaz47

Would you care to put your perspective up against the public's? You know what happens when the customer gets in the finance office. You know what they try to tack on to a deal already made. Why don't we want to pay MSRP? Think about it. If the cars were worth MSRP maybe we would but they haven't been worth it for years. They factor in everybody and their mother in law in the profit factor. If not why would someone sister go into a dealership and pay more than her brother did from the same salesman a day before? The sales man shoves a paper in front of you and you tell him how much you can afford. He leaves and comes back with a number much higher than what you said you could afford. The customer gets up to walk and what does he say, we all know the drill, let me take it back to my manager. Don't expect us to believe that most car salesmen are the exception. If they were they all wouldn't hate the fleet sales manager.

Someone asked what happened to Saturn? GM happened. They decided to fold the saturn dealers into the rest of the line and we got the old car salesmen back. Until then Saturn was number one in sales satisfaction tied with Lexus for a very long time. Why were saturn customers so much happier than the other car customers. We knew what the car cost up front. when that stopped and they went back to "traditional" sales practices then suddenly they were rated as well. What changed? The salesmen changed and that spoiled a good idea. No longer were you dealing with one person start to finish. Listen to what others are saying even in this forum and these are car enthusiasts. Just imagine what the non enthusiast feels. And don't tell us that is just the way it has to be. The new car parts people don't charge different prices to different customers. Service doesn't charge different prices to different customers. And don't say it is the payments. Swimming pools cost as much and for the same size pool people pay the same price.

If you personally are an exception or some others feel they are then they are simply reaping what a corrupt system has generated. You may have been one of the few. Customers don't dislike their Lowes sales people. They don't dislike their grocery store clerks. Look at national polls and see where car salesmen rate on the scale of trustworthiness. If they want to sell cars simply post the price in the paper like the do lawn mowers. We will do our shopping by researching the best price and we can make a deal as quickly as we buy a new shed. But keep adding this special warrantee and that special package and when the smoke clears people will blame the dealers for milking them every time.

Let me give you an example. Not long ago I was in the market for a travel trailer. I shopped around and found what I wanted. Yes it was about as much as a compact car maybe more like a mid sized one. I told the sales man how much I could afford to spend. With the typical warning, not more than $xxxxx.00 dollars. He said he didn't have the size and style I wanted at that price but he expected a year end sale to come up and he would call me if he could make a deal. He called and we once more discussed the $xxxxx.oo Price. I drove over, picked out the trailer and signed the paper. I came back the next day to get the trailer have someone demonstrate the features and make sure I had what I needed for my first trip. And guess what it was below the $xxxxx.00 price and the whole deal took an hour. He never had to go talk to his boss or if he did it wasn't while I was sitting in a office looking at blank walls. The whole deal was done on a visit, on the phone and a kept promise. Just like buying a shed at home depot.

dtownfb

The automakers could set up stores to sell their cars in different areas around the country because it would limit their sales if everyone had to travel to Detroit to buy a car. They could hire a few people to tell you about the products and help with handling the sale. Then they could have a couple of people to handle the transaction and help if some people need financing if they can't get approved by a bank or credit union. And I guess they could have a department to fix the car when necessary. It would be tough to drive to Detroit from York, PA to get warranty or recall work done.

Yeah dealerships are a bad idea and need to go.

I think the buying process should change but to wish harm on local businesses is ridiculous. I guess people are forgetting all the money these "hideous" companies put into the local economy.

stever

We already have car salesperson discussions over in Smart Shopper.

CONSIDERATE Salespeople & CONSIDERATE Buyers

My Salesperson Misled Me

How to find a quality salesperson

Stories from the Sales Frontlines

We don't need to reinvent the wheel here, especially when there are plenty of failing dealerships to kick around.

Meanwhile, here's a horror story for customers:

Dealership Closes; Customers Confused (WSMV)

mediapusher

fintail, that's what i've always done. and it's saved me lots of money. Let GM sink, they've proved time and time again, they can't handle it . You know what "it" is

nippononly

The only Suzuki dealer anywhere near me, which also sells Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, and Kia, is having what appears to be a desperation sale. Everything is way below sticker, it turns out they still have some new unsold 2007s on the lot, and about a million 2008s. This weekend is the fire sale, and with the writing on the wall for Chrysler Group, I wonder if we are seeing their last stand.

Perhaps they could keep Kia and add another brand or something. The town they are in is one of the ones where the Ford dealer went out of business in the last 6 months. Perhaps they could add Ford or something else.

mikefm58

Here's the part of the story that scares me.

"Gary Evans was in the process of buying a used truck from Nashville Dodge. He took it in for service to a different dealership. While it was there, the Dodge dealership closed, and he was told that he could not have his truck."

What??? You take the vehicle in for service and while it's there, they close the doors and you can't get your vehicle back?

Also, how would a person protect themself if a dealer goes bankrupt before they pay off your trade-in? What should a person do, insist that the dealer give you a check for your trade-in amount so that YOU can pay your bank off?

Reading these stories just makes things worse, makes a person want to stay away all together from any kind of car deal.

lemko

That is scary! I avoid that possibility by having my trade long since paid for before trading it.

I was just at a big Chrysler dealer in NE Philly this past Saturday. Thought maybe I could swing a sweet deal on a Charger or 300. That place reminded me of the show "King of Cars." I wonder if Towbin Dodge is still in business?

ingvar

Are you prepared to jump on a plane to the factory and pick up your new car?
Yes, I do and I'll in a future. Actually a lot of my friends flew across the pond and used European Delivery method :P Couple my co-workers flew to fitzmall dealership and saved 1-2K on there new cars

lokki

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/2008/12/22/daily9.html

This is a bit dated, but interesting. It's also interesting to read the reader's comments and see the contrast in opinions.

gagrice

The warranty work could be done at THEIR nearest to me store. Why is that so hard to understand?

So your premise is if the store was owned by the auto maker the salesmen would be easier to deal with? You think that warranty work would be handled differently if GM owned the dealership instead of Penske?

I personally think it would be worse. We have about 10 Toyota stores in San Diego. If they were all factory owned they would have a monopoly and the buyer would be screwed. Then you have said you are willing to pay whatever the MFG says is fair. I just do not do business that way.

I think you need to study human nature a bit more. A salesman working for the manufacturer will be the same person selling you a car for Penske or some other independent auto dealer. There are good and bad representatives in every field.

joem5

I agree with you also.