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Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan Hybrid

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Comments

  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    There are no real world differences in selling prices between Fusion/Milan, Escape/Mariner and so on. If anything, the Mercury models tend to sell for a bit less than the Fords, and the resale tends to be worse as well. How in the world will Mercury, already in its death throes, increase sales by raising prices?

    It ain't gonna work, or it would have been tried by now. And Ford is already giving all those upgrades to Ford (the Fusion Hybrid will be one of the quietest cars on the road), so how is the Milan going to be enough noticably quieter than that so that Joe Blow will pay more dollars for it? Mercury needs unique vehicles, not Fords with some lipstick. Ford is already up market past where Mercury used to be.
  • "On the E Coast Fitzmall and Laurel CarMax are the two that everyone 'shops' first online. The internet prices are almost always at invoice or below. Just call them and tell them which stock number you want and they'll pick you up in that car at one of the DC/Balt airports. You can sign the papers in the car and drive it away. "

    that sounds amazing. I haven't been in the market for a car for ~ 10 years. What is a comparable company on the West Coast? (I'm in N Cal)

    thanks!
  • At least the Milan Hybrid will look different, and there is a benefit of having the thing offered through even more dealerships (Linc-Merc ones) in addition to the all-Ford dealerships. Some benefit there.

    When you say the Fusion Hybrid will be one of the quietest on the road, what are you basing this on? I haven't seen any dB sound level data to show this.

    In the past, car makers have not always wanted to put enough sound deadener on because it adds weight and adds a few hundred dollars in cost. Kind of like what Lexus does to Toyota platforms, they increase noise deadening and get to charge some more to cover the buying group that tends to be a bit older and have more money to pay the $1,000 or so above the noisier base platform. That demographic that values ride smootheness and quietness over anything else has a lot of $$$$ in the marketplace and can't be ignored.
  • To illustrate how driving style can create huge variations in a hybrid's MPG, see the video at Motor Trend's real world MPG test showing huge variability in numbers based on driving style

    Watching that test should show you how important it is to always use the EPA MPG standard tests to compare car A to car B. Same test, comparable results.

    Another great video more targeted at the Fusion Hybrid is at Ford Fusion Hybrid Fuel Economy demo
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    If you don't want a Fusion, get a MKZ. It has the extra sound deadening that you're craving and possibly a softer ride, but it won't be Buick soft. There is NO sound financial reason for Ford to make 3 versions of a vehicle. The only reason they do it now is to keep the Lincoln Mercury dealers in business until they get new products.

    Maybe you should look into a nice used Grand Marquis.
  • akirby, You keep trying to say I'm looking for or "craving" something. Cut the crap. I was discussing why the Milan vs. the Fusion Hybrid should differ to appeal to all market segments. Quibble elsewhere.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,254
    As I've said before, I'm not sure Ford knows what to do with Mercury. They did this Ford clone stuff in the early 60's after Edsel's demise and had to make more changes to the 63 to differentiate it after the market spurned the earlier clones. I think I read somewhere that Ford is currently trying to pursue female buyers with Mercury, but I don't think that will be a winning strategy - who says woman want something different than guys? That has been tried before and not really proven successful. I'm not sure how Mercury can exist a whole lot longer. They have moved Lincoln downmarket to more of a Buick. It might compete with Acura and lower level Lexus, but its not really a true luxury brand today so there isn't much market between Lincoln and higher level Ford's. People talk about making Mercury a line of unique vehicles from overseas Ford. However that requires federalization to US specs and possible US plant manufacturing due to currency which makes that a potentially difficult move due to the high initial fixed costs having to be amortized over relatively low production volumes. I expect that if Ford has to go after government money like its competitors down the road (and that's probably more possible than the Ford famliy hopes), that will be the end of poor old Mercury. GM is probably cutting model lines and either Chrysler or Dodge may also end up gone in the restructuring (whether internal or chapter 11). I guess I see it like you do, Fusion versus MKZ.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    Clearly, no one can tell you anything about EPA MPG, considering how important it is to you. Cheers.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    Not that I think your "cut the crap" and "quibble elsewhere" toward Allen sound unfriendly or anything...

    I guess the Fusion's amazing fuel economy compared to the Camry or anything else out there (even though real world tests have shown that the Fusion mpg is about the same as the Camry's) makes it difficult for you to consider that other people may look at a car purchase from a number of angles. I am a Ford guy and have been since 1957, but I recognize that every car is a compromise. As much as I want to love Fords more than Chevys or Toyotas, I do understand when people buy something else. I'd love for it to be cut and dried, but for me it just isn't. Glad it is for you. It does make life easier that way.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    Berri - Ford has already announced plans to bring over several Euro models including the Focus and Transit Connect. Focus will be built here, TC will be imported at first. Not sure about the others. It's a done deal. Not sure if they will all be Fords or Mercurys though.

    Mercury is simply on the back burner while Ford gets the main brand squared away and back on solid ground. Lincoln is secondary. If they can find vehicles that make sense for Mercury but don't take away from Ford or Lincoln, it will survive. If not it won't. It's that simple. But Mercury will not be a rebadged Ford any longer.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    They will sell every Milan hybrid they can make, as is. There is no business case to make it different. Making room for the Milan between the Fusion and MKZ does nothing but hold back the Fusion. Look at the Taurus vs. the MKS. With no Sable the Taurus can go upmarket with a lot of options and the MKS picks up where it leaves off. And the Fusion already offers 2 suspensions - regular and sport.

    There is no business case for Mercury in between Ford and Lincoln. Mercury has to have different vehicles. The only reason the Milan exists is to keep the few remaining Lincoln/Mercury dealers in business until they get more Lincoln products.

    One person's desires does not constitute a viable market segment.
  • FYI, Edmund's has full pricing details up for the 2010 Fusion now with option prices. Hopefully Ford will get their site updated very soon.
  • mtnman1mtnman1 Westerville, OhioPosts: 383
    I had noticed this earlier today. The regular gas engine Fusion pricing on Edmunds does not list the SEL FWD V6 just shows SEL AWD V6. Do you know if there will be a FWD SEL? I bought a 2009 SEL FWD V6 in October which I love, but after experiencing a couple of decent snow storms in the past few weeks I've found the FWD Fusion to be absolutely terrible in the snow. If I had the chance to do it again I would have gotten the AWD. From a standing stop on the slightest incline this car would not go. My tires just spun. I have to back up and get a running start. My 2003 Sonata never had that problem. All I can figure is the tires they use on the Fusion must be very poor for all season driving.
  • The V6 is an option under the I-4 SE and SEL
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    The 3.0L V6 is optional on the FWD SE and SEL versions, standard on the AWD versions. The 3.5L V6 only comes on the Sport.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    I'm part of the Ford Direct plan and they just came out with an extra $1K bonus cash so that I can get a 09 Fusion for XPlan pricing PLUS $3500 cash back.

    That means I could get an absolutely LOADED v6SEL AWD for around $25,000 where as a loaded Hybrid will cost me $29,500. If you can't get the XPlan pricing then you'll be paying MSRP+ or around $31,500.

    So the hybrid would cost $4500 to $6500 (less tax credits) more than a V6 all wheel drive model.

    Makes me wonder why I'm stuck on hybrids. I think it's the right thing to do but as a consumer this doesn't make sense. My TCH came with large tax credits and economically I came out good on that. My HH came with no tax credits but I did get a large discount. Still it was probably a $5K to $6K premium. I just wasn't prepared to own another 14mpg SUV so I am happy with it.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    A bit of an apples-oranges comparison. You need to look at the cost of a 2010 V6 AWD Fusion v. the Hybrid. The Hybrid will still be more, but not as much as comparing an 09. Ford needs to move 09s out, as the 10s are close to arriving at dealers. Looking at what the 09 doesn't have: as good mpg as the 10, it has less sound deadening, it does not have stability control, it has less power, and cheaper interior finish. The 09 is a decent car, but it needs to be that much cheaper to sell out.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    Slight correction - the 09 models do offer stability control. One of the few things they changed for the 09.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    You are correct. Was thinking of the 08s and older. Does not change my general point though.
  • bigtbigt Posts: 413
    I am also so on the fence on this one. I have the 07 MKZ and am trying to decide on the Milan HB or the 10 MKZ. I think when I load them up they will be close in price. I love the luxury but I also bet there will be something or some reason why gas will spike back up over the next few years. When it does you will not be able to get one of these new HB's. Heck all of the hype going on make make it impossible to get one of these once they start arriving. This is all good news for Ford!
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    I also bet there will be something or some reason why gas will spike back up over the next few years.

    And it won't take much. It could be something as big as the world coming out of ressession and needing gasoline or it could be middle east unrest. I'm hoping for the first but betting on the second as a sure thing.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    I used to have a Prius, and I don't miss it. Let me put it straight, you cannot compare a Prius to a Fusion, you can compare a Camry to a Fusion, but not a Prius. The Prius is in a class by itself, at least until Honda has the Insight on the road. For the Prius, handling, interior room, power, conveniences are all below the midsize cars like the Camry and Fusion. I now own a Camry Hybrid, I like the hybrid tech, but did not like the Prius. If Ford can get these out to the dealers in a decent time frame and can get the price to be competitive to the Camry H, then you will see a lot of these being sold. The only advantage a Prius has as far as room is rear leg room, and cargo space, not enough front leg room and not enough width for a third back seat passenger, where the Camry and Fusion do have the advantage. So far I have not had any problem with trunk space in the Camry, granted it is small compared to the hatchback in the Prius, but it still holds plenty of stuff. If I need more room than that I will drive my Veracruz, or F350 Dually.

    The Prius is ok for the most part, but for a family with 3 kids, it just doesn't cut it, the Camry or Fusion does.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    I used to have a Prius, and I don't miss it

    The thoughts of the Prius ownership and 50mpg is interesting but I found the Camry Hybrid to be overall a very nice package and comfortable. The new Prius interest will make me check it out and the FFE is of interest too. I can get discounts on the FFE so that is a plus. I'll be in the market anywhere between now and November when my lease runs out.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I have a Prius but if I had a young family again it would be the Camry or Fusion hybrids.

    Ford will be severely limited in getting these to the general population due to battery supply constraints. 25000 units is the annual production goal. This is about 1 vehcle per dealer every 60 days. Or IOW the larger stores will get several and the smaller stores will get none. In addition unfortunately unless things pick up all vehicles above $25000 are going to be sitting for a good long time.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    Hey Bob, I'm hoping that I have my mind made up by the time dealers are hungry. I don't want to pay a premium on a Toyota with no tax credit, but am still on the fence about the FFH. Supposedly I can get the FFH at the XPlan price but if the dealer doesn't participate or even have the ability to get one like I would want then it doesn't matter.

    Will the 2010 TCH have the next generation hybrid system?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    At the 5 yr anniversary in 2012 I'd estimate that the TCH gets updated. Lots will be happening at that time frame.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    Then it looks like a 2010 Prius for highest FE or a FFE for the tax credits may be in my furture.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,931
    a dealer can choose to accept x plan or not.
    i doubt if any dealer will be doing that for quite a while.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    i doubt if any dealer will be doing that for quite a while.

    I will probably push that question. I have a Ford dealer that has appreciated the repeat business. Since it will be a small market for them they may rather take the discount on one car than lose many sales down the road. If they could get a hundred then they may be greedy, but if they only get three or four a year then it's not really a money maker for them.

    I'm always willing to walk on a deal and the salespeople I have worked with know I won't come back. Ever.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    What is a FFE?
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